sjdean

Come back Benny. As a Christian myself, I understand exactly where you're coming from. Revelation is inconsistent. Or at least, some people have a harder time communicating to God. I think God communicates in different ways to different people. Certainly he never answered my question as to whether the Book of Mormon was true or false. But I felt many other things happening, like, a spiritual awakening, unexplained things, I felt protection. You may just not be ready. And hey, it's Ok. It'll come at the right time for you, when you're ready. That's my personal opinion. And maybe the quakers are right, maybe there's more than one way to God, especially if we think that the only thing that is required is faith and love (from a CofE perspective), perhaps there are many different styles of worship and you need to find the right one that fits with your beliefs. That would be my advice to any newcomer to faith. Have a think about what you think religion is about. It should be imprinted on people from an early age I believe. My main beliefs about religion is freewill. After meeting the Mormon missionaries who gave me the first inkling of faith, I spent the next 10 years looking at the different religions and wondering what I thought faith was about. Ultimately I wanted a God that didn't restrict me, he had to give me freewill to make mistakes so I was responsible for my actions, I wanted a God that wouldn't stop me from doing things - he gave us all this beauty in the world, why would he not want us to share in everything? And I put together a short list, and went to the first church that I thought didn't stand for anything and could never see myself going to and was over the moon for a week. I knew that was right for me. I got baptised and confirmed. So you need to ask whether you believe in God. Then whether you believe in Jesus. Then what you think the nature of God is - or rather, what do you want God to be. Explore the religions. Explore your inner self. Make a shortlist of worship places, and try a few. You'll know.

Interesting topic. Im non-LDS - CofE here. Still pretty new, but we've been going through Galatians which is great. My understanding is that obviously before Christianity, Jews had a load of their own laws which was impossible to keep. Paul points back to Abraham saying he was saved by faith alone and the main two commandments we as Christians have to take on is there is only one god - obey him, and love you neighbour as yourself, and these two, hang the law and the prophets. Paul takes it one step further I understand in saying if anyone preaches anything other this, adding rules and regulations, let them be condemned. As to works vs faith, the way I understand it, it is only through the grace of God that we are saved - there's nothing we can do to be saved. We are all sinners, we are all imperfect. So we have to seek forgiveness through the grace of god. Good works do not bring us to faith or God, but faith and being close to God brings us to do good works. Peace and Love all! Cheers Simon

Incidentally, as much as I wanted to join the LDS, it didn't sit right with me. I can't explain it. That's not to criticise the LDS in anyway shape or form, but for me, right now, I am following the path I think I should take. It's been quite beautiful over the past three weeks taking a step back and realising all of Gods beauty. Cheers Simon

Hi Guys, It's been a while, but I just wanted to share a very special event in my life. I have got baptised and confirmed in the Church of England and loving it. For three weeks I was over the moon. I hit a stumbling block yesterday and feel awful today, but I trust God will pick me up again. Thanks Simon

I like my theological question. I can understand how Christianity evolved from Judaiism. The old testament pretty much points to a saviour doesn't it? But Im confused over Islam, because it seems to contradict many of the teachings from the Bible. As a Christian, if we hold the Bible to be the infallible word of God, how can we claim that Islam has the same God? Cya Simon

In terms of Hypnogogia, and I do thank you for your input, unfortunately many of the websites I read with relation to sleep disturbances are all over the shop. There's even one called exploding head syndrome which can apparently account for any noise at any time of the day whether sleeping or awake. Good. Glad that one was sorted. At times like that, I kind of have to laugh at science trying to make rational the irrational. Now I know you might think Im crazy, but I really can tell the difference between an hallucination and something else. That's why I give the story about being in hospital. I know if its a dream despite it being so incredibly real. I know I've heard door bells ringing in my sleep, but I put that down to hallucination. But what I had was something else. Something else completely. I know it wasn't sleep paralysis because I could move, I was concious when this thing happened to me, and I remember scrunching my eyes tight and clasping my hands together and muttering a prayer to Christ. A lot of people who have these sleep paralysis episodes I understand literally can't move, feel unable to breath let alone scream out or pray. I usually understand these hypnogogia episodes usually happen when you're a little bit further into sleep and haven't just got into bed two minutes prior. At the time, I used to have a few of those experiences, once I even slept face down and had a dream that I was posessed by the devil. It wasn't until I quite literally, I turned to Christ that all of this suddenly stopped. Thanks for your message Hemi... I've often been thinking for 10 years whether Im to do something esle with my life and felt a pull towards spiriualism. Just wish it was LDS that I had been brought to as that is what I was yearning for. But alas, I've been brought to the Church of England (and I feel wonderful). Thanks Simon

I woke up this morning feeling rather in despair. I was looking for something yesterday that might explain that weird crashing, banging, whooshing noise followed by the whisper "I can see you". This accompanied by intense fear and dread. Im fully awake and can move, I have full cognitive function, so when I prayed to Jesus and everything went quiet and calm, I used that as a confirming factor in my belief. But obviously people are going to mention Exploding Head Syndrome and Hypnogogia... Let them. Exploding Head Syndrom is a waffly condition that shows every sound under the book, in any age generation, at any time of the day. Hyponogogia seems mainly to affect those who are just crossing the threshold to sleep, not to those who are awaking. But ... the real thing ... I woke up this morning really depressed. I was thinking, how can I be sure of my faith? I mean, the things I've said so far, could be explained by other things, then what do I have for my faith? Nothing! Faith is just faith. How can I have faith in faith and I started doubting and doubting. But then I thought, well, I only have to think about Christ and I get lots of joy, I love Church, my faith might be weak but I have it. What if the Devil is making me doubt? So I prayed again to Christ, at which point, I let out a sigh and everything became calm and joyous again. Has anybody had anything like that, feelings just change from one thing to another in a flash? Feel really depressed one minute as if that's it, that's the end of my faith, then a quick pray, confirm yourself to Christ ask for his help, and bang, you're back!

I like the book of Mark from the New Testament when it starts talking about a seed in shallow soil, amongst thorns, on a path, and in good soil. That hit me. Gods not going to overwhelm anyone to begin with, he's going to give them a good solid base with which to proceed. Cya Simon

Just tell me, the feelings I had, was that the Holy Spirit, or am I just manic depressive?

I've accepted Christ a long time ago. I can't explain it, but I know Christ is real, God is real, and I am protected. I didn't go to Church just to join in a monotonous meeting and to play the part. I went because I want to be closer to God, I want to hear him, I want to worship him, I want to learn more about him and what he wants me to do. But he hasn't expressly told me what he wants me to do. I think he wants me to learn that for myself, or at least make the first move. I appreciate that feelings are not the be all and end all of religion, and I definitely know that I will have bad feelings. That doesn't mean God does not exist. I just hope at least the feelings I had immediately after Church, is an indication that the path Im taking is right and that this is what God wants me to do. I just don't know if Im reading too much into it, because I've never felt the Holy Spirit before, I don't know what it's like, but what I experienced is unlike anything I've ever felt before.

I think this discussion fits in better here, though Im not sure. Those of you who have been familiar with my posts, know that for the past ten years I've been searching my heart, searching the lord, trying to read the Bible, reading the Book of Mormon and wondering in what direction God wanted to take me. The Mormon missionaries gave me the seed, the faith if you like, but there were always things about the religion that I was either perplexed about or didn't understand, and as much as I tried to understand it, I found I had another problem and so on. This was made even more difficult when I didn't get, or at least I didn't hear, the answer to Moroni's promise. Despite being drawn to the Mormon church, part of me was also being pushed away. But I figured that there should at least be three types of churches to try, Church of England, Quaker and Mormon. I threw caution to the wind and went to my local Church of England. People ask why I went there, and my answer, to find God, to take the next step, to make a commitment and show God Im here, hoping he'll tell me what to do next. Well, the next thing I knew, for the next 60 hours, I have been filled with such an amazing spirit. I am full of joy and passion, life is wonderful. I feel at peace and happiness. It's more than I've ever experienced before. It's like Im just at that little bit tipsy stage after drinking two pints. Serenity, calm, peacefulness, joy, pleasure... Im always smiling now. I want to share the good news. I don't know what that is. I would like to say that that is the Holy Spirit telling me yes, Im on the right path, go for it, do this. Even if we say LDS is the only true faith, well, my local Church is true for me at my stage. Im so incredibly tired, but I feel like Im on a high. There's no physical or emotive reason for this, it, just is. Is this the Holy Spirit? Thanks Simon

How do I know where he's leading me? What do I ask him? Im so confused, yes, I do overanalyse

Hi Guys, My previous post came out a little misconstrued I think, so I thought of a better way of explaining my dilemma I think. First, I have the problem that I can't be 100% sure if the LDS Church is true, 100% true for me, or even just true enough for me to follow it. Despite the draw that I feel for the Church, I feel something pushing me away. So the confusion I have, is the draw or the pushing away from God? That's why I keep looking for a little bit more, that little bit of extra guidance, something that is significant to me, no matter what it might be. But the next problem I have, at the moment, while I appreciate the idea about making the next step in going to church, the problem I have, is which church do I select? Im interested in three different religions. Should I go to them all and see what they're like? I know God wants me to go to church, but which one? So that's why I've been looking for some signs, or some kind of revelation, say asking God if I can be inspired to be in a certain place at a certain time and see something or hear something that makes sense and get to discuss things, but it has to be something unique, something that doesn't happen every day, it can't be coincidence or routine. As I say, one of the problems, is what's from God? If I read any significance into seeing an LDS Church and seeing the Mormon Missionaries on the streets, then by the same token, isn't seeing a Catholic Church at random significant? Jehovas Witnesses coming to the door, is that significant? Is one more significant than the other? If none of these are significant or signs, then maybe receiving the Book of Mormon wasn't a sign? If that wasn't a sign, then maybe God isn't drawing me to the church at all? So that's my problem(s). I really don't know. Should I just go to all the churches Im considering and see what they're like and try and feel the spirit? At least do something towards the next step? Thanks Simon

I see what you're saying MrNirom. Or perhaps I don't. It's confusing. I like to think of things as signs, but I need something more conclusive or unusual than simply passing missionaries in a street. Which is why I keep asking. Now there's two things. Either they're signs, in which case, sign me up, or they're not signs, which mean God isn't directing me to church and that in the "cold feet" I've got, is God trying to tell me not to go to the LDS church and find another path. So it works both ways IMHO. The only way it means "This is God suggesting you should go to the LDS church" is if you have the pre-position that the church is true. Once you have that, there's no other room for movement and any sign leading away is considered not from God, and any sign leading to is considered from God. But that's if you're one of the people who are sure that God provides/gives signs if you ask. There's many who don't. But because Im a "neutral" so to speak, it's why I look for something stronger, or perhaps something that makes sense to me. I need to make sure it isn't coincidence. I need to make sure it isn't me just being obsessive. So for example, driving past missionaries in my car, doesn't count. Seeing them near where I work by a certain date would be massive, because I've never seen them there. It wouldn't be coincidence. Getting the opportunity to speak to one in the street hasnever happened before, so I look for something like that. Cya Simon

Hello General, Nah, the laugh at me title was me thinking, hey, what Im saying sounds weird... should I be feeling that these were signs or not? I read waaay too much into things. It's probably quite unhealthy. And when people say that Im doubting God by what Im asking, the problem I have, is at this stage, it doesn't matter how much Im drawn to it, how much I really want to do it, there's just a ticking thing in my head, saying "are you sure? are you sure? are you sure?" To say Im doubting God gives the pre-position that the church is true, and if you believe that the church is true from the outside, no amount of asking whether the church is true is going to yield a different answer. With apparently 1000 churches in North America alone, it's not that I don't have faith in God and Christ,, that will always be there, it's the faith in man I struggle with. I can't just go with the pre-position that the church is definitely true. If I join the church and its false then I could still be doubting God. I see myself in much the same position of Joseph Smith. While Im not asking to see Jesus, Im just hoping I'll see a couple of things that will click with me and I can open my heart. With regards to the videos... Well... I think I touched on it before, but I really love anti-mormon videos. Because it gives me something to think about and to examine my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs. I try to seek opinion and perspective from other people, try to understand the way someone else thinks to see if there's any bit of my behaviour that needs to be adjusted. Then I can come up with a counter argument. So that particular video, it's given me a different way of looking at things, anti-mormon though it is, and I can state quite assuredly I disagree with the video and these are my thoughts. I don't think you'll ever get rid of my curiosity. Cya Simon

Several times! I've wanted it to be true more than anything, but simply wanting doesn't make it true. At least not for me. Trust myself? I think you may have hit the nail on the head with that one. Thanks for the post.

I am one of those people that would always love to answer the critics, to prove them wrong. I suppose there's a problem then that if I know there's no faith. Im always the person that's asking why is this so, why is the world like that, why do people behave like this, what does it mean to do that etc, so I like to take on board things and try and answer theml I understand what you're talking about too with regards to the concept of what we were talking about being dangerous. Something like that can be open to abuse and judgement. Simply answered away, but there are some people who like to twist words to attack don't they? Ta Simon

My answer, that I think the guy took JFS's quotes from the book out of context and almost distorted it to sound bad. That JFS isn't saying to be black is bad and being white is good, but that to be one is perhaps more advantageous than the other. If I look at it from the point of view that even today there is so much racism, sexism, ageism, there's so much inequality and discrimination it's almost advantageous to be a white middle aged anglo saxon male. Perhaps it is a comment based upon the social circumstances at the time. Im not 100% sure, I havent read the book.

I like to read and watch as many things I can to make myself more aware of the nature and stances of certain things. I totally agree though that the guy is completely anti-mormon and as I say, I think he's taken things completely out of context. As I say, it troubled me, but I think I have the answer, just love to know if what I say holds water. Cya Simon

I. Don't know. I guess firstly, am I reading too much into seeing missionaries on the street when Im looking for a sign and I don't normally see them? I mean, I like to think that receiving the Book of Mormon 9 years ago was a huge sign and if that isn't, then my whole thinking and stance on this is completely wrong. Also love to know the thoughts on that particular video. I found it quite troubling, but I think I do have the explanation as said above. But I don't know if Im barking up the wrong tree. I know some people say that not everything is scripture for example. But I think there's another explanation, I've re-analysed the video and Im picking up a different message behind JFS's words. Im really not attacking anyone, and Im actually thinking the guy in the video is a little obsessive and actually over-emphasizing the wrong elements of a passage. Cheers Simon

I keep praying for a sign, some indication that I should join the church. Not that I doubt God or Christ or anything, but I do doubt man, and 1000 churches apparently in North America alone makes me think, sheesh, they can't all be right... So the other day I went on site for work and opposite the building was a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Omen? In the afternoon, complete random road, complete random town, I see two missionaries walking in my direction. I say, Ok, if they walk past me, then, that's it, I'll be a Mormon. They could have walked to the left, but no. They walked past me. So then the doubts came again. They weren't missionaries. I couldn't see name tags. Ok, I'll ignore that. The following day, another random town, another random road at another random time, I see two more missionaries and I look for the little black name tags. Yes, Ok, Im strange and I read too much into things. Unfortunately then I start watching a video from what appears to be a devout Christian raising issues of race within the Book of Mormon and Joseph Fielding Smiths book, Doctrines of Salvation. YouTube - Disturbing Doctrines from the Mormon Pre-Existence Hey, I got some opinion about JFS though. It could be taken like what the speaker is saying, but another way of looking at it I guess is that even now, white people have it so much better. There is still so much racism and inequality in the world. It's not saying its bad to be a certain skin colour, but the pre-existence perhaps explains all the suffering. I don't know. I know I don't want to get too risque. Also I suppose you could say that the mainstream christian churches are no better in their attitudes towards say abortion, contraception and homosexuality. For one church to be critical about XYZ and then criticise another church for being against ABC seems quite silly and possibly hypocritical. Cya Simon

One of the problems with a justice field I would imagine is well, is those who want to inflict self harm on themselves.... becomes a little more easier! It would take away freedom and personal responsibility, learning as you rightly say!

Another fantastic post by Penny. I see Chet has a Dave Lister icon. Im reminded of the inquisitor episode when the Cat and Rimmer were judged better than Lister and Kryten. although Cat and Rimmer did very little with their lives, they did the most with what they had. While Lister and Kryten had the ability to do so much more but never did. TV has taught us so much! :-) The problem I had originally meeting the missionaries ten years ago, is that I would like to take that as a sign. But what if it wasn't a sign? What if it was just coincidence and there's nothing magical or mystical about it and Im reading waaaay too much. But yeah, it makes sense. I myself have been given the book of mormon, the opportunity to learn, to take on board, to discuss. I think God's waiting for me to take the next step, go to Church, discover, feel happy and comfortable. He's waiting for me to act on the faith I have and do something about. Yeah. I get it. But I do remember Debs first post saying she had gone to the church but didn't feel comfortable?

Yes, thank you Penny. I hope Deb found that as useful as I did. Obviously there is a concern from me that you can pretty much renounce religion and say you're having nothing to do with it and then within a few days the missionaries are round your house. But then when you are say at least 60% certain and you really really really want to join the church and get baptised, but you just want God to confirm his will with you to make sure you're not just being obsessive or that it's not like the other 1499 churches that thinks its brand is right, you then don't get anything and people say its a deal with God! Or maybe Pennys encounter was like my chance encounter when I needed it most, when I had given up. But I think I do understand what Penny is saying. I think it boils down to, just go. If you don't like it or you don't think it's true, then you can walk away without any problem. But you wont know unless you try. If you're still shy of the whole baptism thing, can you still feel more by going to the church? I suppose one of my concerns is that once I've plucked up the courage to go (when my folks are on holiday most likely and I can get out of the house without bein seen), that I'll be sitting there and feeling nothing. Or worse still, feeling the same at the LDS church as I do at a Church of England church, or Catholic church and it wont give me the answers (or at least a very strong hint).

Maybe the missionaries stopping me in Solihull many years ago and giving me a copy of the Book of Mormon when I needed it most and introducing God into my life wasn't a sign then? Unless, God doesn't give signs to those that asks, but gives signs to those who need it most to protect them? Lets change that word "signs" to help instead?