EmmaLeigh

In that light, the 12 is the presiding quorum because it is the 12 that will name the successor. The counselors are not chosen by the President in the CofC... it is done the same way as any change in the quorums, with direction from G-d. The president doesnt choose the counselors. In fact, Grant and Pres. Robinson were the last counselors with Wallace B Smith. To fill Grant's position was Peter Judd, and both of them have remained as counselors for the entire 8 years. (Their names have not come up because they are up in age... In fact, many thought the resignation of Ken Robinson was the purpose of the meetings initially - until the mandatory meeting that was broadcast to all church employees came up... He's been having some health concerns of late).... Sighs... I suppose once you start changing items in the D&C, though, and negate them, it is easy to do it on other things as well. Right? The great falling away (which is how I've always heard it) or the cleansing is something that HAS been going on since the beginning, but that escalated after 1987 and section 157... Perhaps this is the final straw - again... Just makes a person wonder how splintered a denomination can become before it lacks existance... *shrugs*

I believe that Darlene Wight was the wife of Les Wight and they are distant relatives to us. My relatives that taught at Graceland were Joel and Francine(Enslee) Wight... I had a grandfather Les Wight, but not the Les Wight that taught at Graceland most recently (though he did when it was a jr college I believe).... Interesting look on the presidency... Can you tell me where in the D&C it says that the first presidency should resolve in this type of event? Jenda is right that the CofC condisers all three presidents, and has moved away from the 'counselor' bit of it in recent (McMurray) years... but there is only ONE prophet - THE President of the church... I think it is part of the whole not wanting to be singled out thing that Grant had.... Neither Grant nor Wallace B. have a 'right' any longer to name a successor. They have both given up the office of prophet and are no longer president of the church, which is what gives that person the right - not the responsibility like I initially thought. Thanks for the info you're looking for on the LDS Wights... :) It is funny - cause there is a new organ prof at Graceland that is LDS. When I joked with him that I can say who my great..... grandfather is and LDS people always know it he laughed (cause he knew of him - and about him cause he's from TX originally himself ) and then he went home and told his wife... :) It was a funny story to me, anyways.... I'm looking forward to talking with my parents tonight, who most likely have talked to my uncle (or I'll be calling my grandmother shortly) to find out if anything came of today's meeting. I'll try to keep you posted on anything I find out!! :)

Randy - I'm jumping to the fun part to respond to - then I'll be back with the more serious part later tonight. (probably after a discussion with my dad - MR. History when it comes to this stuff or a quick read of one of my many books...) You worked with LDS Wight's?? See, there are quite a few Wights, mainly because Lyman had a handful of (we are descendants of the first wife) but... There were only three brothers that initially came to the states from the Isle of Wight... but that was back when the first buildings of Harvard were being built (they were bricklayers and laid the brick for most of the buildings).... and anyone with the name Wight in the US is related since no other's have made the trip from the Isle of Wight... I'm in Lamoni actually - not far from Platte City I dont believe - and would totally be interested in looking them up. I was adopted, but I'm the most versed in family history (I've actually READ the two volume Wight Family History) in my family. I wasnt aware that there were Wights that were still LDS. Interesting!!! One of Lyman's grandchildren was an apostle in the RLDS church as well - John Rymerian - and he now has a great-great-great-great grandson that is a President of Seventy. The two left in the presidency will NOT be naming the successor - just like int he D&C it will fall to the 12... Not sure where you go the idea the other two would be making the 'choice'... And in all actuality, there will also be confirmation saught from the other quorums of the World Church Leadership Council.... Oh - and the other two are NOT Prophets... simply councelors in the first presidency... There is only one prophet, though in the last eight years the only one ordained to that office has shirked away from its calling... *shrugs* maybe a reason for the cleansing...

Wow... I have some friends that were part of Livingston's commune a long time ago, but I didnt know that he claimed to have the sealed portion. For th emost part, the people I know dont trust anything he says, especially after some of the things that have come out about the situations in his commune... but thanks, I'll check that site out at some point... Randy - I'm RLDS... so exposing me to that isnt the same as if someone else went there... PLUS I live in Lamoni :) Though that has no barring on it. I've seen what Livingston has done to people and I'm in no danger of falling into any trap there. I dont want to be walking around like some people from back home that got mixed up with him. And I havent heard a peep about him for a long time anyway... :) now that I think of it - i believe some of the people handing out pamphlets at Conference have had them that said that, but I always disregarded them ... hm.....

I am simply uncomfortable with the idea... It doesnt seem right, even though I know there were prohetesses in the scriptures... Women pastors dont bother me near as much as a woman APOSTLE and a woman prophet... and the office of bishop and patriarch (evangelist now) are so historically male that it is difficult to see a woman in the presiding bishopric.... I also agree about many women not being focused on the right area of ministry... it has certainly opened a can of worms... Making sure moving there isnt on your agenda in the future??? :)

Thanks!! Anyone have any thoughts about this aspect of things??

Randy... Yes, Lyman Wight is my great-great-great-great-great grandfather... maybe a great less, but my grandfather none the less... You are correct about the lack of a person to council in the office of President... Nice point, but... :) As far as the first conference after Joseph's death, JSIII was way too young and therefore was not brought as the prophet at that point in time... I'll have to do some searching through my information, but I feel like there was another reason - I'll get back to you.... :)

GOt it and shot one back to you... :)

Blessed - no - i'm not... And my uncle is a pres of seventy....

i have a question... I am sure that my father once talked about some of the sealed books of the Book of Mormon that were not translated by Joseph Smith Jr, but that were supposed to be found and brought forth before Christ returns... Is that just - um- false? or what??? I'm really interested in reading these posts (well the ones at the start of the thread...) I've always thought that the Life after death slide presentation (i mean old-school slide presentation) that the Community of Christ has and the lil diagram of what will happen either when you die or when Christ returns was very interesting. I'm sure the beliefs are quite different between our two faiths, but I still find it interesting. Hope you dont mind me jumping in here... :)

I'm not sure - but I'd sure be tempted... I came from one of hte most conservative areas of the church and now am in one of the most liberal... it is strange... but i havennt been somewhere that the new prayers have been used... I just am so diametrically opposed to the whole idea... shrugs... it makes my skin crawl... :)

:) You sound like someone my dad would get along with... He loves wearing his 'church seal' t-shirt... It has Community of christ over a seal with a red and white ball on its nose... :) I dont know what I"ll do the first time I'm somewhere that the communion prayers are said differently... I've had them memorized since I was seven... I'll probably insist on them being repeated RIGHT... :) It always saved me at Conference when they would have them said in a different language... I still knew what was being said... :)

That's a kinda scary photo... Interesting... I'm interested in reading the book, though, and it was the media attention that brought it to my eye...

There will be a meeting of the World Church Leadership Council tomorrow (Tuesday) at the Temple. This council consists of the FP, Council of 12, presidents of seventy, presiding bishopric... I'm sure the presiding evangelist is on that council too, but I cant find alisting of it... Just know my uncle will be there for it.... Should be interesting to hear if anything comes of it....

I'm with you Jenda when it comes to the changing of gender in things... the change to communion prayers was almost more than my lil head could take... (but then, i'm a girl that doesnt feel right about women in the presiding bishopric or the council of 12... )... ugh...

Interesting thought as a CofC member (for the time being) and... well.. interesting... :) Do you have "We Thank Thee oh God For a Prophet" in your hymnal?? Cant sing that without thinking about Joseph Smith.

Snow - I guess i'm not understanding your question. In the case of Brigham Young, the successor had been made known to those around Joseph Smith Jr - that Joseph III was to be the next prophet. (I know, I know, there is a huge discreptioncy in the beliefs surrounding that fact, but I'm only talking from my own knowledge and experience)... Because the successor was known, there was no need for the 12 to be involved. If so, at that point in time, it would have taken quite a while because my great-great-great-great-great grandfather was one of those 12 and he was in Texas when Joseph was murdered. Again - i know there are different beliefs surrounding that time...

Could be...

I can understand the CofC's difficulty accepting priesthood, but why, with open communion and accepting the baptism of all would they have an issue with accepting baptisms?

Then I stand corrected... i dont know why my dad's friend would have said that to us... *shrugs*... Now I"m confused!!! :) What else is new.

If you had read the statements, or if you saw the meeting the remaining First Presidency had with the world church ministers, you would know that President McMurray has been getting help from other priesthood through this situation that he stated has been going on for a few years. He has counceled with other members of the FP as well as other ministers in the church, who, the statement says, will continue to work with him.... Sometimes all the counsling in the world wont fix a problem... I dont agree with what has happened in any way, shape or form, but who am I??? Apparently it doesnt matter... I was the first to bring up to the former WC Worship Corrdinator that I'm just waiting for section 162 to be called into question... But that would also mean that the members would have to admit to not prayerfully considering something, which will never happen.... *shrugs* I'm strange, I know...

Hm... Like I said - i dont know much about the restorationists, but I do know that my dad's friend told him he had just been ordained an apostle a few years back... *shrugs*.. Guess he could have been lieing.... Funny that if there is no organization - how do they hold reunions and such .... And it isnt that they are not allowed to worship as they want to - it is that they (for the most part) do not beleive and agree with the church's stance on certain things (mainly women in the priesthood)... Even Pres. McMurray's inlaws are restorationists... and that is about the extent of my knowledge. We had a huge fight in our family over 156, but when it all panned out, we were one of the first families with three generations of women in the priesthood... As far as questioning if I'm CofC, that is hilarious... I'm seventh generation on BOTH sides of my family... If I"m not CofC I dont know who is. I've had two of my 'grandfathers' (great-great-great-great-great and great-great-great) who were apostles... my uncle is currently a pres of seventy... and i'm me... a girl who was ordained a Teacher when I was seventeen, left the church over open communion and the name change and because people didnt want to ACT in their priesthood roles and who returned a year ago... only to be so inspired by Pres. McMurray's sermon on the Sunday night of World Conference and then be faced with this... I've never concerned myself with the restorationists... I've never known any aside from my dad's friend... But then again - you probably know best, right?? :) BTW - The Rement church has a headquarters in Independence as well, that much I do know (cant miss their sign on 291)....unless the sign is a fake... *shrugs*

Sighs... I have always felt as though those who are restorationists have a grudge... a chip on their shoulder... and i dont think that it is something I would be comfortable with. I'm not too informed about them, granted, but that is how I have always felt. Perhaps I should do some research... One of my dad's college basketball teammates is in their council of 12... we've maintained contact with him - maybe he could answer questions... Of course, there is a restoration congregation in my town, maybe that would be better (Even though I just moved here a couple of months ago).... And... I've always respected certain aspects of the LDS faith and church. I have ancestory that goes all the way back to the first council of 12 under Joseph Smith Jr...... shrugs... guess I'm complicated, eh? I just want to be right... and feel right about the decision i make....

The 'continuing to come' statement I believe was in regards to the start of the ordination of women with section 156 of the D and C in 1987. there was a HUGE exodus, but even with the aggreement of that decision, there are still conservatives (myself included) that have had to give in to certain trends the church has taken - the name change and open communion - and the ordination of a woman to the office of Prophet is just - well, it would be another last straw for me and probably cause me to look into the LDS church a bit more seriously. As the CofC has strived to become more eccumenicle they have taken standards of belief and rationalized them or made them less 'celebrated' or important. Of course, while I have enjoyed the ministry of Apostle Linda Booth and Apostle Gail Mengal (I've never been around Mary Jacks-Dynes) I was not comfortable with adding women to the Concil of Twelve. Just call me a conservative 25 year old seventh generation-er... Shrugs... So pray whichever way you want... but I do know that there are a couple of choices that I would certainly not feel is the will of God for the future of the church... :) ANd thanks for letting me come here to talk aobut this.