Shell72
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Posts posted by Shell72
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I do agree 100% that God is love! However, does this mean that because He is love that He will give us commmandments and don't care if they are not obeyed? Then, why give us all these teachings about "Following the Lord, keeping His commandments, obeying Him, etc.?''
God is love, mercy, forgiveness, long-suffering, not puffed up, just, law-giver, the Creator,....
The commandments that sums up all the law:
Matthew 2236 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt alove the Lord thy God with all thy bheart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy cmind.
38 This is the first and great acommandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt alove thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the alaw and the prophets.
We are to love God this way, and if we love Him, we follow Him, His teaching, His commandments, the way He set things, not out of our own pleasure and desires.
Jesus taugh us in John 14 (Emphasis added)
15 ¶ If ye alove me, bkeep my ccommandments.
21 He that hath my commandments, and akeepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be bloved of my Father, and I will love him, and will cmanifest myself to him.
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will alove him, and we will come unto him, and make our babode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me acommandment, even so I do...
Nephi taught us:
[B]1 Ne. 17: 35 35 Behold, the Lord esteemeth all aflesh in one; he that is brighteous is cfavored of God.
I feel that some people become really confused with the notion of God is love that somehow it justifies lack of obedience to His commandments and teachings. He does love all of us, but that does not justify disobedience to Him.
Alma 45: 16
16 And he said: Thus saith the Lord God—aCursed shall be the land, yea, this land, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, unto destruction, which do bwickedly, when they are fully ripe; and as I have said so shall it be; for this is the cursing and the cblessing of God upon the land, for the Lord cannot look upon sin with the dleast degree of allowance. D&C 1: 31
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon asin with the least degree of allowance;
And sin is anything that is against His teaching and will and commandments; anything that opposes Him. That's precisely where Satan stands: in opposition to all that is good which comes from God.
And about judging, we are to make judgements and were taught to do so, but not about people's standing with the Lord & final judgements (That's the Lord's place)
Ps. 7: 8
8 The Lord shall ajudge the people: judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
We need to make judgments about behaviors, teachings, laws, choices, friendships, etc. regarding right and wrong. If not so, how could we follow His teaching to stay away from wickdeness, choose the right, the good, choose God over Satan?
Lev. 19: 15
15 ¶ Ye shall do no aunrighteousness in bjudgment: ... but in drighteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
John 7: 24
24 aJudge not according to bthe cappearance, but judge righteous judgment.
D&C 11: 12
12 And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your atrust in that bSpirit which cleadeth to do dgood—yea, to do ejustly, to walk fhumbly, to gjudge righteously; and this is my Spirit.
How do we judge righteously?
[B]Matthew 714 Because astrait is the bgate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto clife, and few there be that find it.
15 ¶ Beware of afalse prophets, which come to you in bsheep’s clothing, but cinwardly they are ravening dwolves.
16 Ye shall aknow them by their bfruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth agood bfruit; but a ccorrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good afruit is bhewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their afruits ye shall know them.
Moroni taugh us perfectly:
Moroni 7
5 For I remember the word of God which saith by their aworks ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also.
11 For behold, a bitter afountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he bfollow Christ he cannot be a cservant of the devil.
12 Wherefore, all things which are agood cometh of God; and that which is bevil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to csin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do agood continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and benticeth to do cgood, and to love God, and to serve him, is dinspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is aevil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to ajudge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the aSpirit of Christ is given to every bman, that he may cknow good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do aevil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the alight by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same bjudgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
When I judge things, behaviors, choices, places, peoples' choices & behaviors, I use HIS STANDARDS AND LAWS, not mine; this way I can make righetous choices for myself and those around me, and I can support and show my love for my God following His ways, seeking to establish HIS laws, not mine!
James 1: 5
5 aIf any of you lack bwisdom, let him ask of God, that cgiveth to all men liberally, and dupbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Ps. 119: 27, 34, 73
27 Make me to aunderstand the way of thy precepts: so shall I talk of thy wondrous works.
• • •
34 Give me aunderstanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
• • •
73 Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.
Prov. 2: 2-3, 6, 9, 11
2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine aheart to understanding;
3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
• • •
6 For the Lord giveth awisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and bunderstanding.
• • •
9 Then shalt thou aunderstand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.
May we all grow in understanding as we incline our ears to hear, and our hearts to desire what God desires!
Peace & love!
We should be focusing on doing what WE believe is right in my opinion, and not on what we believe that others are doing is wrong. Let God take care of that - He is much more fair, just and wise than we could ever be. I think we all need to just focus on ourselves - we need enough work as it si
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It is not our place to be judgemental. We are put on this earth to Love and to share God's Love with others. If we sit in judgement we send a message to others that God is selective in his Love and that is not the case. God IS Love. I think people would be better to focus on the good people do, and encourage them, than to focus and banter over something is only going to encourage negativity.
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After looking at the flow chart ( thank you for posting that) I have some questions..
First of all - I have heard of being "sealed" in marriage that carries over to Heaven. Now according to what I have read here - there are different levels of heaven, based on how "good" (for lack of a better word) you are on earth.
Now, if someone were sealed in marriage - is that all thrown out the window if someone is "better" ( again, can't think of a better word) than the other? what happens in that case?
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J
In short, I have seen no Christian religion that does not require a condition be met before salvation is given. Given that your belief also requires a condition be met before salvation is recieved, it appears your argument is special pleading. In other words, both positions here require that some condition(s) be met before salvation is given freely, yet without justified reason, you are claiming that your position is salvation given freely, while the LDS position is not. This position isn't logically sustainable.
I would just like to comment on the above ..
There is no condition in Christianity. Salvation is free for the "taking" - taking being an action. Going back to the car dealership example that was used. If I say you can have a free car - do you not have to accept it to make it yours? If I hand you a towel - do you not have to physically reach out and take that towel before it becomes a gift? No one can be given a gift if they do not accept it..
Just my take on it :)
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personally am trying not to focus on the human souls that I will be around, and trying to focus on the wonderful time I am going to have with our Heavenly Father. I don't need to collect multiple souls to make my time there any better - IT'S ALREADY HEAVEN :)
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I don't understand the baptising of the dead for a few reasons.
Firstly - It is not a "requirement" or a "necessity" - as Jesus told the thief on the Cross with him that he would join him in paradise - the thief was not baptized.
Secondly - It is a sign of obediance. I don't think we can show others obediance - that sort of defeats the purpose?
Thirdly - it is a symbol of your commitment. How can we commit for others? We can not make those decisions for other people, which is the whole point of why God gave us Free Will.
I just dont' understand it at all...
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I agree with Prison C. on the interpretation of Thess.
The NIV version reads: "Now about brotherly love we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other. 10And in fact, you do love all the brothers throughout Macedonia. Yet we urge you, brothers, to do so more and more. "
If you read several different translations, you will see that the meaning is the same, the only translation that, if you were looking, could be interpreted to mean to something else is the KJV.
I highly doubt that anywhere in the Bible does it say that God's people should not look to His word in the Bible for direction. To step away from the Bible is very dangerous ground I believe......
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I agree that when we lose focus on the Father, we lose focus on the thing that is most important in this life, and that is our relationship with Him.
However, I believe that what we do here on earth is very important. For the past 6 months I've been going through a lot of soul searching as to wheather I am LDS by birth, or LDS by *choice*. I've looked into other Christian doctrines, and while the "once saved always saved" doctrine has it's appeal, to me it makes God seem rather two dimentional. From what I've learned of other churches, they believe God created us in our mother's wombs, and all we have to do in this life is come unto Christ and be saved. If we fail at that one thing then we're damned to Hell. Period. But God knows all things, so surely He must know that not all of His children will have a fair shot at making that choice. There are middle eastern countries where Christianity is *outlawed* under punnishment of death! How are these children supposed to learn of Christ? Is that fair? Are they expected to make a greater sacrifice than those of us who live in Christian countries, to follow the Lord? To watch their entire families be killed by their government?
And why would Christ give commandments if He didn't expect us to obey them? Were they merely advice? If it's non-Christians living clean lives that ends up making the world a better place, and "born-again Christians" who are making life miserable for everyone, does that glorify God? (not saying this is happening on a large scale, but I have met many wonderful athiests and many far-from-nice "Christians")
And why did God create mankind? That's one question I haven't found a satisfying answer for in any other church besides LDS. Was it so he could have millions of underlings worshiping Him? If He loved us, would He not want more for us than that? Would He not want to raise us up and help us experience the joy that He feels? And why would He create mankind knowing that the vast majority of them would end up in Hell simply for not choosing him? The LDS belief that only those who *knowingly* reject Christ will end up in Hell makes Heavenly Father seem much more just, and loving, and pure. Those who don't repent of their sins won't recieve as high a glory in Heaven, and still may not be in God's presense, but the "damnation" of being cut off from Eternal Progression seems much more just than being sent to burn in brimstone because of one mistake you made in an otherwise honorable life.
My seminary teacher used an awesome diagram to explain Grace to us. She drew a pit that represented our fallen state, with a rope hanging from the top that represented the Atonement. Some of us will grab onto the rope, decide that climbing out of the pit is too hard, and let go. Some of us will grab onto the rope, and stay right there at whatever point on the rope we grabbed on to. And some of us will grab onto the rope and start climbing. We'll fall sometimes, but through repentence His Divine Forgiveness will lift us back onto the rope, to the same point we were at when we fell, and we'll be allowed to continue our assent. And because the pit is far too deep for us to climb out of on our own, Our Savior is standing at the top, pulling the rope towards Him, so that we are able to accomplish more than we could have ever hoped to accomplish on our own, and so we'll progress much further than those who let go, and be stronger Spiritually, and have a closer relationship with Him, from working with Him to draw ourselves to Him, than those who merely hang on and wait for Christ to pull them to the top. Grace is offered to all, but not everyone gets the same results from it. God is watching what we do with His Gift.
I honestly believe that we are unable to understand some things and I am ok with that. I can not expect my human mind to wrap itself around God's will and God's reasons for things, and if He wanted us to understand why He created us, and why He does what He does then He would have explained it to us. He hasn't and that is ok. He does not answer to us - we answer to Him and He does not owe us a justification for anything. I am unable to understand God , and to try would be futile.
I find that some religions try to give people answers, to over explain the unexplainable. That takes away from Faith. God has put me on this earth - I have a purpose, and I have His word to guide me through it. That's all I have to go with. I try to keep my head clear of what man tells me, and try to keep my focus on what God has told us. If someone says that God told them something, I refer to the Bible and what God has told us about someone speaking for Him, if it doesn't add up I make my choice.
I really believe we don't have all of the answers, because we are incapable of understanding them. We just have to hold on to God's word and not over analyze everything and have faith. It's a daily commitment, and easier some times than others.
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I have learned that Grace of GOD is applied differently for the sinners and for the righteous.
Grace of GOD for sinners......Is time given to repent before Justice demands judgments. For each sin God gives a person an allotted time to repent - Before the consequence of that sin impacts his life.
I absolutely respectully disagree.
Where in the Bible does it say that there are seperate kinds of Grace? And where does it say we have an allotted time to repent before it impacts our lives?
If I were to go into a store and steal a chocolate bar for instance. I get caught. While I confess my sins to God, HE forgives me and that is what is important, I still must deal with the consequences of my actions here on earth. Throughout the Bible Men and women sinned - God Forgave them, but still there were reprocussions. Look at the very first book. Cain and Able. He was forgiven by God, and given a mark of protection - but he still was exiled. To me that tells me that I can have forgiveness of God, but I will still face consequences on earth, but God will stand by me throughout.
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Jesus gave his life that we should not have to lose ours. Jesus forgave us of all of our sins and said all we need to do is believe in Him, ask for His forgiveness and the Kingdom of God is ours. It's simple.
All this earthly stuff is not important, and takes away from the true meaning of a relationship with our Heavenly Father. HE is what is important. Not following a man made lifestyle. - not any of this. This all just clouds and blurrs the true purpose and takes away from something very special that has graciously been given to us. We are so loved, and so treasured, and so forgiven by God - we are His children - and none of this is important. Clouding this beautiful gift we have been given with analytical gibberish only tarnishes our ability to accept the purity of gift IMO.
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I don't understand - is there a point here?
What does it matter who killed who and how many?
I'm getting the sense that there is some sort of underlying purpose to the original post and I'm kind of confused as to what it is.
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Yeah, we got 3 Heavens dude, don't worry about it. You're totally covered!
Where in the Bible does it talk about 3 Heavens?
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The Bible makes no mention of turning Cain to a negro or darkening his skin..
"[a] ; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him."
This mark was a symbol of protection and grace from God. I don't know understand how the darkening of the skin even got into play as there is no mention of it in the Bible.
The other mentionings of "marks" in the Bible refer to tatoos, markings,markings on foreheads, the mark of the Beast, so why would anyone associate that with God punishing people by turning the black?
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No, you're not "alone" in your feelings. I am sure a lot of people agree with you.
There are also a lot of people, I'm sure, who believe in this statement.
And it wasn't just President Snow. This was also taught by Joseph Smith.
And we can all agree that God's word would supercede that of Joseph Smith and President Snow?
This is honestly what makes me question some of the LDS teachings. I feel like they are in direct contradiciton with what the Bible tells us, and when questioning this it is always met with "Well the Bible actually meant such and such" or the like. Basically saying the Bible is wrong, or misunderstood, and that the words of Man are right. That someone 3000 years later can better explain to us what was happening, than the men in the Bibles first hand accounts of it. Some things in the Bible are blatantly clear - and changing something as simple as "I am not Man" to fit man's ideas just does not seem right.
Just my take on things..
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Tell me, how do you explain President Snow's statement?
“As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be”
Clearly this is not a reference to Christ, but to Elohim.
This is what frightens me... When someone deemed a prophet or leader within the Church ( President Snow for instance) makes a comment it is taken as solid and truth. When God makes a statement " I am not man!" the value of a Prophets word is put higher than His, and reasons for the "miswording" of the Bible are given.. ( writing style etc).
Am I alone in this feeling?
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In the Book of Moses, correction to Genesis, it was Lucifer who try to claim that position.
The book of Moses is not in the Bible and comes from Joseph Smith.
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13:4 Jehovah of the Old Testament, who delivered Israel from the land of Egypt, is also Jesus Christ of the New Testament. As stated here, "there is no saviour beside me."
Hosea 13
4 "But I am the LORD your God,
who brought you out of Egypt.
You shall acknowledge no God but me,
no Savior except me.
In the old Testament what other Savior was there?
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"I am not man" means that he is not CARNAL or ruled by the flesh - to lie, to lust, to cheat and steal, etc.
He is our God and an Exaulted Being who is above such carnal instincts. That is what the scripture means.
Just my $.02 and I am not trying to stir up any contention, but that is what I believe is the intent behind that scripture.
I respectfully disagree.. If God were a man once, I believe He would have told us in the Bible in a way that there would be no doubt. He has told us that He is not man, and I don't understand why when something is stated plainly - that anyone would try to change His words to mean otherwise..
I love your .02 - and I'm certainly very thankful that we can all have this conversation in a respectful way.. It's a nice change when seperate views can be debated with mutual respect. :)
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It is Hosea writing abilities and what he wrote. One sense he said, God was not man, the other hand there is no Savior.
If God is not man, then what is written in Genesis from Moses prospective is false also: "Let us make man in our image..."
Now your point is validate since it is written in that particular style.
I think taking God's word and discarding it with the justification that it was a writing style is a dangerous line..
Even if that were the case, I do not understand how this can be attributed to writing style "For I am God, and not man— the Holy One among you. ".
Numbers 23:29 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent."
Making something in an image, does not mean they are, or ever were, the same. If I were to paint a picture in my image - does that mean that piece of paper becomes me?
It looks like me - but does that mean that that I ever was a piece of paper? No.. it will always remain a piece of paper, and I will always remain of flesh and blood. What about dolls? They are created in mans image - does that mean that they were ever man or will become man? Or the fact that man created a doll - does that mean man once was a doll?
Where did Hosea say there was no savior? I can not find him saying those words...
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My favorite is Michael Mclean...:)
Let do a quick pique for you regarding this book: the Book of Hosea itself begins by showing Jevovah's anger with the children of Israel, whose unfaithfulness toward God is compared to the unfaithfulness of harlots [Hos 2:4-5, 9:15]. But by the end of the book, somehow God's heart is softened [Hos 11:1-3, 8-9, 13:4,9]
We are talking about Jehovah and not GOD the FATHER. Without understanding the author veiwpoint, what is happening, location, and timeframe, you are only taking this out of content. Hosea even mentions that there is no Savior beside him. Remember that verse? What? No Savior? We know differently there is a Savior - namely Jehovah or Jesus Christ. Do you see what I am saying here?
I see what you are saying but I don't see how by your examples that it is being taken out of context.
Regardless of what was going on, God said the words "I am not man". It does not matter why he said it. "I am not man" can not mean anything other that the words "I am not man" -
In some cases yes scripture can be taken out of context - but not in this case..
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Good to hear that....music can bring peace unto our soul.
It really does, and music makes me feel closer to God - and the music at this Baptist Church is amazing!!
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Which scripture are you trying to refer too?
Hos 11:9
9 I will not carry out my fierce anger,
nor will I turn and devastate Ephraim.
For I am God, and not man—
the Holy One among you.
I will not come in wrath. [c]
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It does if you are becoming learneth individual within that domination. It helps to see what and why on your responses.
It doesn't chaneg a thing actually. My faith lies on the word of God not the word of Man. I go to a Baptist Church because I like the music :)
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Shell, nice to see you quoting scriptures. However, I brought this subject up before. Quoting and then knowing what the author thoughts being conveyed is never the same for some.
Please don't tell me that you are professing that God meant something else with the words " I am God and Not Man"
Infant baptism
in Christian Beliefs Board
Posted
Infant baptism is a catholic practice.