Shell72
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Posts posted by Shell72
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Yes.
Take the simple fact that there are so many LDS who are convinced that their church is the restoration of Christ's church on earth, and there are so many Protestants and Catholics who believe that Joseph Smith was not a true prophet. Many on both sides are very assured of their beliefs, and would tell you that the Holy Spirit had born witness to their conviction.
Jesus himself said that on the Day of Judgment many would proclaim that they had done much in his name, and He would respond that He did not know them.
So, clearly, it is possible to have false spiritual assurance.
We've not even touched on the 1.3 billion Muslim, who are convinced that Muhammed was both a true prophet and the last one.
Do you believe that those who do not believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet are not saved?
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You're not. The vision didn't change, but the parts he chose to emphasize for others' learning did.
That doesn't add for me.
If he saw Angels, and in another telling he saw God, and in another telling God said one thing, and in another telling God didn't say anything.
Don't you think if something as monumental as God actually uttering audible words to you happened - that would not be a detail that you would not tell immediately? I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I assure you, I just dont' understand.
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Couldnt that same argument be applied to the Christ showing up so many thousands of years after Adam and eve? Maybe God was waiting for the time when the world would be in a better position to receive it, by giving it 200 years to get some foundation before the technology age. Its not like Mormons teach that people before Joseph Smith are SOL. There is that whole spirit world scene.
I suppose you have a point there. But.. in that argument God sent his own Son. Joseph Smith was a plain old human no different than you or I and his first vision changed greatly throughout his years of telling the world of it if I am correct in what I am reading.
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I'm a non LDS and I am here because a family member joined an LDS church and I just found out about it. I have a lot of questions, concerns and am mostly looking for answers as to what he has gotten involved in. Sometimes I get fiesty but I really do try to remain respectful.
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I found this in one of the older threads.(2004) Rather than bump that thread I am posting this new. My responses are in red.
One Sunday morning during service, a 2,000 member congregation was surprised to see two men enter, both covered from head to toe in black and carrying submachine guns. One of the men proclaimed, "Anyone willing to take a bullet for Christ remain where you are."
Immediately, the choir fled, the deacons fled, and most of the congregation fled. Out of the 2,000 there only remained around 20.
The man who had spoken took off his hood, looked at the preacher and said "Okay Pastor, I got rid of all the hypocrites. Now you may begin your service. Have a nice day!" And the two men turned and walked out.
The Pastor is to be the Shepherd of God’s flock, not the wolf. What a sick and pathetic thing that this man of God would resort to do to his congregation. Even the men he hired to rid his flock of hypocrites were hypocrites, because they walked out too. They did not sit down and listen to the pastor. Jesus Christ preached to the sinners and hypocrites, He did not terrorize them. Those people who fled are far from being hypocrites.
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God ... and then wonder why the world is in the condition it is today. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how everyone wants to go to heaven provided they do not have to believe, think, say, or do anything the Bible says. Funny or is it scary? Funny how someone can say "I believe in God" but still follow Satan (who, by the way, also "believes" in God).
'There is nothing funny about any of this. Not funny in a Ha Ha sense, not funny in a peculiar sense either. Satan is battling hard for our souls, and he is using these types of emails to pound more guilt into us. Yes, it is scary. It is scary that our brothers and sisters use these kinds of tactics to guilt us to love Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.
Satan of course believes in God- he is a son of God, a fallen son to be sure, but son non-the less. We are taught to choose the right. To do that we must learn what the right is. To learn is to question. We ask, we are answered. We ponder and pray, we are answered. By living the commandments we are able to HEAR and HEED those answers.
Funny how you can send a thousand 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene pass freely through cyber space, but the public discussion of Jesus is suppressed in the school and work place. Funny, isn't it? Funny how someone can be so fired up for Christ on Sunday, but be an invisible Christian the rest of the week.
This email is not a message regarding the Lord. It is a sick, twisted and pathetic attempt to guilt one into passing on more email trash. The jokes that are sent via the email, that do travel like wildfire are email trash too.
Jesus Christ never humiliated, threatened, cajoled, or guilted anyone into worshipping God the Father, or in following the commandments.
Are you laughing?
Funny how when you go to forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it to them. Funny how I can be more worried about what other people think of me than what God thinks of me.
Are you thinking? Will you share this with people you care about? Or not?
I refused to pass this email on when I first received it from my catholic ex sister-in-law. I responded to her, though not with the same words I have responded here. The words I used were personalized for her.
What I told her about passing this email on was that the people in my address book are my family and/or members of my Church. None of them deserves to be guilted into loving God and Jesus Christ. None of them need or deserve to be guilted into loving one another.
Jesus Christ does not want us to be forced or guilted into loving Him or forced/guilted into obeying Him. Heavenly Father gave us Agency. Personally, I think that Agency is the number one most perfect and loving gift that Father gave to us.
I don't believe that the pastor in this story hired these men - I believe that this story carries a strong message about how it is easy for any person to sit within the comforts of thier church and speak and agree with what is being said, but as in this story - when faced with the true battle that God wishes us to fight - for him, many cower and do not have the faith that we should.
I think instead of finding the negative in this email - a positive lesson could be learned, although I do agree with your comments however that Jesus does not want us to be forced or guilted into loving him.
So many talk the talk yet do not walk the walk - that is the message here I believe.
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Personally i am not upset at LDS thinking God has with his wife spirit children. If they know more than i do about the matter that's ok with me. And i do favor the idea Jesus created spirit's, but it does not matter to me so much whether they are born, or uncreated spirit's as in Joseph Smith's idea. I find the last two ideas as speculative. But i feel some LDS critic's upset by what they regard as endless celestial sex is not something i am upset over.
LDS never talk of "endless celestial sex" LDS critic's alone brought together those three words to mock the spirit children idea.
I am reading again a book entitled Jesus Christ/Joseph Smith by Floyd Mcelveen. And instead of focusing on the positive aspect's of being spirit children of God he mock's a bunch of time's the wonderful idea of the Heavenly Father and Mother having spirit children together.
I recall Gilbert Schwarffs the author of the Truth About The Godmakers saying something about critic's objection to either eternal pregnancy, or the sex. I may have spelled his name wrong. I recall him as writing he was uncertain if LDS official doctrine was clear on whether God's method of having spirit children is the same as man's way of having physical children.
I think the question's are great. They indicate areas of concern people have about LDS doctrine. I have not found any church free of what outsider's might think heresy. I do not think Evangelicalism as orthodox as they claim, and i have come to think Mormonism more true than they think.
Why would any human be concerned with God and sex in the same sentence? This does seem to be rather disturbing that someone would put thought and words into the subject.
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From what I gather (at least as I can remember) the Mormon doctrines say that the previous model Christians (like me) would predominately find themselves in the 2nd rung of heaven (the Terrestrial I believe) due to their faith and service in Christs name, but unable to reach the top level (Celestial?) due to not accepting the full revelation.
Which I have a great problem with. Why - when our God is the all being and all knowing and expects total devotion from his followers - would He wait until the 1800's - basically 3800 years after He created Adam and Eve to fully reveal Himself? Do people believe that they are more worthy and accepting than those created prior to this time period and only they are going to reach the "top level" ?
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Number 2: Yes, and religion isn't mentioned.
Number 3: Yes and if you believe it will follow that people will know you by your acts.
Number 1...I'm thinking of the model of prayer here.
Number 2 - No.. "religion" isn't mentioned. The only way is believing that Jesus is your Savior. I believe "religion" is manmade and not of God. What everyone should be striving for is a personal relationship with the One who matters.
Number 3 - Yes people will know by our acts - but I believe we also have a responsibility ( not a requirement to get to Heaven) to do God's work while we are on earth.
Number 1 - yup - wouldn't be referred to as a "model prayer" for no reason :)
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Saved does not equal attaining the highest degree of glory.
I didn't see "highest level of glory" in his post.
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I kind of moved away from fundamentalism because certain things made me very unhappy and I couldn't accept them.
Here they are:
1. That I wanted to pray to God the Father and honour him, not start with Dear Jesus for all of my prayers because this isn't what Jesus would have wanted.
2. That everyone who doesn't believe what I do is going to hell, irregardless, if they are not born again and saved...God has a plan that is bigger than that.
3. That faith is more important than works. There is something a bit dodgy about believing that you don't have to do anything at all, except mumble a few words every now and then and your relationship with God is right. I don't think that's the true message.
1: John 14:6 - Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
2: John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
3: Romans 10:9 - If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved
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But if God knew people would argue with him i could see him waiting on giving a revelation. .
Shouldn't people have known all along not to argue with God?
Do I believe the wrong things?
in Christian Beliefs Board
Posted
Isn't that how God describes it as well?
Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16 *14 -16