huma17

If you can't rely on the NT, then what makes you think you can rely on the OT? If Paul was a fraud, then why can't Moses be one as well? Don't you see where your heading? How will you be able to rely on anything for truth regarding the Gospel, save science and Man....?

Strange post...for, as philosophy is concerned, life is not described accordingly by faith, but rather by reason and logic.Also, stating that I do not know anything based upon my assertion of a specific knowledge seems somewhat contradictory. Remember, faith leads to truth, and once you have that truth, you must then rely on that. To deny the HG after having received truth - which came about through faith - is an unpardonable sin. Denying truth based soley upon faith does not hold the same consequences. I still by faith in my life, but not for all things. What I was discussing with you, was based upon my knowledge - which came by faith. Lastly, belittling someone always shows that the one doing the belittling is really the one who lacks...

Your welcome, yet I'm not quite sure how to take your response.You see, I have an actual knowledge of the Restored Gospel, so I know it is led by the Lord through modern revelation, so, in essence, we could go without scripture and still be OK. The greatest tool to teaching people the Gospel is the BoM, however, so that would make things harder. However, to someone who doesn't have the knowledge that many saints do, it could appear as if they are following blindly, or are so convinced that they would do whatever their leader says. That, though, is just not the case. The Lord will not allow his mouthpeice to lead us astray, and JS, himself, told the saints to seek knowledge of truth that a prophet speaks of for themselves. Now, if Pres. Hinckley stated that the BoM was false, that would be different (and that's not what was asked). In that case, I would not follow it at all, and if the Lord didn't destroy him, then I would continue on with what I knew to be true, and wait for things to get sorted out. My response was to humor the question, not due to dedication - I know what I know, and I wish all could now. That knowledge - not belief, hope, or faith - dictates my actions, and how I would respond to things to come. If you want to compare the saints to followers of Waco or Jonestown, you need only look at the fruit of the tree they follow. Pres. Hinckley - nor any prior prophet, speaking for the Lord - has required the saints to kill themselves or others, separte themselves completely from society or the world, nor asked them to follow the prophet alone, and nobody else - including the Lord - without question. Never with those associated with those groups, did their leader ask them to find out for themselves if what was being taught was true or not, they were told/commanded to do whatever they said - an absolute monarchy. Within the LDS church, the only absolute lies with the Savior.

This, I do believe...if not the outside, then definately the inside! (of course, though, only if they are trolling againt us...if we are trolling their websites, then we look like angels ). Very funny, by the way.

Like you and me!?...no!.....it can't be...

Do they want to baptize? Probably, but hopefully they are just excited to teach someone the Gospel. Advice - talk to them a bit after church, ask some questions, and see where thier intentions really are. If they don't give you answers, or give you quick ones, then move quickly on to D. #1, then you might just want to wait until some other missionaries come to town. If they seem sincere, and answer your questions as honestly as they can - taking time to answer correctly, then tell them you just need to take things slowly, and they should understand.

How much would I care? Well, I would care enough to buy a simpathy card for the Hinckley family, because I would know that the prophet was ready to step to the other side. But, to seriously humor your question, I would pray to know if that was indeed from the Lord. If it wasn't, then I would simply wait for Pres. Hinkley to be removed by the Lord. If is was coming from the Lord, then I would have to accept it. It wouldn't change the fact that the BoM came from the Lord, and what was found within was still true. Somehow the Lord would have found a reason/way for the members to be OK without it - the Restored Gospel has already been proven to be true, so that wouldn't change either. It would be like the math book that taught you addition and subtraction going out of use - it still teaches true, and the principles of math would still be true as well. Now, you didn't say anything about non-members using the BoM, so I would assume it would still be used to teach and bring those seeking the truth and knowledge of the fulness of the Gospel.

Since you're so capable of making sweeping judgment calls based on my personal opinion of a theatrical picture, I asssume that you're either a bad mind reader, or a poor judge of character. Perhaps you missed the part of the post you quoted of mine, which reads: 'It appears...".To me, at least, I find someone who is so critical of an entertainment piece (that everyone I know, myself included, thought was well done), that perhaps it takes alot for them to be satisfied.

Sad, sad, sad. Tell me, was this the maturity level you were refering to? Truly, what a pathetic and childish response...

john d- I'm sorry that you felt the way you did - that nobody cared enough to defend your stance for a better board - I understand your frustration. It does seem somewhat strange that members spoke up in this thread, but not the other (me included). Now, I can't speak for anyone else, but I would like to explain why I wasn't there for the previous thread. I don't frequent this board very often anymore, and I can go over a month, or so, without coming here. When I do come, I will respond to something that peaks my interest. I wish I had visited earlier, so that perhaps I would have read the thread in question. I can tell you, though, that had I seen what you are talking about, I would definately have spoken up. If you're unsure as to whether I am speaking truthfully or not, you can read through my posts - it will clearly show that I do not shy away from things I think are in error. I tend to go the FAIR regularly, but come back here because it was my first pro-LDS board. I was born to religious MB's when I stumbled upon the exmo board. I loved going there - I was addicted! After awhile, though, I wanted to go to some boards that were pro-LDS, and I found this place first (getting banned from the exmo board more than once helped push me to look for something else - while I love to debate, I have realized that most people on the exmo board do not like to be challenged). Anyway, you can always try FAIR (if you haven't already), because the moderators there are quick to rid the board of those who are being rude and obnoxious (they do, however, allow alot of exmos and nevermos to state their opinions - as long as it isn't disrespectful).

Tell me then, English professor, what is the standard level of writing for those on a message board responding in a thread about 'Star Wars'?

Sub-standard, huh? You probably think most things are that way then, since the movie was great entertainment. As for sub-standard religion, I assume you're refering to all those that are an abomination in the sight of the Lord... No, I been around quite a bit actually. I hear people on this thread getting waaaaaaaaaaay too deep about a movie meant for entertainment, it's silly trying to relate it to religion and/or politics. Remember, these books were written decades before any Bush was in office - Lucas was following the plots he wrote about then, not trying to send a message to the President, or anyone else (religion included).By the way, I hate to break it to you, but I'm not a 'kid'. The 17 in my name has absolutely nothing to do with my age. I do find it humurous, though, that you felt the need to belittle someone based on your perceptions of their age...

30!!I can't wait until I'm 80! Actually, I do NOT want to live that long in the first place. Of course, though, I would rather be 80 than my current age!

Exactly!!It appears as if he couldn't be satisfied with ANYTHING! He is the ONLY person that I have heard say anything remotely negative about 'Revenge of the Sith'!

Stay, because the more people there are on this board to show them the errors of their thinking, the better for me...

I didn't get the sense that he was 'freaking out' over you, but rather felt that he might not be getting the support he wants in keeping this board clean. He seems to be asking if members of this board want him to continue trying to prevent vulgarity and the like - which I think he should.

Thank-you for the apology. I guess I can understand how I was mis-understood, I still need to work on being more clear in my conversations still.

I never said that I lost my mother at an early age - I was in my 20's. My dad remarried a couple years ago - he's almost seventy. My siblings who have issue with this are adults who have issues, period. I'm not confused about sealings or marriage, just pointing out that we don't know what's going to happen - I'm fine with not knowing. And no, I'm not quite young - the '17' after huma has nothing to do with my age. Thanks for the concern about my mother, though. I was not saddened by it, because I'm OK with death. I miss her, but I was happy to see her go to a better place - no more pain.

It's not your place to say if I'm ready for marriage or not...you don't know me. As I have stated - I didn't/don't have issues with the things I discussed - it was a discussion. I'm far from perfect, but why would you assume that I need to build my life? I had an issue with answers to prayer - certain prayers that is.

You have a serious problem buddy. you need to sort yourself out. I'm not just talking about religion but your lif in general. I'm going to try to hold my tongue here... This is the second board you have attacked me in such a manner, and I don't want to have that kind of exchange with you. Like I said to Curvette, the things I discussed with Amillia don't need 'sorting out' for me - I don't have issue with them. I'm not sure what you are saying here - is it aimed soley at me (which I assume it is), or is it in general? Besides, I wasn't complaining about those issues, I started this thread because of frustration - I'm OK with it, though. I wasn't expecting anyone to help me overcome my 'issues', especially not my wife - I was looking for some advice on prayer - which I have received. As to 'before you get married' - non issue. Who said anything about an inappropriate partner? Besides, are women exempt from these 'mistakes'? I wasn't 'wallowing' in anything - I have already moved on in my thinking since I started this thread...I don't know why you see it this way?

I think not worrying about marriage is a non issue for me... Also, the points/questions that I brought up to Amillia do not worry or stress me - I'm perfectly OK with not knowing them. I was merely throwing them out there, so one could see that we really don't know what's going to happen after this life - I'm not struggling with these issues.

Yes, I have understood eternity to mean a specific amount of time. When it talks about from eternity to eternity, it kind of gives you a hint. Or, when it talks about the eternitie(s) - plural.Still, 5-6 billion years is a long time to be with someone that isn't the best for you.

Amillia-Thanks for the advice - it makes alot of sense. The one thing that I'm starting to figure out, though, is that we really have no idea what life will be like after this. We assume, based upon the knowledge that we have, or are given, but I'm starting to see that they will only apply to this life. For instance, on whom to marry. We are commanded to find someone to marry - and yes, I have heard, and now feel, that there could be many - then be sealed to them for all time and eternity. Well, what actually does that mean? If we can be just as happy with someone else, or even happier maybe, then why the whole 'time and eternity' thing? I mean, think about it. Out of all the spirits that have graced this earth in the past, all that are here now, and all that are still to come, you mean to tell me that out of the few hundred - maybe - people we have incountered as a possible mate (and I mean actually had the chance to have a relationship with), we found the one we can be the most happy and compatible with? That's not even mentioning all the other worlds that the Lord has created and populated, or any other dominions that might be out there...we will live forever, and to think of all the spirits that will be created, we found the BEST match?? I don't think so. And, again, why the whole time and eternity thing? Is it simply for obedience? When a couple has children and aren't sealed to them, then later divorce, when one remarries and gets sealed to the new spouse along with the children from the first marriage, what does it mean? Does it mean that the other parent isn't really their parent anymore, because they aren't sealed to them? Does that mean that in the next life, that they won't be able to see, or have a relationship, with those children whenever they want - because they aren't sealed?? I don't think we really know what to be sealed really means. I also don't think that what we think/know now, will have much import in the next life. Again, I refer to marriage. JS married women who were married to other men, because the Lord told him - as well as the women - that it was the way it was to be. Does that mean that our current, or future, spouse might not even be the one we will be with after this life? Is this all just a test? What if I had a relationship with someone in the pre-existence, and we knew that we wanted to be together forever, but the Lord knew that we could not grow to our potential in this life, or be tested and overcome in the ways that we needed to be, if we were together in this life. So, we agreed that we would come down here and not be with each other - that we would go through our mortal existence separate - with other people to have relationships with that would give us the greatest opportunities to grow. Now, while on earth, we each got married for 'eternity' with someone else, and we were faithful throughout our existence. Well, what happens after this? When we finish, and go back, won't we still want to be together, because we knew that this was what was going to happen, and now that the veil is lifted, we know what we knew then. What then happens to the marriages that we had in mortal life, which were for eternity? My dad has since remarried - my mother died a few years past. Some of my siblings have had issue with this - I have not, because I feel things are OK. Anyway, he felt, as did others, that my mother was OK with this. Well, what exactly was she OK with? Was it because she knew that he would be with both, and everything would be OK? Or was it because she knew that this second marriage was only going to be for the rest of this life, and because she is not jealous - since she now sees that sex isn't what it is down here (it's Satan's tool here), so she's OK with it? But, my dad and his new wife got sealed in the temple (just as my parents did), so what does THAT do to things? Plus, my dad's second wife is sealed to her children with her first husband (as me and my siblings are to my parents), so what does THAT mean? Or - which I now believe - my mom now knows what is really going on, and she sees that what is going on in this life (besides being obedient and faithful to the Gospel) really doesn't mean too much, so she's OK with it? Who knows? You also mentioned family lines. I have something to say about that as well - I hope this isn't getting too long (I apologize). When we are born, we have the split characteristics of our parents - it makes us look the way we do, and have many of the personalities that we start life off with. Well, if it doesn't really matter who you should marry, then what if someone makes a selfish choice and marries someone they shouldn't - such as your aunt. That would mean the the children will look different than they would have. Does that mean that what we look like now, isn't what we really look like?? Are we going to look different then we do now, in the next life, because we had to come down here to parents who really weren't supposed to be together? If we are going to look the same as we do now, so that others will recognize us, then what about how we looked before? What about those we had relationships before? Shouldn't they be able to recognize us? What if I like the way I looked better before, than to how I look now? You see? There are so many things that we cannot explain - or at least I cannot - that make me wonder. If we are supposed to seek out the Lord for guidance in whom we marry, even though it really doesn't matter, then why should we even ask him in the first place? And why should we try so hard to make a bad marriage work, when it really isn't going to matter in the end anyway, and there is someone else out there that we could be happier with, or that would make things easier? What's the incentive to stuggle through, when all we are doing is just proving obedience? Can't I still obey the Lord and be obedient while getting divorce after divorce trying to find a better mate? I know, alot of questions, but that's what is on my mind. I just don't know.

I'm not waiting/expecting him to make decisions for me, merely to do what he said he would do. He gave us the tools to come to a decision by ourselves, then to ask him if it is right. Just as the brother of Jared ask the Lord to light the rocks - he came to that himself. If it is right, then the Lord will cause that our bossom shall burn within us, and if it be wrong, then he would cause us to be confused, unclear, or bad about it. I am only doing what he has said to do, but am not getting an answer, so I am left to proceed with the decision that I came to, and brought before him.

No, I understand that the Lord does not work when we want, or when we think is right. I know that the Lord knows best, and you have to have faith that it will work out, and that the answer will adventually come. But, some things cannot wait - they are a 'need an answer now' type, and if the answer doesn't come, we are left to make tough choices on our own. I have had to deal with that for some time now, and I am wondering why should I bother anymore.