Shell72
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Posts posted by Shell72
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Here are some more scriptures regarding this topic..
"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25
"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9
To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9
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Shell, you never answered my question on what is your theleogical background. Just curious.
My theological background?
Are you asking if I am Christian? Yes.
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The Bible is quite Clear to me...
Number 23:19
"God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
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Probably not the WHOLE Bible.
But... Where, Shell, does the Bible say that after you forgive a man you must put him and yourself in the same situation in which he created the incident that needed forgiving?
"If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."
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call me picky, but...isnt the word of God made known through His prophets? Im just sayin....
if you could point me to where in the bible it says that God directs the prophets change what he directed regarding forgiveness - then I will gladly agree with you.:)
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I have never known a prophet to directly contradict the Bible. I just can't imagine it happening.
].
"no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith Every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance... I cannot go there without his consent.… "
But the Bible says..
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also."
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I believe I referenced a wizened Prophet, and not Deity.
But would you not agree that the word of God would superceded that of a prophet?
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President Hinckley said you can forgive a man, but that does not mean you ever have to do business with him again.
I don't recall God ever saying anything like that.
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Where's your reference for this? And remember, any links to anti sites will be deleted.
My reference? The History of the LDS.
It has nothing to do with anti-mormon sites it has to do with the facts - even the pro-mormon and neutral sites attest to this.
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Yes, if a prophet tells me Heavenly Father was once a man then I believe him.
Would you not question the prophets validity if he told you something that directly contradicted what the Bible says?
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You make a lot of good points.
Here's my own view of why Polygamy is no longer practiced by the LDS church.
First, the Church already had plenty of persecution BEFORE they began to practice Polygamy
When the Church went west to the Utah Valley, they petitioned the U.S. for statehood.
With so much persecution, it stands to reason that some kind of cessation would have to be made by the church as a material gesture (and give in to the powers of men that govern the nation).
How about a practice that the Lord instituted for the later purpose of giving it up to gain statehood in the U.S. and future stability and prosperity to His Church and its members?
Just my thoughts.
I respectfully disagree. Joseph Smith started the LDS movement and he also started polygamy within the LDS simutaneously - there could have been no persecution of the church BEFORE ( as you stated) polygamy as it all started at the same time..
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Having been in your shoes - I can say my heart hurts for you.
The most important thing for you to understand and accept in this situation is that no matter what happened, when the whole truth comes out ( and it will
) that none of this was becasue of any shortcomings you have - but the opposite. This has nothing to do with your appearance, your personality, your intelligence nothing - so please keep those thoughts out of your mind. What he did was hurtful, selfish, and intentional (common sense dictates that when you engage in behavior that you would not do in front of your wife, it would hurt her). He chose his actions, and now putting your family back together is his responsibility. My advice is pray, pray and pray some more. Infidelity is not a light misdemeanor - it is one of only two reasons the Bible says you can get divorced. It is serious business and he has brought serious issues to your marriage. Pray for peace, guidance and the ability to keep your children from the pain this causes.
I would suggest he get another job if he wants your marriage to work.. it is not fair to you that he and she continue to work together.
I am so sorry you are going through this .. especially at such a beautiful time in your life..
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I saw with my own eyes the broadcast on television of ATF agents lighting the building on fire with a blowtorch mounted on the top of an armoured vehicle.
Your above quote is frankly full of bull.
The ATF burned those people. I don't know why they did, but I saw them do it. It was this very event that made me realize how potentially corrupt things are. There could be no doubt that the ATF did it. The footage showed them showering the building with flames.
They also broadcast footage of the exchange of gunfire that killed the ATF agents and it was clear that they were shooting at one another.
-a-train
I do not believe that for a second - one of the reasons is, there was a child that was stabbed to death in the compound while all of this was going on. The ATF reported hearing systematic gunfire, and they believed a mass suicided was going on. If it were only gun injuries that resulted - then the argument could be made that the AFT inflicted the injuries. The fact that a child was stabbed INSIDE while this was happening adds credence to the ATF claims that a mass suicide was taking place ,and they did the right thing in trying to stop it in my opinion.
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It was reported last night that after the childrens cell phones were confiscated because Social Services felt as though the mothers were phoning the children and coaching them as to what to say - that the women returned to the compound..
This in itself is frightening.
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Traveller - an excellent post.. ( The chevy/garage analogy made me crack up! well done)
I am 100% behind you in the belief that it is not the Church or the 'religion' that brings you closer to God.. All these rules of the "true Church" and the "only way" are of man - and not of God.
"no one comes to the Father except through Me"
That is all we need to remember............
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Where in the Bible does it say that a "true" church must have 17 points? There is no mention in the Bible of a "true Church" and it's requirements. This is a man made todo list IMO and the only truth is in our relationship with Jesus..
Regarding the 17 points
1 - Most protestant faiths has Christ as the head of thier church, as he is to be the head of our lives.
2 - Ephesians 5:23 says nothing about bearing the name of Jesus Christ. It just furthur re-iterates what I said above - That Christ should be the head of the Church.
3 - Eph 2:19 - This is not a commandment - this is a statement of what our family is in Christ "Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. ( THis is one of my favorite passages...)
.......I could go through each one but I hope you are seeing what I am getting at. There is no mention of a "True Church" or a "Valid Church" or any of that.. The only "Must haves for a True Church" are the ones in your post. I see nothing of that in the Bible.
Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.–Matt. 18:20
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I've just never seen so much hatred before from people that claim to be Christians.
Maybe it's not hatred bjw. Maybe it is fear. Maybe they are afraid that someone they love so deeply is getting involved in something they they believe to be wrong. The Bible tells us to honor our parents..
Exodus 20:12
"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you
Matthew 15:4
For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death
Maybe if you showed them that you respect thier views and spent some time showing them that you have well researched this, and have an honest open debate about this it may change things.
Always hold in your heart, that if they did not love you so much they would not fear for you. For that - be thankful :)
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Burning the building down with the children inside is a little overboard I'd say. We need to be very careful to avoid mob activity.
-a-train
That didn't happen in this case though - the people resisted but then complied with the search. If they have done nothing wrong, then I am sure they will get their compound back the way it was..
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I can remember seeing them burn the Branch Dividians to death in Waco while saying: 'they burned themselves' on television. They actually broadcast footage of the flamethrowers lighting the building and had the nerve to lie like that.
I just read several articles mentioning a bed on the third floor of the FLDS building with what looked to be a female hair on it. How do we know that bed is not for a security guard or for leadership who are expected to stay in the building on shifts through the night or something? Do we know who the hair actually belongs too? Are they married? Whether they are or not, does their hair on the bed prove they have been sexually violated?
Why are they printing information from unnamed informants? These people might be total sickos perverting the symbols and ordinances of the temple in a most disgusting manner, but none of this has yet to prove it.
Regardless, it seems law enforcement is working hard with the media to ruin these people in the realm of public opinion.
-a-train
If I am recalling correctly a woman who left that compound prior to the raid has been on the news circuit talking about what happened in that compound..
I think people should get outraged at this sort of thing - perhaps the outrage may save others. My heart just aches for the young women and children that have lived like this. It's no way for a person to exist...
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I agree with the "what matters most" is the relationship with God, specifically, the person of Jesus Christ.
But that is where my agreement ends, for while there are many roads to truth, in the end, there is only one truth, and it is embodied in ONE Church, not thousands. That Church has Priesthood and specific ordinances and covenants that are taken upon ourselves in a specific place, the Temple. So I can't go around agreeing that "it mattereth not what church you join" when it does matter.
I don't want to contend against other faiths. I don't want to tell them "they are wrong". All I have is my personal witness of which church I believe to be THE true Church. In my view, other faiths serve good purposes. They teach a basic belief in God WHICH IS A GOOD THING. I would never want to dissuade them from that. But they do not have the ordinances and covenants God has said are needful. They do not have the Priesthood.
Now, members of those other faiths don't need to prove me "wrong" or "right". I am not posting to debate it. Just to declare my witness.
The Bible is quite clear
"No one comes to the father except through Me".
So the way I see it, the Church in itself is a tool, where we go to learn, worship together and seek truth. The personal relationship with Jesus is the key, not the Temple, not covenants, not anything that any single religion practices in my opinon. Live by the word of God, and the rest seems insignificant in my eyes.
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An LDS bishop in my community from Samoa with several children sadly lost His youngest to a fall down a concrete set of stairs at the back door of their home. The toddler was not alone, but sustained a head injury on a concrete corner. The child was taken immediately to an emergency room where he died.
As if this was not a great enough tragedy, the remaining children were taken from the family and placed in foster care for several months while an investigation was conducted. The younger children were questioned and the father was implicated in physical abuse.
At the end of a long legal battle and ridiculous mess, the family was restored and together they grieved.
Young children were asked questions like: 'Does dad get mad?', 'Does dad spank you?' etc.
A teenage girl who lives across the street from me escaped the rules of her mom by claiming her step-father had molested her. She now lives with her pot-smoking dad while her brother remains with her mom, step-father, step-brother and step-sister. She openly told her friends in our neighborhood that she lied so her mother would lose custody and allow her to live with her dad. Things looked bad for her step-father because he once struck his wife's ex-hubby when the ex brought the kids home while driving intoxicated.
I hope and pray that the just and right course of action will become apparent and be pursued in the case of these FLDS people. If indeed there is some molestation, I hope the perpetrators are rightfully punished and the victims spared further harm.
-a-train
On the flip side though - many times children that are not taken out of homes should be. We can not fault the CPS for ensuring that children are safe.
Had the tradgedy with the little one falling down the stairs not been an accident, and the other children were hurt by the parents - Everyone would be screaming "Why didnt' they do something after one died?".
I feel so bad for CPS as it seems they are horrible if they do and horrible if they don't. I do believe they have the best interests of children at heart, and will make mistakes as they are human, but thank goodness they do what they do.
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I see a temptation in trying to fit in with groups of men who hate Mormonism. I am Community of Christ/RLDS. But if i listened to my Evangelical friends i feel that would effect my relationship with God. I know they don't have a better God so i am going to keep my God. Their God tells them to hate Mormonism and mine tells me to keep my beliefs.
Seeking answers and truth are great, but do not seek the confusion of men.
I don't understand the "their God, my God" thing.. There is but one God - and it is our personal relationship with him that matters - no matter which Church you choose to worship Him in. If Man is telling you something that you feel contradicts what has directly been told to you in the Bible - then you need to step back and think and not blindly follow. Blind faith in man's words open one up to deception.
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Did anyone even make this contention? I sure didn't. My point is that it's pretty darn dangerous if the state decides that these children need to be taken from their families and then "deprogramed". Like I said, hard cases make for bad laws. What's next, some polygamist group that actually has a sane leader? Shall we take their kids away? How about if we discover some Muslims who are practicing polygamy -- heck, steal their kids too? Maybe we could get some Jewish foster parents! And you think this government can be trusted with this sort of power? Maybe next they can take kids away from some Pentecostals who belong to a militia or maybe some Catholics who are teaching their kids that abortion and homosexuality are sins.
You may think this slippery slope won't occur here but maybe you should look across the pond to Europe -- look how homeschoolers in Belgium, Germany and Sweden are persecuted. It can happen here.
I am thankful that the gov't stepped in and rescued these children.
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Sorry Shell - it's called progress.
Sorry - that is not progress. That is digressing back to Feudalism.
) that none of this was becasue of any shortcomings you have - but the opposite. This has nothing to do with your appearance, your personality, your intelligence nothing - so please keep those thoughts out of your mind. What he did was hurtful, selfish, and intentional (common sense dictates that when you engage in behavior that you would not do in front of your wife, it would hurt her). He chose his actions, and now putting your family back together is his responsibility.
Do you think that God once was a man?
in Christian Beliefs Board
Posted
relevance?
I attended a fellowship church (multi-denominational) growing up, and have recently began attending a Baptist Church in the city I moved in.
My Church of choice does not define me - my beliefs in the Bible and God's word define me - I hope you can accept that.