why me

Oliver had problems with some actions that he assumed that Joseph Smith was engaged in. He showed disloyality to Joseph and his relationship with the church was not on sure footing. He accused Joseph of commiting adultery. He sowed dissension among the saints, among other issues such as the selling of land or land issues. He was excommunicated in order to bring 'union & peace & love' back to the saints. But he was not alone. Other important dissenters: David Whitmer, William Phelps, and John Whitmer. (Bushman page 346-347) What Oliver at fault. Yes, he was. But he was also a human being with his own failings and human nature which got the best of him at times. But he came back and never denied his witness to the book of mormon.

This has been a good thread. Not to complicated and yet, very human centered. It has given the positive side to church court and the meaning of excommunication or disfellowshipment. Glad that it wasn't closed early on.

I think that the point is that the posts on their forum are not sincere in their opinions. They are antimormon and the lds church can be called every name in the book (no curse words) and the posters can get away with it. Some of their posters make Larry McDonnel from the McLaughlin group seem like a boyscout. Catholic Answers is anti mormon and in some respects no different than the alarmists from the early days of the lds church. At least that is how I read their tract and some of the posters who post on their forum. Now I have to say that the animosity in on the non-catholic relgion section of the forum. The rest of their forum is multi-faceted with interesting topics for discussion.

The lds church has tried, I believe, to make outreaches to other faiths. And I believe that the lds leadership may have felt that the lds church has been successful in doing so. But during the past several months there has been much antimormonism being demonstrated on the Internet and in other media outlets. Catholic Answers is just getting in the game that seems to be profitable at this moment. When I write profitable, I don't mean financially but rather it is now more acceptable to create antimormon spaces. And yes, you are right about the Holy Ghost.

It does seem to be trendy and obviously there is money to be made in antimormonism. And I suppose that it is the point of it all. Spead fear in the catholic answer membership and make some money through donations. But I do like the catholic church. I find it very peaceful and holy to be in a catholic church.

The problem that I see is that they are pretty negative about other churches, especially the mormons. But I can also include the JW's and other faiths. I am sure that they mean well. But I don't think that they are representive of the catholic community at large. They seem to be a 'crusade' type organization, attempting to spread their truth and directly critizing other faiths.

Rather sad to see this coming from a catholic board. I post on that board mainly defending the mormon church. But I am also rather close to the catholic faith. But I don't like to see such things happen. It seems that even catholic apologetic sites are in on the antimormon game. But I also know that such people are a small minority in the catholic community. And I thank god for that fact. I was glad to see such respect for the catholic faith on the thread that mentions the catholic faith in the Gospel Discussion section. Here is the information from the catholic site: Mormonism Special Report Project Mormonism Special Report Project - $35 Donation Tax-Deductible MISSION STATEMENT Catholic Answers is a non-profit, lay-run apostolate dedicated to serving Christ by bringing the fullness of Catholic truth to the world. We help good Catholics become better Catholics, bring former Catholics “home,” and lead non-Catholics into the fullness of the faith. We explain Catholic truth, equip the faithful to live fully the sacramental life, and assist them in spreading the Good News. With our new special report on Mormonism, we believe we can “inoculate” Catholics from the falsehoods, half-truths, and twisted history presented by the well-intentioned but sorely misled Mormon faithful. That’s why I’m hoping you’ll be able to send us a special gift of $35 or more to get this project off the ground. In return for your gift, we’ll send you a set of these special reports to distribute to your friends, family, and Mormon acquaintances. For $35, we’ll send you 5 copies of our special report. For $75, we’ll send you 10 copies. And for $150 or more, we’ll send you 15 copies. This way, you can be directly involved in this project. First, with your donation, by helping us get tens of thousands of copies distributed nationwide, where they’re needed most. And second, by doing your own distribution in your local area. Think the Mormons are just a group of nice folks who uphold family values, clean living, and American patriotism? Think the Mormons are just a strange offshoot of Protestant Christianity? Think Mormons are actually Christian? Think again! The truth is, Mormonism is far different from what most people think it is. This is just one of the many projects that can be continued only if we receive generous support from people like you. Thank you for your generous donation that will help continue the apostolic work of Catholic Answers.

I just posted this thread on a catholic website. I just wanted to show the catholic apologists that mormons are very respectful toward the catholic church. On the catholic website forums section I defend the lds church. At times the catholic posts are very hostile toward the lds church. But I also know that such catholics are small in number. The mormons who posted on this thread showed a christian spirit and understanding about members of the catholic church and also about the catholic church in general. I take my hat off to the mormons on this board. <<<opps it won't come off.... The website is catholic.com, non-catholic religion section of the forum.

I have been a socialist since I was 16 years old and that was many years ago. Socialism, especially from a Marxist-Humanist position centers political and economic thought in the early Marx. Marx hit the nail on the head with his theory of alienation. I would recommend the posters to research his theory. One can also go to Marxists Internet Archive for more information about socialist thought. Socialism is very diversified as an ideology. Also, there is a mormon organization that dabbles in socialist thinking. It is made up of active lds who believe in social justice and social equality. You can find it here: Mormons for Equality and Social Justice As a young teenager I came to an awareness that capitalism in its raw form is unjust. It also caters to the the more negative aspects of human nature. Socialism, on the other hand, attempts to bring out the more nurturing aspects of human nature through collective thought and action. The goal is a more human centered life world.

I think that we will need to clarify just what a disgusting magazine is. Pornography has invaded many magazines that would not be considered pornographic. For example, Cosmo has some pretty blatant headlines on its cover. And so, what exactly is a disgusting magazine? I know that porn magazines are disgusting but what else?

Forgiving oneself should be easy. God is merciful and when approached with a contrite heart, he is all forgiving. And if god is forgiving, we should all forgive ourselves for past transgressions. I do believe that god is an understanding parent, as those of us who are parents are understanding and forgiving of our own children, when they may do wrong. I believe that Heavenly Father is no different.