mouse152

Sorry -- I got a little hot but I do feel strongly about this. I don't, however, want to be contentious so I apologize. If little children only merit the lowest tier, what about forever families? How can we be together if the parents are on the highest and the child is on the lowest, all because she died before 8? And, following the same logic, what then could a baptized 9 year old who dies inherit? He hadn't been married or endowed, so by your teaching he could only merit the lowest tier of the Celestial? Do I understand this right?

What kind of redemption is that for a child who never had the option to live beyond eight to be saved in the lowest tier? That is a hell -- to consign a child who had no ability to choose to anything beyond the full measure of what the Father has to offer. I disagree strongly with what you are posting on this. This is not the Mormon Doctrine I have studied and profess.

One point of contention is the children under eight. My understanding is that they are completely washed clean and inherit the highest degrees of glory in the celestial kingdom -- otherwise we would be like the Catholics condemning them infants and children to hell because of lack of baptism. Where there was no opportunity, there can be no sin. Also, I don't think you can just assign all the "heathen" etc to the Terrestial kingdom. While D&C 76:72 assigns those who died without the law to the Terrestial, there is also D&C 137:7-10 "Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom; For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts. And I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven." I think that the kingdom for those who die without the law will depend quite highly on how they lived the law they had, their relationship with the god they knew, etc. They have to be such that they would have received the gospel if they had been permitted to tarry -- clearly a judgment only God could make. IMHO, I think there are many evangelicals who will be with us in the highest kingdom of glory once they have had an honest opportunity to hear the fullness of the gospel. There is much in this life that taints that reception; being raised that this faith is a hideous cult is something awfully hard to forgo and still be honest to God as you believe him. I'm sorry if I misunderstood anything you said -- if I'm beating a dead horse, just ignore me. I just had to make the clarification about children; it's a schtick of mine. Thanks. M

There have been some great posts! I too have and am struggling with an on-going problem. For me the greatest hope has been the blessing and trial of endurance. I know that I cannot do this on my own (John 15:5) and that I need my Savior. I know too though that His deliverance is on His schedule and not mine. Scriptures that I refer to regularly are: Ether 12:27: "And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that hey may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them." IMO, My struggles and weakness are God given to enable me to become who He wants me to be. As such, they become strengths to me because they force/compel me to turn to God. A year or so ago as I was begging God for deliverance from this bondage He answered me and asked that if He removed it, would I still be faithful? Honest examination of myself produced the answer, "No." I think that is still true. I need this continual reminder that I am weak and mortal and fallible to keep me in constant contact with the One who is not. I also like to read about Alma the Elder. He repented, taught the gospel and then this new group of converts is brought under grievous bondage. Mosiah 23:21: "Nevertheless, the Lord seeth fit to chasten his people; yea, he trieth their patience and their faith." Mosiah 24:13-16: They prayed about their bondage and the Lord did not deliver them but they were in bondage for YEARS. He did visit them in their afflictions and make their load light but deliverance did not come until the exhibited great faith and patience. Also, the Anti-Nephi-Lehi. Alma 24:11: All they could do, all we can do, is repent and seek to follow God. We are guaranteed to stumbled but I think our turning back to God and continually seeking to do better is more important than the stumbling. I also like the book "Believing Christ." I know Stephen Robinson is not a GA but I think that book has so much truth in it. Towards the end he discusses a rough convert who had WOW issues and so many others. He discusses how, over years of faithful effort, she changed and became able to attend the temple, etc. He then asks, paraphrase, "At what point was this woman eligible for the Celestial kingdom?" The answer he posits and to which I agree is the moment she had faith in Christ, repented and was baptized. Christ makes up the difference and there is no requirement to be sin free before He will apply His atoning blood. In fact, I think, that we can only be sin free because of His grace and because of His work in our life. It is a partnership and it is a lifelong process. As to practical, "what can I DO to help my problem", I would offer a prayer journal; it has been my greatest help. I try to write/type my prayers and wait for response and write those too. In the beginning it was hard to hear His voice, but, as a friend says, "If you're praying and hear 'I love you,' why can't that be from God?!" Almost always His voice is gentleness and love, encouragement and reminders of how precious I am to Him. There are moments when I question if I am really hearing Him or my own thoughts. For these, I go back later and reread what I have written and the Holy Spirit will bear witness to me if it is from God or not. This journal has had such a positive influence on me and has helped me be more patient with myself and my shortcomings and given me greater hope. As to my own problem, I DON'T see light at the end of the tunnel yet, but I have hope and faith that it will come. If it doesn't come in this life, I know that this problem has enabled me to have a greater relationship with God then I ever did before. Much love and prayer, M Sorry this was so long!

justme There is a great website: heart-t-heart.org. They are a non-church sponsored LDS 12 step program. They have a forum specifically for the spouses of sex addicts. You may find their posts to be informative. mouse