Ophiophagus

I did ask God. He spoke through the Prophets. I just thought those that are gender confused (Gay) might find hope if they could somehow determine what gender they were before getting their bodies. Makes extraordinary sense to me. But thats me. :)

Iv always enjoyed that Men and Women are very different, and I am thankful for it. And I celebrate those differences. But we are very equal and have strengths that differ. Anyways I was on this other thread about Gays and what kind of answers they could find. But of course we went nowhere (understandably) But It did lead me down another path which I personally think offers the most insight into the issue. This is what I found. Boyd K. Packer I ask you the same question that Paul asked the Corinthians: “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?”11 Your gender was determined in the premortal existence. Elder David A. Bednar of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles: “[Gender] in large measure defines who we are, why we are here upon the earth, and what we are to do and become. For divine purposes, male and female spirits are different, distinctive, and complementary. … The unique combination of spiritual, physical, mental, and emotional capacities of both males and females were needed to implement the plan of happiness” (“Marriage Is Essential to His Eternal Plan,” Liahona, June 2006, 51; Ensign, June 2006, 83). Julie B. Beck, Relief Society general president: “As spirit daughters of God, women ‘received their first lessons in the world of spirits and were prepared to come forth’ (D&C 138:56) on the earth. They were among the ‘noble and great ones’ (D&C 138:55) who ‘shouted for joy’ (Job 38:7) at the creation of the earth because they would be given a physical body with the opportunity to be proven in a mortal sphere (see Abraham 3:25). They wished to work side by side with righteous men to accomplish eternal goals that neither can attain independently. Female roles did not begin on earth, and they do not end here. A woman who treasures motherhood on earth will treasure motherhood in the world to come” (“A ‘Mother Heart,’ ” Liahona and Ensign, May 2004, 76). Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has taught that our creation as male and female children of God “was done spiritually in your premortal existence when you lived in the presence of your Father in Heaven. Your gender existed before you came to earth.” 4

thanks MOE I disagree and agree with different parts to all our opinions. I never get upset debating usually. (and I am Not)Insult is harbored by the weak. And every once in great while I get this hair to talk to someone besides my wife. Who is way to strong to even worry about this stuff. She feels the sorrow to but not the anger like me. And honestly I dont feel anger over the Gays, it was just a question. So I come to a forum. But im sorry I will be leaving. unfortunately and fortunately I always come to a conclusion quickly and not by choice that makes these forums moot. This is similar to my Political Forum "hair." I wanted to Rage about how sad abortion is and how there shouldn't even be any debating about it. I say "sad" only after I went through all the stages of Rage and Anger. I read a lot, I mean a LOT of Pro-Choice(murder) threads. And in one single day I realized that there will never be any changing of there minds or hearts. I cried for those babies who would and will be abandoned and murdered in cold blood by the very ones that should be loving and nurturing them. MOE did make me realize the one thing that will send me packin (which I have always Known and believed but its nice to be reminded), That the scriptures "Old, New, and Current Prophecy" Hold all the answers We need. Thanks all.

From the words of my favorite movie: "Proof?"......... "Did you love your Father?" "Excuse me?" "Your Father... Did you love him?" "Yes, very much."............. "Prove it" Evidence is fun but moot. The proof is putting it to the test and realizing it has worked miracles in your life.

Scripture about pre earth gender? (spirit) I swear there was a scripture about spiritual gender. Anyone got any ideas?

That is just hard to believe, Im sorry. Being Naturally Homosexual but still enter in to a Hetro marriage and still being Happy? I just think gender attraction has far more reaching implications to make this type of a freak show plausible. I mean marriage is ETERNAL!! Hes NEVER going to be attracted to his ETERNAL Spouse. Or in Heaven is the Homo suddenly magically going to be attracted to his wife or females for that matter? Our families are supposed to be structured like HFs family and will last forever. Ok so im goin for broke now. The scriptures say that spiritual gender has always existed. Are the homos female spirits inside a mans body? or are they male spirits trapped in side a body that is chemically malfunctioning to be attracted to the male essence. This is as close to an answer has I can find.

I believe God wants us to make up our minds and solidity our opinions and beliefs. I believe God wants us to be either Hot or Cold. I believe you like to avoid problems. (No Offense)

I believe trying a drug and then becoming addicted to it is way different then being born with a legitimate natural condition. (not your argument Vort, Chill) and PP isnt Committing to celibacy a sin? Im Sorry Vort im a simpleton. The only way to make progress is to simplify. So your basically saying that everyone here agrees that homosexuality can be (notice I said CAN be) completely real and legitimate and natural for a Gay person. And your answer is... (as a whole).... To bad? Suck it up? Rub some dirt on it? God will get you through it? Wow. You all are also saying a Gay person has to marry someone an live with them and be faithful to them for the rest of his life despite having no physical traction to them? And I was simply referring to: "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased." sounds to me like Hes proud of Him. You all need not get me wrong, Homosexuality disgusts me personally. But I have come a long ways being honest with my self (meaning I wont deny that there seems to be no answer for them or this huge Problem.) And I have rarely if ever felt a lack of answers in The True Church. Sorry for the repetitions Vort. It is only because I am finding this lack of (again) ANSWERS reinforcing my confusion. Remember I am not accusing any one. Im just trying to sift through all the Bullcrap.

I respectfully but COMPLETELY DISAGREE!! You don't believe in a lot of GODS views!!??? The countless COMMANDMENTS DEFINE WHAT A MORMON IS, or should BE. I am a proud Mormon and I believe (even if i am some times to weak to act) That the Prophet is the mouth piece of God. And every thing he says, especially official church comments and talks are the direct voice of GOD. Even if I am imperfect, I believe the council is. Can you claim to be a Mormon but not believe in Joseph Smith?? And the infinite lies that the adversary and other idiots claim about Mormons has nothing to do with a Self Proclaiming Mormon disagreeing with the Prophet of the church.

Wow you guys really get down to it. Complexity is of the devil.(Not an accusation) It seems the question is. Is being GAY for some people REAL? I understand that some out there are just freaks and like attention. But what about the ones who grew up gay, Had gay tendencies when they were 6 years old. Act like girls walk like girls talk like girls on and on and on.... And they say its not a natural choice for them to be Hetero. example.... Its not a choice for me to be turned on by the female essence. ITS not a choice for me to be Heterosexual. I am end of story. So you think there are NO physical or chemical problems with any Gay person that might cause him to be turned on by male essence. (Im referring to Gay men to keep it simple.) I can not think of any other NATURAL tendencies that if kept with in the lords bounds are condemned by him. Even HE had pride in his son. Even pride if kept pure is not condemned.

Just thought I should say Hi. And to make it short: I am a hard core Patriot and I belive in the Constitution, not in Damacracy. I am a convert. Broke the law a lot but was never violent, until I heard the excuses people gave for murdering there very own innocent unborn child. Married in a temple and I am still happily married. 8 years later. And I believe this is a spiritual war and there will be casualties. I love my 2 children beyond any thing you can imagine. It is impossible to offend me. Unfortunately, I expect the same from you. (Unless you are Pro-Choice of course. Then I will attempt to hunt you down).

LS. So you are saying even if they are truly gay they are not permitted to act on it? Wow, that would suck. For the record I love women, I mean A woman. And I fully know there is only ONE proper family structure. But to help I need to understand. Bini. Didn't Gandhi worship cows? Im kidding!!

Which proves that our condemners led by Satan are either unintelligent or flat out lying to trick you into doubting. Put your shoulder to the wheel my friend. Few of us our strong enough to continually question every thing or dwell on doubt and accusations.

Moksha is correct. There are no exceptions or any reasons to question that. unless you can think of some excuse to be purposely unhappy.

Do whats in your heart. But I keep it simple. I pay 10% of my pay check. And of course I pay God before I pay the government. even though I have no choice in paying the government which is why I consider taxes Socialized Thievery. But dont get me started.

Its so funny that there's a thread about Survivor!! Cause I have all the seasons. but one thing that has bothered this convert (me) to the point of abandoning the show is the rampant way the producers try to make Mormons look bad. You may not feel this way but I do. "Gay Mormons" Nudist Mormons." I know the show is not the most spiritually uplifting, I know the profit is not watching it. But that is not my point. To my point (which isn't even the shows degrading of Mormon principles. But my question is about gay Mormons. and especially a SELF PROCLAIMING gay Mormon. But for the record. I dont know what to think about gay people in the first place. But my question is why would you claim to be part of something that condemns your way of life. Being gay and claiming to be a Mormon implies that you support Mormonism. I just dont get it. you can not claim to be a Mormon but not completely support what the leader of our church proclaims. and to break it down to the nitty gritty. The prophet is the mouth piece of GOD! if you believe that then you must understand that GOD him self does not support your way of life. of course he supports YOU, bla bla bla just not your actions, bla bla bla. If God condems it then it is wrong. if you claim to have no choice about who you are (being gay). Why would God condemn something that you have no control over. Im not choosing sides here.