Jersey Boy

This was correct doctrine until D&C 138 was added to the Doctrine and Covenants. Joseph Fielding Smith died before D&C 138 was added to the Standard Works. Here’s what it says... 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel. 32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets. 33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, 34 And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 35 And so it was made known among the dead, both small and great, the unrighteous as well as the faithful, that redemption had been wrought through the sacrifice of the Son of God upon the cross. (D&C 138) And again... 57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead. 58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God, 59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions (clearly a reference to the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom who suffer for their sins in the spirit prison) and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation. (D&C 138)

You are incorrect. The reason why it says they are liars and whoremongers instead of saying that they were these things is because at the time they are suffering the wrath of God on the earth, and then at the time they are cast into the spirit prison, they actually still are liars and whoremongers in the present tense. It isn’t until they spend sufficient time suffering for their sins in the spirit prison, and then go on to embrace the gospel message after being humbled by their sufferings, that it can rightly be said that they were liars and whoremongers. They ARE guilty of being liars and whoremongers until their sufferings in the spirit prison come to an end. It’s only after Christ delivers them from their sufferings and remits their sins that it can rightly be said that they WERE at one time liars and whoremongers. Please cooperate, otherwise I’m going to call it quits trying to dialogue with you. Instead of beating around the bush, please explain to me why in verse it 106 says that the individuals spoken of in verses 103 to 105 “are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, UNTIL the fulness of times”? Why is the word “until” used if they are the sons of perdition who are supposed to suffer forever?

So now you acknowledge verse 106 is speaking of those in verse 103. Good, now we’re getting somewhere! The reason why we know they repent is because while the suffering of the sons of perdition never comes to an end, those in verses 103 through verse 106 suffer only “UNTIL” the arrival at that point in time known as... “the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work.” The reason why the sufferings of those in verses 103 to 106 continue for only a limited period of time is because they are numbered among those who have been “subdued” by the salvative work of Christ while they were consigned to the spirit prison. While in the spirit prison, these formerly wicked and rebellious souls finally awake from the sleep of death. Remember, nowhere in the standard works does it say that the sons of perdition will suffer only for a limited period of time. Meanwhile, verse 106 says those spoken of in verses 103 to 106 will only have to suffer “UNTIL” the arrival of “the fulness of times.” Look up the word “until” in the dictionary and see what you find?

Correct. I’ll now discuss just one of the areas where Rob has made a doctrinal error: Rob misreads D&C 76, verse 103, mistakenly believing the liars and whoremongers spoken of in that verse are going to end up as sons of perdition in outer darkness forever, and he makes this mistake because he fails to realize that the succeeding verses explain that the wicked individuals spoken of in verse 103 are exposed to a divine redemptive process — I.e. the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God — designed by the God of love to eventually bring such rebellious people down into the depths of humility and to eventual sincere repentance. By suffering the wrath of God on earth, and thereafter being thrust into hell (the spirit prison) where the wicked individuals of verse 103 suffer for their own sins without mitigation, they learn mercy cannot quench divine justice without coming unto God. The agonizing experience of suffering for their own sins will continue until it’s deemed that the time is right for them to be taught the gospel of Christ by authorized and empowered missionaries who are sent from paradise carrying the message of God’s love and mercy. The acute spiritual and emotional suffering endured in the spirit prison will eventually cause the vast majority these formerly wicked and rebellious souls to feel real remorse and deep regret for their ungodliness, which manifestations of godly sorrow are calculated to cause the hard-to-reach to realize they desperately need the Savior and the blessings his infinite and eternal atonement if they are to ever going to have a hope of obtaining relief suffering, peace of conscience and genuine happiness. After these formerly wicked and rebellious souls accept Christ and receive his salvation, they are blessed to enter the Telestial Kingdom of post-resurrection glory, and they are thus relegated because they were unwise and had to be compelled to be humble before they were able to develop an active moral conscience and thereby sincerely repent. 15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not. 16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; 17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; 18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink— 19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men. 20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit. (D&C 19)

So you still refuse to believe that individuals spoken of in D&C 76 verse 106, (those whose sufferings for sin eventually come to an end with the arrival of the “the fulness of times”) are not the same individuals spoken of in verse 103? Let’s us see... 103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie. 104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. 105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. 106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; (D&C 76) I have 2 very reasonable and logical questions for you: 1) Since the above four quoted verses repeat the phrase “these are they” four consecutive times, where is the break in the repeating narrative between verse 103 and verse 106 that lets us know the individuals spoken of in verse 106 are not the same individuals spoken of in verse 103? 2) If the individuals spoken of in verse 106 are not the same individuals spoken of in verse 103, then who are they?

I made no assumption. Didn’t I preface that remark by saying D&C 76 plainly indicates it is not to be taken as complete presentation of the plan of salvation and that many of the deeper doctrines pertaining to the salvation of the children of men were deliberately left out that revelation? All I meant to say is that the implications of the ministering from higher kingdoms to lower kingdoms was something interesting to think about. That being said, are you aware of the fact that many of the early leaders of the Church believed those in the lower kingdoms of glory would eventually be able to obtain a celestial glory? Here is just one of the many examples I could cite: “It is reasonable to believe, in the absence of direct revelation by which alone absolute knowledge of the matter could be acquired, that, in accordance with God’s plan of eternal progression, advancement from grade to grade within any kingdom, and from kingdom to kingdom, will be provided for. But if the recipients of a lower glory be enabled to advance, surely the intelligences of higher rank will not be stopped in their progress; and thus we may conclude, that degrees and grades will ever characterize the kingdoms of our God. Eternity is progressive; perfection is relative; the essential feature of God’s living purpose is its associated power of eternal increase.” (James E Talmage, Articles of Faith, first edition) But I will say I have an open mind on the subject and, unlike some, I have not made up my mind on the subject one way or the other, and will not until the rest of what was withheld from D&C 76 is finally revealed. But how much do you want to bet that when the missing information is finally revealed there are going to be a lot of shocking surprises? And if it turns out that those in the lower kingdoms can eventually obtain a celestial glory, I will be absolutely delighted. But if it turns out that there is no way for those in the lower kingdoms of glory to eventually progress to a higher kingdom of glory, I will be content as long as I know that those in the lower kingdoms can continue to progress in some way and that, most importantly, they are at peace and happy.

Because the children of God have agency, there are always going to be varying degrees of faith of and faithfulness found in response to the will of God. This is why though each one of us is born equally innocent as babes, some of us are foreordained to to become rulers in the kingdom of God on earth — the prophet Abraham being a prime example of such a man — because through the exercise of their own agency some became those whom God himself singles out as being particularly noble and great in the pre-earth life. Therefore, forgiveness does not necessarily equate with spiritual greatness. 22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; 23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born. (Abraham 3) The corollary to the above gospel principle is that there are also going to be other sons and daughters of God in the pre-earth life who proved to be less noble and less great than the ones whom God foreordained to become the rulers of his earthly kingdom. Again, there is a difference between being forgiven and being found to be fully faithful and true. In the final judgemen it isn’t going to be one side fits all. The preexistence proves we do not all necessarily turn out to be the same just because we are all equally innocent before God.

Thanks for the clarification. We are, by and large, in agreement. But one thing to keep in mind is that the revelations in D&C 76 and 138 present us with an incomplete picture of the plan of salvation, for these sections do not present a definitive “final say” on the subject. There is much more that needs to come forth before we can finally have a complete picture. 114 But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion; 115 Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter; (D&C 76) One thing we already can wonder about, though, is why it is that those who are in the lower kingdoms of glory are ministered to and taught by messengers from higher kingdoms of glory? Why have ministers of celestial glory enter the terrestrial world and instruct it’s inhabitants if the light of the celestial world is going to forever be unapproachable for those who dwell in terrestrial glory?

If I am understanding you correctly (correct me if I’m wrong), it appears you believe that the wicked and ungodly on earth will, for the most part, continue to remain that way after death even though D&C 138 says the following... 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel. 32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets. 33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, 34 And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 35 And so it was made known among the dead, both small and great, the unrighteous as well as the faithful, that redemption had been wrought through the sacrifice of the Son of God upon the cross. Why bother with all the above if change for the better after death is nigh unto impossible? Do you understand that after death the wicked are thrust into hell (the spirit prison) where they are caused to suffer for their own sins and follies, much as Alma the younger did, and that this dreadful experience of intense spiritual and emotional agony provides great incentive for the wicked to want to come unto Christ and repent that their sufferings might come to an end? Again, sorry if I’m misunderstanding your position.

Those who enter into the telestial kingdom, where their glories differ as do the stars of heaven in their magnitude, and who are innumerable as the sands of the seashore, are the ungodly, the filthy who suffer the wrath of God on the earth, who are thrust down to hell where they will be required to pay the uttermost farthing before their redemption comes. These are they who receive not the gospel of Christ and consequently could not deny the Holy Spirit while living on the earth. They have no part in the first resurrection and are not redeemed from the devil and his angels until the last resurrection, because of their wicked lives and their evil deeds. Nevertheless, even these are heirs of salvation, but before they are redeemed (forgiven and resurrected into a kingdom of glory ) and enter into their kingdom, they must repent of their sins, AND RECEIVE THE GOSPEL, and bow the knee, and acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Redeemer of the world (I.e.their redeemer) “Doctrines of Salvation,” Apostle Joseph Fielding Smith

Have you ever intensively studied and made a serious attempt to understand Doctrine and Covenants 138?

It seems to me his understanding concerning those who qualify to inherit the celestial kingdom sounds a lot like what was offered as the substitute plan of salvation that was rejected in the council in heaven. In the plan of salvation that was rejected by the Father, everyone gets saved with an equal degree of glory whether or not they are worthy of inheriting a celestial glory, whether or not they can even appreciate and comprehend possessing a celestial glory, and whether or not they even have a sincere desire and the requisite faith to inherit a celestial glory.

Apostle Jeffrey R Holland echoed the teachings of apostles James E Talmage and Bruce R McConkie concerning the recurring Gethsemanic suffering the Savior was called upon to endure while nailed to Calvary’s cross in his April 2009 General Conference talk titled “None Were With Him.” Here are a portion of his words: Thus, of divine necessity, the supporting circle around Jesus gets smaller and smaller and smaller, giving significance to Matthew’s words: “All the disciples fled.” Peter stayed near enough to be recognized and confronted. John stood at the foot of the cross with Jesus’s mother. Especially and always the blessed women in the Savior’s life stayed as close to Him as they could. But essentially His lonely journey back to His Father continued without comfort or companionship. Now I speak very carefully, even reverently, of what may have been the most difficult moment in all of this solitary journey to Atonement. I speak of those final moments for which Jesus must have been prepared intellectually and physically but which He may not have fully anticipated emotionally and spiritually—that concluding descent into the paralyzing despair of divine withdrawal when He cries in ultimate loneliness, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”16 The loss of mortal support He had anticipated, but apparently He had not comprehended this. Had He not said to His disciples, “Behold, the hour … is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me” and “The Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him”?17 With all the conviction of my soul I testify that He did please His Father perfectly and that a perfect Father did not forsake His Son in that hour. Indeed, it is my personal belief that in all of Christ’s mortal ministry the Father may never have been closer to His Son than in these agonizing final moments of suffering. Nevertheless, that the supreme sacrifice of His Son might be as complete as it was voluntary and solitary, the Father briefly withdrew from Jesus the comfort of His Spirit, the support of His personal presence. It was required, indeed it was central to the significance of the Atonement, that this perfect Son who had never spoken ill nor done wrong nor touched an unclean thing had to know how the rest of humankind—us, all of us—would feel when we did commit such sins. For His Atonement to be infinite and eternal, He had to feel what it was like to die not only physically but spiritually, to sense what it was like to have the divine Spirit withdraw, leaving one feeling totally, abjectly, hopelessly alone. (Jeffrey R Holland, ‘None Were With Him,’ April 2009)

The “day of this life” spoken of by Alma includes the time spirits spend in the spirit world after death of the body and will not come to an end until the time of the last resurrection and the final judgement. The reason why we know this to be true is because the Apostle Peter tells us the gospel of Christ was preached to the wicked spirits who were incarcerated in the spirit prison because they had previously rebelled against the gospel while they were living on earth during the days of Noah. Peter makes it known that God considers the spirit world conversions of formerly rebellious souls to be as valid as if they had occurred while they were dwelling on the face of the earth in the flesh. This is why Peter testifies that after the spirits of the departed dead receive the gospel in the spirit prison they are “judged according to men in the flesh” (I.e. as if they are still living in the flesh) because they have made the conscious decision to accept the gospel and live according to God’s commandments while dwelling as spirits in the realm of the departed dead. As the following verses of scripture also make perfectly clear, the gospel is meant for ALL the spirits of the departed dead, not just for those spirits who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel message while dwelling in the flesh... 30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to ALL the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead. 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord (i.e. the day of this life when it is still possible to believe in the gospel of Christ and repent) and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto ALL who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel. 32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, OR IN TRANSGRESSION, HAVING REJECTED THE PROPHETS (!!!). 33 These (including the above category of those who rejected the prophets while they were in the flesh) were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands... (D&C 138) As long as there is even just one legally empowered spirit in the spirit world who is authorized to preach the gospel of Christ to the spirits of the departed dead, and as long as there are still a handful of mortals on earth who can perform authorized vicarious saving ordinances for the dead in the temples of God, in a very real legal sense — and in the eyes of God — the “day of this life” will not have come to an end. As long as the formerly rebellious spirits are endowed with the right to choose and have sufficient humility and faith to embrace the gospel — and as long as there are mortals on earth who are still able to perform and receive vicarious saving ordinances in behalf of the departed dead — “the day of this life” (I.e. the day when there is still time remaining to accept Christ and receive God’s salvation) will not have come to an end. The day of this life, meaning mortality, which includes the time we spend in the spirit world after death, will not come to end until very the last soul has been resurrected and is on way to the final judgement. Simply put, “the day of this life” refers to the fallen state. And, most assuredly, we are still in the fallen state after death.

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.

Can you cite for me just one post-D&C 76 quote from any LDS Church General Authority, past or present, in which the Church leader teaches that there are not three post-resurrection degrees of heavenly glory?

Then how do you account for the plain and unambiguous doctrinal declarations in D&C 76 that there are three discrete heavenly kingdoms of glory that saved humanity will inherit after the final judgement? The 76th section teaches us that the Celestial glory can be likened to the brightness of the sun, the Terrestrial glory can be likened to the reflected brightness of the moon, and the Telestial glory can be likened to the brightness of the distant stars? Do you reject the teachings of D&C 76 pertaining to these three kingdoms of glory? It’s also plainly obvious that in LDS theology there are two kinds of Telestial kingdoms, one of them being the dwelling place of fallen premillennial mortal mankind and the other being the dwelling place of those saved resurrected human beings who are no able to inherit nor appreciate an everlasting existence in either the Celestial or Terrestrial kingdoms of glory. This is very basic and easy to understand LDS doctrine and I’m somewhat mystified that there seem to be members of the Church who either don’t believe in the three degrees of post-resurrected glory or have somehow missed it.

Your mistake is precipitated by the fact that the whoremongers and liars spoken of in Revelation never repent, while the whoremongers and liars spoken of in D&C do eventually repent, and for this reason they suffer only UNTIL the time that Christ has perfected his work. You’re assuming the the whoremongers and liars in Revelation are in precisely the same category as those spoken of in D&C 76 who do eventually repent and are relieved of their sufferings, Because of the similarities of language and terminology in the two verses, the one verse being from Revelation and the other from D&C 76, you’ve incorrectly assumed they are both speaking of people who are in the exact same category — but they are not. The Book of Revelation tells us the whoremomhers and liars referred to there do suffer forever; meanwhile the sufferings of the liars and whoremomgers spoken of in D&C 76 do eventually come to an end. While it’s understandable why you made an incorrect assumption because of linguistic similarities, nevertheless, you did make an incorrect assumption. This is why it’s never a good idea to seize scripture verses out of context.

There’s only one way your unorthodox ideas can be made to harmonize with the Doctrine & Covenants and that’s only if the two lower kingdoms of glory are somehow encompassed within the celestial kingdom. In other words, if you’re right the Celestial Kingdom will have one class of saved people dwelling within it who will only be able to enjoy the immediate presence of the Son but not be able to enjoy the presence of the Father (those of the terrestrial glory); and there will also be those dwelling there who will not have the opportunity enjoy the immediate presence of either the Son or the Father, but will instead be ministered to by the Holy Spirt and by beings of a terrestrial degree glory. If this is so, then that means we’re right back where we started from with saved beings of three different degrees of glory, the only difference being that in some sort of technical sense they all coexist as vastly unequal citizens within one celestial kingdom. On another point, there is every reason to believe those spoken of in verse 103 will eventually be saved because of what’s clearly set forth in verse 107. It reads... 106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, UNTIL the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; (D&C 107) The above verse plainly indicates that the wicked in verse 103, those who are cast into hell (the spirit prison), will suffer in hell for only a limited period time, and that the time of the end of their sufferings will arrive at the time when Christ shall have perfected his work. This is why we are told they indeed will suffer, but only UNTIL the time Christ has successfully subdued his enemies. Meanwhile, we know that the sons of perdition will continue to suffer forever because there has never been a promise given to the effect that those consigned to outer darkness will suffer only until the arrival of a certain period in time. The reason why the sons of perdition continue to suffer without relief is because they are the only ones whom Christ is unable to subdue in a spirit of repentance, and this because they cannot be forced to be saved against their will.

You fail to understand that in D&C 76 the wicked mentioned in verse 103 are subjected to an ongoing salvative process that starts will a sinful state of alienation from God on earth, followed by being thrust into hell (the spirit prison) at the time of death. After being thrust into hell (NOT THE TELESTIAL KINGDOM) these same sinners are subjected to what is described as “the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God;” a place wherein those so consigned suffer for their sins.until they are subdued to the divine will by God’s tough love. After being subdued to God by being allowed to suffer the consequences for their own sins, they are finally forgiven because they sincerely bow the knee to the God the Father and confess to him that Jesus Christ is their Christ and Savior. They are then resurrected and inherit a dominion in God’s Telestial Kingdom of heavenly GLORY. The only way you can be correct is if the Telestial Kingdom and the outer darkness of the everlasting hell wherein the sons of perdition dwell are one and the same place. They are not... 83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit. 84 These are they who are thrust down to hell. (sound familiar?) 85 These are they who shall not be redeemed (meaning they WILL eventually be redeemed) from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work. 86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial; 87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial. 88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation. 89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding; (D&C 76) As anyone can see, the Telestial Kingdom is not at all like hell, yet D&C 76 clearly tells us the individuals spoken of in verse 103 WILL inherit the Telestial Kingdom. I’m quite sure there isn’t a single General Authority who would agree that the Telestial Kingdom and the Hell of the sons of perdition are one and the same.

D&C 76 and D&C 138 both make it quite clear that at the time of death the unrepentant wicked, such as the whoremongers, sorcerers, adulterers and lovers of lies spoken of in verse 103, are consigned to dwell in the spirit prison (hell). While in the spirit prison, the wicked who have not yet committed the sin unpardonable are visited by messengers of light from paradise , ministering angels who continue the work of bringing sinful souls unto Christ and repentance in the world of departed spirits. The wicked spirits in the spirit prison who come unto Christ and repent will eventually inherit a telestial GLORY in the Telestial Kingdom. D&C 138 makes this very plain... 30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead. 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repentof their sins and receive the gospel. 32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets. (D&C 138) The sins of whoremongering, sorcery, adultery and lying are not in the same category as the unpardonable sin, that ultimate sin for which there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come. Whoremongering, sorcery, adultry and lying are all forgivable for those who come unto Christ and sincerely repent. Those who have not committed the unpardonable sin are consigned to suffer in ‘the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God’ until they are subdued through God’s tough love and learn the hard lesson that “wickedness never was happiness,” and that Christ is the only way to true joy and peace. Eventually, all but those who have committed the unpardonable sin will be delivered from the spirit prison, resurrected and given an inheritance in the Telestial Kingdom of GLORY. Remember, there is no glory of God in the realm outer darkness, but there is a measure of the God’s glory in the Telestial Kingdom. Your mistake has its origin in the fact that you fail to realize all sins, except for the unpardonable sin, are forgiveable.

As Wade says, you are in error because you’ve taken verse 103 out of context. I will now quote the verse in proper context and show you why you are in error: 103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie. Because you did not read and analyze the verses following 103 you’ve made a mistake, thinking the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom will enter the Telestial Kingdom as unrepentant liars, sorcerers, whoremongers and lovers & makers of lies — they will not, as you will soon realize. 104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. As a consequence of their sinful behavior, those spoken of in verse 103 are deprived God’s blessings on earth. 105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. As a consequence of their sinfulness, the people spoken of in verse 103 are cursed of God while dwelling on the earth. 106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; Because of their sinfulness and failure to come unto Christ and repent, these people are cast into hell where they are punished for their sins and suffer the wrath of Almighty God UNTIL the appointed time when Christ shall have finally subdued all his enemies under his feet. 107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God. As a consequence of their experience of suffering for their sins in hell, the place where those unrepentant sinners who have not committed the unpardonable sin are exposed to the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God, the people spoken of in verse 103 will eventually be humbled (subdued) and in sincere repentance come unto Christ and repent of their sins. This is why this verse says Christ will be able to deliver up the kingdom to his Father spotless, for in the end all but the sons of perdition will be subdued and find forgiveness through the atoning power of Christ. 108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever. Because he will have fulfilled the Father’s will by successfully saving all of Father’s children, with the exception of the implacably hardened and totally unrepentant sons of perdition, Christ will be crowned as the victorious Savior of all mankind. 109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore; A very large portion of the Father’s children will, in the resurrection, inherit the Telestial Kingdom of of GLORY (remember, those who inhabit the realm of outer darkness will inherit no kingdom glory in the resurrection). 110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever; After enduring the process verse 107 calls the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God, the formerly unrepentant sinners spoken of in verse 103 will eventually believe, repent (see D&C 138) and humbly worship God the Father, confessing by the power of the Spirit that Jesus Christ is the one who saved them. 111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared; Rather than ending up as resurrected sons of perdition who will dwell forever in outer darkness, the formerly unrepentant individuals spoken of in verse 103 will eventually inherit a dominion of glory in one of the Fathers many heavenly mansions.

Thank you!