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I really do respect your opinion on this. It's something that we may not find out for sure until after, but I just feel(by way of my own personal opinion) that Satan is far too intelligent, with far to incisive a mind to actually believe that in general he can still win. That doesn't mean that it isn't a victory to him when he is able to win over the souls of men. But I don't think that changes the fact that despite those victories, he knows that he has lost, and that in the end the Almighty Father of us all is going to deal with him according to what he has earned. The doctrine on his fate isn't hidden. Satan knows our gospel far better than we do. How else could he alter things with such astute subtlety that so many think they are still doing right according to doctrine when they are really off-base? I also think that, despite him knowing that he will have one last chance following the millennium to reign freely upon the earth, and that after that he will be consigned to his final fate in "outer darkness", that he is still going to work just as hard during that period of time to sway as many souls as he can. I also can't help but call to mind the examples of devils from the bible who were instantly able to recognize the Savior and His servants, even when the vast majority of the "covenant" and "chosen" people rejected them. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but isn't it true that the veil is not drawn over the adversary and his minions? Is it not true that with such, they would still remember each and every one of us from pre-mortality, and that they remember the realities and teachings from that pre-mortal realm with perfect clarity, despite their having gone contrary to them(which makes them sons of perdition in the first place)?

I agree. I have considered, and would accept that the only remote semblance of corrupted pleasure left to Satan is when he is able to lure the covenant sons and daughters of our Father away from the straight and narrow path. He is miserable eternally, however, as stated above. We could cite one other scriptural classic here, "wickedness never was happiness."

But God does allow Satan to act against us for our betterment. The story of Job is a great example. As opinion, I would say the moment Christ's atonement was complete was the moment that Satan knew he'd lost. So he is trying to get as many to follow him as he possibly can, but they are the desperate attempts of a being who knows he's lost.

What a beautifully sound walloping I've received. It really was wonderful, though, especially when you can learn so much by it. Ignorance may be blissful, but informed knowledge is so much better. Thank you all, especially for that last post. The history is something that I probably would never have encountered otherwise. And of course I'd heard statements from the church which apparently aren't quite as straightforward as I once thought, such as "The Origin of Man" and the book, "Man, His Origin and Destiny". So thank you for taking the time to respond. You're all correct, so there isn't really anything to rebut. Thanks for informing me. This is something that I'll put back on the shelf until God decides to give us more.

With regards to your statement that leaders have left the door open, I'm not entirely clear to what degree that can be true. For example, evolution is an okay theory for study, but statements have been made to correct the idea of human evolution. Which really makes sense to me, in that if human evolution were a viable theory it would mean Adam was a Neanderthal, right? Or would Adam be the first fully evolved man to come from the neanderthals? But then we know that in Genesis it talks of Adam being formed by God himself, not through neanderthals. So in that sense evolution had to be discredited because it would destroy the faith of millions in the Holy Scriptures. Now I agree we cannot know everything, and anything is possible with God, but I think that for a very good reason the prophets made statements against that theory. Science though, is wonderful. I agree that people are overly cautious and critical about science. Henry Eyring was an extraordinary scientist. The study of science can be one of the most faith-promoting studies in the world. I heard another scientist state that when you go down past Atoms and their constructs in the human body, the smallest thing that they have been able to identify is just light. It's amazing the things that are there to be discovered. I do however agree that there should be respect toward anyone still with regards to their viewpoints and beliefs. I don't mean this in any ways as a contention or criticism.

One of the great things about this is it isn't just the LDS scholars who will cite evidences for this. In any Western Civilization Class you will study and learn about it firsthand. You will learn about how the Bishops who were left after the apostles died and were killed could not even agree on the doctrines they espoused. There were no authoritative guides to teach them as before. Another evidence of this is Constantine, as was mentioned earlier. The fact that an outside Emperor had to come in and get the "leaders" of the church together to debate the nature of God is an indicator of the state of that church. The Nicene Creed was a consensus that tried to cater to all different viewpoints. It wasn't a firm declaration of doctrine. Try to read that and then say that they were guided by revelation from the Almighty. Then the dark ages. If the apostolic succession had continued, then why did politics consume the Papacy? Why did the Pope turn a blind eye to the selling of indulgences and simony(selling church offices and forgiveness to the highest bidder)? There were good men, and truly devout men, but there's a reason they refer to that time as the "Dark Ages". The light of revelation was not there, and because of that mankind has now gotten used to the idea that there is no more revelation. We have received the guidance God wanted to give us and now He is leaving it up to us to navigate our way through the scriptures and the doctrines? I don't think so. Even if you did nothing more than look at the organization, you would see the tie between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the New Testament organization. We actually have apostles, that bear the name Apostle. We have the seventy, we have bishops, we have patriarchs, etc. Ephesians 4 is one of my favorite chapters about this. It tells you that Christ appointed these offices unto His people in the church. It tells you why He thought these offices were necessary, and it tells you how long they will be needed. I agree that you should study about both, and be entirely open-minded about both, but more importantly, keep an open heart as you search. The final confirmations will not come from man, but from the Holy Ghost. There are good things in all faiths. You could go to almost any church and feel the Spirit testify of a gospel truth. But there is, as Christ's servants stated in New Testament times, "One Lord, one faith, one baptism." There are so many witnesses out there. I know you'll find what you're looking for.

Satan is a Son of Perdition, meaning he is beyond redemption. His punishment is affixed and set. There is something to the fact that he was completely and fully aware of who God was and what was right and he still chose to go against that. He was in full view of the light, and still chose darkness. Hence, his denial of all that was holy leaves him without another chance. His entire will and purpose is bent on our destruction. Satan was in the garden. Take a look at the Joseph Smith Translation and the doctrine of the church. The author of all evil took it into his hands to deal with our first parents, Just as he personally took it into his hands to go against the Son of God again when Christ atoned for us. The heavens wept over Lucifer's fall. Of course there was great mourning when those sons and daughters of God rebelled and fell. These are the children of our Heavenly Father, our sisters and brothers who we knew and associated with. Can you imagine the heartache of the heavens as we watched our loved ones turn their backs to the light? There should be sorrow for the fall that they underwent, and heartache for their loss, but not pity. He would use that sympathy to poison us by degrees and lull us into a false sense of security. Can you tell I'm passionate about this? Know the adversary, and know his tools and ploys, but do not ever take part in them or lower your standards in order to learn about him better. He would dilute our minds and murder us even as we mourned for him. Read about Amalackiah in the Book of Mormon. He is a very chilling portrayal and type of the devil. Read about Lehonti, and about the Lamanite King.

Check out this scripture right under our noses. 2 Nephi 10:16 • The great and abominable church, the whore of all the earth are all churches, all people’s institutions, organizations etc. that fight against Zion. This is the church of the devil.

Joseph Smith Translation, Genesis 3:7 "And Satan put it into the heart of the serpent, for he had drawn away many after him; and he sought also to beguile Eve, for he knew not the mind of God; wherefore, he sought to destroy the world." Satan does not know the mind of God, and did not, or else he never would have tempted Adam and Eve, because he would have understood that only in Adam and Eve never partaking of the fruit would God's plan have been frustrated. So the only thing Satan really understood was that Adam and Eve had received a commandment from the Lord to not partake of the fruit. Satan, knowing of that commandment, wanted only to make them break the commandment.