Traveler
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The following is a telephone exchange between a hotel guest and room-service, at a hotel in Asia, which was recorded and published in the Far East Economic Review:
To get the full effect, this should be read aloud. You will understand what 'tenjewberrymuds' means by the end of the conversation. This has been nominated for the best email of 2005.
Room Service (RS): "Morrin. Roon sirbees."
Guest (G): "Sorry, I thought I dialed room-service."
RS: "Rye..Roon sirbees..morrin! Jewish to oddor sunteen??"
G: "Uh..yes..I'd like some bacon and eggs."
RS: "Ow July den?"
G: "What??"
RS: "Ow July den?...pryed, boyud, poochd?"
G : "Oh, the eggs! How do I like them? Sorry, scrambled please."
RS: "Ow July dee baykem? Crease?"
G: "Crisp will be fine."
RS : "Hokay. An Sahn toes?"
G: "What?"
RS:"An toes. July Sahn toes?"
G: "I don't think so."
RS: "No? Judo wan sahn toes??"
G: "I feel really bad about this, but I don't know what 'judo wan sahn toes'
means."
RS: "Toes! toes!...Why jew don juan toes? Ow bow Anglish moppin we bodder?"
G: "English muffin!! I've got it! You were saying 'Toast.' Fine. Yes, an English muffin will be fine."
RS: "We bodder?"
G: "No...just put the bodder on the side."
RS: "Wad?"
G: "I mean butter...just put it on the side."
RS: "Copy?"
G: "Excuse me?"
RS: "Copy...tea...meel?"
G: "Yes. Coffee, please, and that's all."
RS: "One Minnie. Scramah egg, crease baykem, Anglish moppin we bodder on sigh and copy....rye??"
G: "Whatever you say."
RS: "Tenjewberrymuds."
G : "You're very welcome."
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As a scientist trained in math and physics and experience in automation and robotics with significant exposure to artificial intelligence – I find this thread fun and amusing but not particularly helpful and informative, except as it relates to individual expression of their beliefs. As a member of the LDS faith, taught in the rigors of ordinance and covenant with a devotion to truth I also feel that some serious considerations are being overlooked and discarded.
I will begin with an amusing story of a young boy on a Sunday afternoon having a discussion with his father, a devout member of faith. The father asks, “What did you learn today at Sunday School?”
Son: “We learned about Moses leaving Egypt with the Israelite hostages that he was attempting to free.”
Father: “This sounds interesting – why don’t you tell me about it?”
Son: “Well Moses had been negotiating with the Pharaoh for the release of all the Israelite hostages but the negotiations kept breaking down because the Pharaoh was not really willing to negotiate. Finely Moses gave an order to his secret commandos to kill an older child in all the families of the government officials, including the Pharaoh. This caused the Pharaoh to release the hostages but as they were leaving Egypt Pharaoh sent his entire army, tanks, infantry, artillery everything he had to destroy Moses and the hostages.
Moses discovered that the Egyptian army was coming with his aerial recognizance and ordered his commandos to set up an ambush at a narrow pass. There was this big firefight and the commandos fought hard but were badly out numbered. It was a bad situation because Moses and everybody else were trapped against the Red Sea. Moses sent orders to his commandos to hold as long as they could and had his combat engineers build a pontoon bridge across the Red Sea. After Moses got across with the hostages he sent word to his commandos to retreat across the bridge and set charges as they came.
When the commandos crossed the bridge the Egyptian army followed right behind and as soon as the commandos got across they blew up the bridge – the entire Egyptian army was stuck on the bridge when it blew and were all killed in the explosion or drowned. And that’s how Moses got the hostages out of Egypt.”
Father: “Wow that sounds exciting, but is that really what your teacher told you?”
Son: “Well, not exactly dad, but if I told it to you like he did, you would never believe it.”
One of the biggest problems in discussing religion is the assumptions that are assumed prior to the discussion. Jason, I am rather puzzled with you claim to intellectual high ground with disregard of experience – I would point out that such notions are contrary to scientific method which requires a rigorous duplication of all contributing factors to demonstrate the experience. It doesn’t look like to me that you have attempted the scientific method from your responses - seems to me to reek like of the methods of Aristotle and Plato that are as outdated as scripture, as far as pure access to discovery goes.
It is interesting to me that the lesson (especially the moral lesson) of Moses in Egypt seems to have been missed in this discussion.
The Traveler
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This happens to involve some research I did in college in connection with a quantum mechanics class. Using the same equations from which Einstein developed E = MC**(2) there are some interesting relationships that can be resolved concerning time and space (which will help explain the weirdness of quantum mechanics). This is a fun area to play around because of all the interesting theories that are involved in the fall out. For example we deal with the theories of time space continuum which all depend on time being a dimension (continuous function). This all makes for fun science fiction stuff but the problem is that time may not be a true dimension – which means it is only continuous within certain ranges. In other words we may think of time as a dimension in our defined space therefore making our space 4 dimensions. This is a most important concept when considering theories (especially the Big Bang) of creation that depend on the universe being an expanding 4 dimensional sphere outside of which there is no space or dimension.
Lets deal with some of the interesting mathematical relationships in light in the equations used by Einstein. There are two things. First is that nothing can be accelerated to the speed of light let alone faster. The reason is that the energy is transformed to matter rather than increasing speed as an object of mass as it approaches the speed of light. The second problem is ignored by most of the science fiction writers; in that matter at or beyond the speed of light looses time as a dimension. In essence Einstein calculated and theorized that there is no dimensional platform in our universe to observe this motion. This is why it is said that time stands still but sanding still is not exactly true; in fact it is very misleading. One possible way to explain this phenomenon is to understand that an object at or beyond the speed of light looses time as a dimension and becomes an object in a 3 dimensional universe (parallel to ours) that lacks time. This would explain why objects are never seen going faster than the speed of light and anything at the speed of light has no mass. Any object in a strict 3 dimensional space (height, width and depth) has no relationship to time. This sounds like time is standing still but that is not quite the correct concept. The truth is that it looses time as a property that defines its existence.
What this means is that because time is a dimension in our space that if an object were to reach the speed of light it would appear to vanish from a point in our space and appear somewhere else in our space in the same instant – which would be when the object slowed down from the speed of light – which it must to maintain the second law of thermal dynamics in our universe. What we have experienced and calculated using quantum mechanics is what could be the flip side of this. That is particles in the strict 3 dimensional space which for a moment slow down (oscillate at the speed of light threshold) and appear or leave traces in our 4 dimensional space then are gone. This is called a quantum anomaly. There is much more I could explain but I do not want to upset or bore the forum.
My conjecture in all this is that if G-d (or for that matter anyone else) were able to take advantage of the threshold of the speed of light he could easily connect to or travel to anywhere in the universe in an instant moving objects to and from anywhere. The other fun thing is that at this threshold he would have access to any non object (such as light) at any point of time any place in our 4 dimensional space meaning we could observe all time in our universe but any object of this universe would be bound by the dimension of time regardless how it was moved through the light threshold. Therefore if G-d has a real or physical body (according to LDS theology) any movements G-d himself made in our 4 dimensional space, that orders time, would appear in this space to adhere to time as a continues function. This means that G-d could observe all time instantly in all space but could only appear physically here in singular time space events that adhere to continuity of time and space. This would also mean that time travel is really not possible. Sorry my fellow si-fi friends. Is this fun or what?
The Traveler
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Please: I think the theory of dueling genius is more consequence than it is fact. History is sprinkled with rare genius often surrounded by very smart but lesser talent that bring the genius to public awareness by ether using the genius to advance society or opposing the genius to keep it before the public until someone takes advantages of the offering. If not for the lesser intellect, both pro and con, it appears to me that genius will go unknown and become forgotten.
Take for example the modern field of electrical theory. Many tout the genius of Edison and Marconi but they were minor minions that took credit from the real contemporary genius of a little known figure, Nicola Tesla. Marconi used 17 of Nicola Tesla’s patents in his radio and finely the Smithsonian has recognized Tesla as the real inventor of the radio (most history books have yet to catch up). Edison spent much of his life and fortune trying to either take credit for Tesla inventions or to prove them inferior. The electric chair was built by Edison in attempt to dispel Tesla’s notion of a relative safe simple single AC electrical power source for all electrical needs.
In the last 100 years Tesla’s theories of electrical generation high voltage transmission, distribution, transformers, steppers and compactors for electrical use in factories and homes has remained unchanged and unimproved. Tesla’s claimed to have developed method to transmit electrical power without power lines but Westinghouse having barely spent millions in high voltage transmission infrastructure (that at the time financed and owned the Tesla’s research) destroyed the results and stopped development.
60 years before computers were manufactured, Tesla patented the “and-gate, or-gate and exclusive-or-gate” that is the essence of the modern electrical computer and the reason no one was able to patent the computer. There is much more but I will end here.
The big difference with Tesla is that he left no benefactors to his genus except humanity in general whereas others (Edison and Marconi) left heirs to their legacy to reap large financial benefit by touting their benefactors. It would seem that without worldly benefit few will tout or demean the genus of their generation – thus the obscurity of Nicola Tesla.
The point I would like to make about genus is that unless that genus has its friends to tout the genus or the enemies to scoff and ridicule the genus it will go unnoticed. For the religious, intellectual and theocratic theories, the genus of Joseph Smith Jr is maintained by both those that recognize the eternal connections of his contributions and those that malign his contributions in every way possible. Which was precisely prophesied while Joseph was still an unknown and obscure farm boy.
I am grateful for both the friends and enemies of the teachings of Joseph Smith that use their abilities and fortunes to publish and keep Joseph Smith’s contributions ever before the public that those that seek truth and make an effort to separate truth from error may find the truth (or error) they seek.
The Traveler
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Originally posted by Catholicman@Oct 14 2005, 06:27 PM
Hey everyone, I'm kinda new to the board so bear with me. here is my question: Suppose a member of the LDS church has committed a sin like drinking or fornication and her bishop finds out about it, before she tells him. What would be the process that member would have to go through. And what if that person has a calling in the church at the time.
Anyways I'm catholic so that's why I don't know about this kind of stuff. If you guys have any questions regarding my faith, please ask.
The real goal is the salvation of the sinner. In LDS doctrine nothing is to be done if it does not benefit the person. If a person is not repentant then it may be best to release them from their covenants to prevent them from bringing upon themselves more condemnation because of their covenants. The same applies to any calling because in the LDS faith a calling is by covenant. Often it is best to release a person from their covenant calling while they complete a repentant process.
In the case of excommunication the bishop is counseled that they should prepare a way to assist the person to return to full fellowship. To us excommunication is not throwing away a soul but a act of love and kindness to help restore them to a condition where they can start over in their covenants with G-d - it can be part of a repentant process. However if a person chooses to exclude themselves from the other members that is their choice although not a good one. I am also sad to say that many members misunderstand excommunication that therefore treat the person with contempt - which if they do not repent will stand more condemned before G-d that the person excommunicated.
The Traveler
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Originally posted by Red@Oct 7 2005, 11:22 PM
.................
A handful of your children will become Gods themselves to repeat the cycle. Yes, you will be growing in glory and in love and fellowship with God, but is it worth the sin, suffering and death? Christ died "for the joy that was set before Him," but what real joy or meaning is there in this? The end result is more death on more worlds, and if Christ died so that more people could become Gods and create worlds with more sin on them then Jesus is a murderer. If you seek to attian Celestial glory and Godhood then you are a murderer.
........
God Bless,
Red
Let us take a careful look at the above statement. My poor misguided friend Red. There are many things wrong with your logic. First: G-d is and was G-d before he created. When Genesis says “In the Beginning” G-d already was G-d. As G-d he knew ALL that was to come. He knew it because he planned it so.
During the 6th epoch of creation G-d created man according to Genesis. The ancient Hebrew seems to have slightly different meaning than the modern English interpretation. The ancient Hebrew would have us understand that man was a physical model of G-d himself. In English it is interpreted as “image” and “likeness”. But Genesis goes on in detail of this physical resemblance to indicate that man is copied right down to the maleness and femaleness of the g-ds. As part of this creation of man that copied G-d, Genesis also tells us that G-d placed man in a position of “Dominion” over the earth and every living thing on it. But you, Red witness in your statement that man should not have a dominion over any world because death would make whoever had such a dominion a murderer. But all this that G-d did as we are told of in Genesis is according to G-d’s plan that he knew of, including the outcomes before he even began creation.
Second: G-d knew and planned the details and knew the outcome so that when Adam was placed in Eden G-d knew and planned the outcome. He is the one the placed Adam in Eden without knowledge of good and evil. He planned that the Serpent (Satan) would deceive Adam and Eve and set it up so it could happen and the result was exactly what he knew it would be even before he even began creation. Nothing that happened in Eden was a surprise to G-d. If it was he could not be G-d.
According to your witness - G-d therefore is a murderer. He is the one that set it up and planned it. According to you - G-d is really the one responsible for the death of man. You said it yourself.
However, Red you have not heard the “Good News” or the Gospel. It would appear that no one has explained it to you. I do not have the time or means to explain the Gospel to you - only a part. You see, the truth is that prior to the creation G-d had a great council with his spirit children where he explained his plan to create physical bodies wherein man could experience the good from the evil. He explained his plan to salvage his children from corruption that would come from being exposed to evil. He explained this was necessary before man could understand his righteousness, goodness, mercy and justice. He offered his spiritual children the very freedom that Christ spoke of when the words were spoken, “If you continue in my words then are you my disciple indeed and you will know the truth and the truth shall make you free.” Only G-d is free my poor misguided friend Red. And only when we become a g-d like G-d can we be free as Jesus prophesied. You are mortal and alive today because you chose the path to freedom. But there are others (Satan and his angles) that have rejected the plan of G-d. They plan to prevent your freedom - they plan to deceive you and destroy your gift to know truth and be free - as free as G-d is free.
The Traveler
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Red: There seem to be a large collection of communication errors. It is my impression that you really do not understand LDS doctrine except from an Anti-LDS point of view. Although a few have attempted to inform you that you are wrong; you persist in resisting.
Like the Phrases it would seem that you are willing to judge others before you have heard them. Are you willing to hear our doctrine as we would teach before you declare it wrong? It would seem you came to this forum convinced we are wrong based on our accusers. Did you know that one of Satan's names is accuser? In contrast the name of Jesus is Advocate. Which are you?
Allow me to ask you - how do you determine what is of G-d and what is not of G-d? While you think about this question remember in Luke chapter 4 that Satan was quite willing to quote scripture in an effort to deceive Jesus. Therefore if you believe that the scriptures are the means to determine what is of G-d or not of G-d then Satan has already won you.
The Traveler
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I would like to point out that our friend is studying to be an engineer. This is not the same experience that other college majors offer. I entered one of the top engineering programs in the nation on scholarship as a honor student. I had never struggled in school in my life - nor had anyone in my family. My brother graduated with a 3.95 GPA and spent 2 days a week skying but he was not in engineering. The engineering program I was in was a 5 year program and out of 100 students that started as freshmen less than 10 percent would ever finish the program on the average of 7 years. In that era the USA produced the world’s top engineers. I realize that many engineering programs in US schools have lowered their standards. Currently the US colleges produces the lowest quality engineers in the industrial world with a few exceptions but close to half the students in those programs are Asian. US high schools just do not prepare students for engineering programs - if someone is going to succeed in engineering they either better be focused or find a different profession.
I know this sounds harsh but it is the case - if a wife expects her husband to be home and spend time with children like other students then there is a problem - the husband is going to have to make a choice between his family and his engineering profession. There is no balance. Many times it is that way in life. You have to choose to either focus or fail, my point is that sooner or later if you cannot focus you will fail. There is a time to focus on family, a time to focus on earning a living, a time to focus on education a time to fucus on developing an eternal relationship and a time to focus on fighting a war and so on and so on.
And now I must focus on something else - I wish you all the best but remember your best is not always good enough and good enough is never your best. Personally I do not think a person can truly succeed at anything worthwhile without spiritual help.
The Traveler
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Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Oct 13 2005, 06:55 PM
You guys haven't even begun to hear me complain. If I was to unload my complaints about all the cra8 that goes on at church it would make your heads spin.
But, I'm a good boy, and won't do that.
Paul O
You are a brighter than most kind of guy, Paul. Is there any thing you have observed in scripture (in particular the Book of Mormon) that you think pertains to what you observe at church?
The Traveler
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Originally posted by azmom@Oct 11 2005, 10:32 PM
Its funny how some times it takes a life and death situation to give you a clue as to are you who you really are and where you are going. I am going through brain cancer. I had to tell my kids that I might not make it. I was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. I like to think about the hymn I need they every hour. I aways knew I was a child of god and that he loved me but somehow now it has really sunk in deep how much he watches over us and loves. And that with his help you can do anything even walk though fire if you had to. azmon"Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for thou art with me."
azmon - This does not need to be the hardest thing you have ever done but it appears to help you realize what is important. Count your blessings and rejoice in your journey and above all else realize that you need not face this alone.
the Traveler
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In general it is my impression that global events will bring more of what we have seen in New Orleans and Asia. It is my understanding that being out of debt and having a surplus as recommended in time past are now more critical. It is also my understanding that family values will be challenged more than in the past - both within and without the LDS society. Not so different from what has been said in the past only now it seems to be said in a different manner - sort of the concept that we have been warned and have seen cause for such warning and we will see more cause - as though the times have become critical and we need to pay more attention. But since no one else seemed to notice - I must be mistaken
The Traveler
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Originally posted by Maureen+Oct 13 2005, 02:20 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Traveler@Oct 13 2005, 11:17 AM
Just a thought: For the wards that seem to have problems in their testimony meetings. I wonder what effect a powerful, honest, truthful, spiritual and sincere testimony would have compared to whining on the internet? If you can truly make a significant difference in the lives of those around you - Why not make that difference?
But Traveler, what's the chance that whining on the internet might be that very thing that would make the difference. Maybe someone might come across the thread and recognize that they are that "overly-emotional-travellog-pat-themselves-on-the-back" testimony giver and make that effort to change - just because of this whiny thread.
M.
When Jesus met with his Apostles for Passover the evening before he was taken by certain jews to be crucified he indicated that one among them was not spiritually connected and would fail (betray) him. The response among trusted Apostles was to ask "L-rd is it I?"
I hinted in a previous post that this concept of "L-rd is it I?" seems to be to be missing by those on the forum (as well as most of us stalwart LDS. Since we seem to be dealing exclusively with spiritual giants on this forum - I thought to suggest something else that would be more applicable to the forum
The Traveler
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Just a thought: For the wards that seem to have problems in their testimony meetings. I wonder what effect a powerful, honest, truthful, spiritual and sincere testimony would have compared to whining on the internet? If you can truly make a significant difference in the lives of those around you - Why not make that difference?
The Traveler
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On thing that is interesting to me is that it is always someone elses testimonies that are out of order. It is also interesting that when ever someone reports on their missionary serving they seem to be having a problem with a "lazy" companion. It would seem that everybody has problems or is offended by someone else.
Have you ever noticed that very seldom does one admit to having a problem?
For myself I have learned that if I have not fasted with purpose that the spirit is just not as strong at testimony meeting. When someone is able (old enough or spiritual enough) to fast and contribute to fast offerings then they are able to feel and experience the spirit at a fast meeting. On my mission I would encourage visitors (contacts) to fast, pray and make a contribution to fast offerings. I discovered that every contact that did so became strong members - those that fudged or found excuses seem to not develop spiritually. I love fast meeting and I love inviting those that have not fasted with purpose to come fasting. I taught my children to fast and contribute - the testimony came naturally.
One last thing - I once taught a SS class (14 year olds) on fasting. I was surprised that not one of the youth in the class had been taught to fast by given a opportunity to fast for a full 24 hours and present a fast offering. I asked all the youth to fast with me - I called their homes and asked to parents to fast with their children. We all got together to begin and end our fast with a prayer. I never said a thing about testimonies - funny thing, next fast Sunday several of the class members fasted again and presented testimonies that is hard to explain on this forum.
I hope that fast meeting remain open to those that fast.
The Traveler
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Most have had a week to ponder the words of the prophets. I would ask the other LDS of this forum - having heard the most recent words of the prophets how has it effected your personal commitments (covenants)?
The Traveler
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Originally posted by Please+Oct 7 2005, 12:57 PM-->
Originally posted by Maureen@Oct 7 2005, 01:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Oct 7 2005, 12:23 PM
I so totally disagreeeeeeeee ! My dad was the one getting up with me in the night... and he was a good provider as well... he would cook saturday morning breakfast... and help us kids wash the car so that we could all go to Dees.... for a hamburger... he was the one carrying me on his shoulders as we walked to church on Sunday... and he was my mentor if ever I needed anything... better than my mother...
And your father was or is a GA?
M.
Almost... LOL I grew up playing with the GAs kids..... my dad worked with them daily... hey... sides... The GAs kids were given lots more of their dads than you know....
Have you ever read Mark E Peterson's story written by his daughter? they saw a lot of him...
It is not bad to get a whole month of July off... as well as other holidays... the only thing they do in December is family... and a few stupid dinners at the places they are board members on... nothing worse than a dinner date with their wives once or twice a aweek... during
december..
They travel on Mondays... and are gone probably three days a week... otherwise they are home at 5 in the evening same as any 8-5 dad... have their week-ends if they don't have an assignment... and believe me... they take turns getting those assignments...
Please: You may be overlooking something. There have been a number of GA that were involved WWII that did not see their wives or children for more than two years. Also putting off education, marriage, work and family to spend two years on a mission is not exactly balance. There is a time for family, a time for work and sometimes a time for war. There is something to doing what ever is needed in the season for that activity. Spring is the time to plant and fall the time to harvest. Planting in the fall and harvesting in the spring is not a good idea in many parts of the world. Likewise attempting to support a family and allow one's wife to be a stay at home mom while attempting to complete a rigorous education is a great way to plan for failure. I learned this lesson well when trying to take 22 credit hours in engineering, serve as a stake Mmen and gleaner leader, also serve as the explorer advisor, hold down a job and run a business I had started with several employees and court my sweetheart.
As it turned out I failed at all the tasks not realizing that it is wiser to have priorities and accomplish the most important task in the time planned for that task. Also that balance is not so necessary as completing something well in it’s time. Most fail not because they are not capable of a thing but because they are not focused. BTW having family as a priority does not mean that there is never a time when family takes a back seat. Most of us realize that if we know of a murder taking place at the same time we have set aside for playing with our children that perhaps we ought to save a life while our children find something else to do with their play time.
The Traveler
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I would think it fun if it was accomplished with a compass, sextant and clock but some electronic GPS system seems to me to be child’s play - which is how I suspect most will play this game - making it more of a exercise in hiking unless it is mostly accomplished by driving. If it is a driving game I think it is a waste of gas.
The Traveler
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Often as we contemplate "The" meaning of names, titles and descriptions we often end up not seeing the forest for the trees. As we ponder the meaning of G-d's name we are even more limited because all we have are translations and interpretations in English of something that has meaning in another language and culture.
The concept of G-d as a king and the king of a heavenly kingdom worries me that there is a possibility that by concentrating on single meanings of name(s) in a nother language may lead to misleading conclusions. I would submit that one key to understanding G-d and his covenants and laws as pertaining to his kingdom and his relationship to his subjects (of his kingdom) can be understood in part in understanding symbols he has given expressing that relationship.
For example the concept of king of kingdom: Without a understanding of the ancient Near Eastern Suzerain servant vassal structure of law we may miss several very important notions. Comments in scripture such as "Eyes that can see and ears that can hear" reference such Suzerain servant vassal laws. The concept of someone being sent in the name of the king or acting in the name of the king or even taking upon oneself the name of the king. We can extend this to the laws of being reborne to the king as well as other concepts. But attempting to understand these notions based on our society and system of government is without question taking the knowledge of scripture out of contest.
I think there is something to be gained with considering a microscopic view of individual things but without the big picture we will miss the greater things of G-d.
My opinion
The Traveler
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Originally posted by Ray+Oct 7 2005, 11:20 AM-->
Are you suggesting that nothing is good unless I think it is good?Originally posted by Traveler@Oct 6 2005, 07:41 PM
Or in other words, nothing is as good or as bad as it seems, even though you may think otherwise... which kinda sounds okay, except for when you actually know or think you know how good or bad something is.Originally posted by Ray@Oct 6 2005, 04:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Traveler@Oct 6 2005, 04:40 PM
My favorite - form King Lear I think.
"Nothing is as good or as bad as it seems only that thinking makes it so."
The Traveler
Or in other words, that idea seems to suggest that nothing is actually good or bad, or that you can change your perception of good and bad depending upon how you think about it, and while that may be true in some contexts, overall, it's simply a bad choice of words.
To you, it is because you think it so...
The Traveler
If so, I don't agree with that idea, because I believe what is good is good because it is good, whether or not I think so.
And I also do not agree with the idea that what is good is good only because God thinks it is good either.
Or in other words, good and bad can be defined outside the parameters of what other people think, simply because of what is good and bad.
Ray: You are being a little lazy in your thinking. Until you think something is good it cannot be of any benefit to you. What you do not realize has no reality to you. Your perception of what you perceive good or bad defines what is good and bad to you. That fact that you can think beyond yourself is a bit of a misnomer - you only think you are thinking beyond yourself.
Jesus said the same thing is a slightly different manner. He said, "As a man thinketh in his heart so is he."
Thank you very much for you consideration and contribution.
The Traveler
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Originally posted by idunnowattosay@Oct 5 2005, 02:00 PM
Hi guys,
I hoped you guys could help me with some research, as I am so busy, and sometimes not terribly resourceful. I have a baptist friend who has been taking the missionary discussions, and she likes a lot of our beliefs, but says all her questions don't always get answered. The one she asked me about was that the sister missionaries told her that only members of the church go to spirit paradise and all others go to spirit prison.
I told her that this is not what I had ever believed, but that I would do a little searching so I could let her know what the church specifically teaches on this point. She still likes the theories better than the whole baptist heaven/hell thing, but I can see how this makes the church look pretty snobby. I know the gospel is never going to please everyone on every point, but I think we could at least help her get a clearer picture on this point. Thanks ahead of time.
I would submit that all that would be heirs of the celestial kingdom will abide in the spirit paradise. D&C 137:7 "...All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been premitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of G-d:"
The Traveler
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Originally posted by Ray+Oct 6 2005, 04:51 PM-->
Or in other words, nothing is as good or as bad as it seems, even though you may think otherwise... which kinda sounds okay, except for when you actually know or think you know how good or bad something is.<!--QuoteBegin-Traveler@Oct 6 2005, 04:40 PM
My favorite - form King Lear I think.
"Nothing is as good or as bad as it seems only that thinking makes it so."
The Traveler
Or in other words, that idea seems to suggest that nothing is actually good or bad, or that you can change your perception of good and bad depending upon how you think about it, and while that may be true in some contexts, overall, it's simply a bad choice of words.
To you, it is because you think it so...
The Traveler
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Originally posted by Laureltree@Oct 4 2005, 05:13 PM
Could you please pray for my dad randall, he was admitted to the hospital two days ago, this afternoon he was transfered to I.C.U. He has something called Congenital Heart failure, his heart right now is working at 10-15%. The lord has blessed him throughh 4 major heartattacks.....If the lord thinks its his time I'm ok with that I just pray the lord waits until my husband returns from Asia so I can go and say goodbye.....
Sincere thanks LaurelTree
My father also suffers from Congenital Heart failure. He never has had heartattaacks. Your father may get a little better but because of his heart condition he will never be free of his problem. It is especially hard when there is pain and suffering not just for the sick but the caring family.
I will pray for you both.
The Traveler
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Originally posted by Cliffhanger@Oct 2 2005, 02:55 PM
I am currently in the process of obtaining a Bachelors Degree in Mechanical Engineering (following up with a combination masters degree)and am finding it difficult to know where the balance between spending time with my family, spending time nurturing myself spritually and also feeling comfortable that my responsibility as provider for my wife and child is being fulfilled in an appropriate manner.
In my particular situation I find myself spending so much time studying in order to get good grades that at the end of the day I don't have much left for family fun and such. In fact, when I feel exhausted at the end of the day I most often feel like my priority is to go straight to bed so I can have the ambition and drive to study hard the next day
Studying, I feel in-directly is strongly connected to both providing sustenance for my family and to building up Zion. I am trying to figure out how the General Authorities, who are so successful, went through school in difficult Mech. Engineering programs or MD/OM sorts of programs keeping a balance between obtaining good grades, taking care of family matters and spiritual matters while at the same time having something left to execute their callings so flawlessly.
For everything there is a season. Balance is overrated - much better to do what needs to be done at the time it ought to be done. My father explained this to me in my youth it this way. You should not be trying to read the Book of Mormon when you are playing second base during a softball game. If you are in the game concentrate on the game - when it is over move on the what-ever it is that you have decided to do next.
Now is the time to get your engineering degree. Soon that time will pass and you will begin another part of your life. Having been where you are and done what you need to do I would only advise you stay the course. If your wife does not want you to finish your school in light of other issues then that is another problem. I would say - concern yourself more with learning and preparation and less with grades the grades will take care of themselves (and engineering perspective).
If when you are done with school you can decide if you want a job that will pay lots of money or one that will allow you to spend more time with your family. You may want to consult your family on that decision.
The Traveler
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Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Oct 5 2005, 10:21 AM
I'm scared of Heaven. What are we going to do after we've done everything? How are we going to die when we just want to relax and stop working? Remember, I'm thinking about after we've done EVERYTHING. If you can think of anything else to do, in my scenario we've already done it. So what do we do?
How can eternity exist if there is a beginning? If it goes forever one way it must go forever another way. Where the heII did we all come from? What happened before the pre-existence? Where did Heavenly Father come from? Who created him and who created his creator?
The problem here is thinking only of the destination and not the journey. Happiness is not getting to what you want but wanting the means to get there.
The idea is not to do all the things necessary to get to heaven but learning to love doing the things that will get you there.
The Traveler
Its funny how some times it takes a life and death situation to give you a clue as to are you who you really are and where you are going. I am going through brain cancer. I had to tell my kids that I might not make it. I was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. I like to think about the hymn I need they every hour. I aways knew I was a child of god and that he loved me but somehow now it has really sunk in deep how much he watches over us and loves. And that with his help you can do anything even walk though fire if you had to.
azmon
Tenjewberrymuds
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
You just don't know - this just as well could have been me. On my 2nd trip to Taiwan my company had me take a bus from Taipei to Tainen to save money. There is no experience like this on this side of the world. I missed my stop by two stops and it took me 2 hours to find a taxi and find a way to tell the driver where I was going.
The way English is spoken starts to rub off - when I got back home my wife could not understand me for a couple of days.
PS - it is even worse when you try to learn their language saying "wo" (or anything Chinese) has at least 5 different meanings pending how you say it and has the opposite meaning if the tone goes up or down at the end of the word. The good thing is the the Asians are the nicest (most polite) people in the world.
The Traveler