[How deep do you believe?]

I think He's already told you.

No, my wife has told me and everyone at my church has told me, but that's expected of them since they have been taught to believe since birth. I'm still waiting for god to tell ME the truth though.

[How deep do you believe?]

To tell you the truth, I am at my whits end. Nothing I say makes a difference. I will have to drug her to do it. Force her for her own good.

God won't do that. He doesn't mess with our free will. If he did so he would cease to be God. Spiritual knowledge isn't free. God requires things first. He requires these things first because with spiritual knowledge comes responsibility. He doesn't just give it because you demand it. You need to study about what the prereq's are. You need to discipline yourself to these. You need to show God you are ready for the responsibility that will follow. That you are willing to be obedient.

D&C 9:6-9

6 Do not murmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have dealt with you after this manner.

7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must astudy it out in your bmind; then you must cask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your dbosom shall eburn within you; therefore, you shall ffeel that it is right.

9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a astupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is bsacred save it be given you from me.

God may however give us experiences to humble us, if we refuse to be humbled on our own. I am talking about suffering. Pain is hard and yucky, but it is an amazing teacher. It carves out space for more faith, truth, and obedience.

You need to study, my friend. Lots and lots of study.

You taking your child aside and saying they have to go to the dentist OR ELSE doesn't take away her free will any more than God sternly telling us he exists would. It's not like God had any second thoughts about wiping out the whole world's population except for 2 people in the Old Testament when he sent the great flood. He was fine with sending plagues to teach the egyptians lessons when they opressed Moses' people. Why does He worry about taking away free will by making his existance known now?

[How deep do you believe?]

It's called DENIAL!

What are they denying? They are simply believing what they have been taught to believe since they are young, just like you. If they knew the "truth" but were simply denying it, why would they die for their cause? Wouldn't the thought of ending it all and sending yourself to hell snap someone out of simple denial?

[How deep do you believe?]

Today you sound like an atheist. You sound like you have already made up your mind.

In your descriptions, I would find myself quite lost. What would my purpose be? What would I then do with the longing in my heart that pushes me to find truth? Why do I long to be special? To know that someone somewhere loves me, knows my name and my struggles, and loves me enough to help me? If there is no such being, I would be in despair.

I have not made up my mind, I was simply stating what I find as the most likely scenario. You see emptiness and despair, but I see the opportunity to define for yourself what your purpose is and how you search for the truth.

What would then prevent me from ending this life altogether? Why fight to live? Just so someone else can get power and dominate another? Just so mankind can run a muck as slaves to their lusts?

What is to prevent you from ending your life? Nothing, in fact some people do just that. Why fight to live? Because living is what you know, beyond that is unknown and life is all you have. Many people live their lives with similar theories to mine except with more certainty. They don't run amuck or instantly kill themselves or become a slave to their lust any more than you do.

What you describe is a place of utter emptiness. Because I feel the emptiness......that tells me something is wrong with the theory.

I don't see how feeling emptiness is a sign of something being not true though. The truth is sometimes unpleasant, but that doesn't change the truth.

[How deep do you believe?]

You're right -- He could.

The beginning of understanding Him is to ask yourself the question:

"If God could make it crystal clear to me that He exists, but chooses not to -- is there a reason for Him to behave this way?"

In all of your complaining about God not giving you evidence -- you (perhaps unknowingly) have hit upon the very essence of why you are here on this earth.

It's about choice. And it's about desire.

God won't interfere with your agency, including your having a relationship with Him or obeying Him.

That is why He won't write in the sky, in letters 100 feet tall, "DS, this is God. I exist and you should do what I say"

He COULD do that, but He won't. He won't because that would unduly influence you.

All I can tell you is that the way this works, down here on earth, is that we are the ones who need to seek HIM, not the other way around.

We can't stomp around like spoiled kids, demanding that He make His mind and will ULTRA APPARENT to us. We don't grow that way. We can't grow that way.

God is not going to come down here and march us through mortality, telling us that He lives and loves us, forcing it down our throats.

You keep complaining about evidence. It's all around you. You are kneck deep in the evidence that there is a Creator. But you are blind to it because the only way you are willing to accept the evidence is if it comes to you through the 5 senses.

But God is saying, "I don't work that way. I speak to you through your feelings."

God is not going to change the way things work for you. So that means you ARE going to have to go through life, never really knowing if God exists, because you refuse to humble yourself and do the things He has CLEARLY told you that you need to do in order to know that He exists. But you do need to humble yourself and ask in faith, believing that He will speak to you. You do have to be willing to listen to your feelings and follow them.

There is an entire new world waiting for you. You hold the key to unlocking it, if you are willing. But you have to be willing. It's not on us, or God, to turn that key for you. YOU have to take that leap of faith, man. You.

I'm not asking for writing in the sky or even anything that goes through my 5 senses, at this point I'd settle for God whispering in my mind, "I do exist and the Mormons have it right"

[How deep do you believe?]

What kind of an answer do you expect to get if there is a God? What would that look like to you? What would you need in order to break the tie between trusting and not trusting? What if God whispered in your ear? Would that be enough?

I would settle for a simple "I'm here, I care about you and you're on the right path" from God.

[How deep do you believe?]

I don't have a believing heart, I am a skeptic at heart, does that make me any less of a child of God? Does God only care about the naive? If God made me, He made me skeptical and all, why hasn't He left anything for His skeptical children?

No. It doesn't make you less special. It makes you normal.

I have a little girl, eight, who absolutely won't go to the dentist. She has a cavity and needs the dreeded shot. But she just won't believe she'll be ok. My other kids did it just fine. The dentist is REALLY good at doing the shot thing. I have never seen better. My sons said it didn't really hurt that bad. But she is skeptical. Does that make her different? Should I love her less? No. Certainly not. But it does require that I ask more of her. I teach her and plead with her and I am patient with her. Sometimes I must get stern in order to teach her. But truth be told, I can do all of those things, but she will never know that it will be ok if she doesn't go where she doesn't want to go and do it.

I think perhaps you are waiting on God. But you may be waiting a long time. Because He may be waiting on you.

That is my point exactly. Your child is skeptical so you take a different path and directly tell her what to do for her own good. If God is the eternal father, why would he not take the same simple actions and be more stern with his skeptical children?

[How deep do you believe?]

Why is that idea unlikely to you? Wouldn't it be just as likely that God would interfere and create us in his image? It is likely to me that he would. Tigers beget tigers. Mice beget mice. Humans beget humans. It is very logical to me that a God would beget a reflection of itself.

I believe if there is a God he created the entire universe and on the countless other planets where life evolved, it evolved differently and the dominant species probably looks nothing like us but instead is adapted to its own environment.

To believe that we are special in the universe and we are the only species on this planet that matters and so naturally God made US in his own image is an attractive thought, but ultimately only fullfilling our own arrogance and need to be special.

[How deep do you believe?]

I also wanted to say as part of the earlier conversation, that people who do horrific things in the name of religion, ARE NOT following their conscience! They follow their pride and lust for power and dominion! Believe me, it ain't the good voice talking!!

If you honestly believe that you are killing hundreds of people to save millions, are you really acting against a conscience? If honestly you believe God told you to kill people to carry out his vengence, is it acting against a conscience? Most people think that all people who commit attrocities know they are doing "evil" and are simply following a lust for power. I'm sure that is the case for some of them, but in the case of the religious fanatic, they honestly believe they are doing the right thing wherever the voice in their head leads them and that is what makes them dangerous. Do you think the terrorists that died in the 9/11 attack had any remorse for what they did? They believed it was the right thing so strongly that they died for the cause.

[How deep do you believe?]

Good Morning DS.

I was wondering for the sake of conversation and for the sake of weighing both sides equally, what makes you feel that there may be a God. If you are truly an agnostic, then I am assuming there would be something pulling you from atheism. So, if you were to make a case for God. What would it be.... without doubts added into the equation? We can add those in a minute.

The only thing that pulls me away from atheism is that I believe it is just as arrogant to say you KNOW there is no God as it is to say you KNOW there is a God. Neither positions are supported by evidence from my point of view.

If I were to make a case for God, it would be that I have no idea why the universe exists and why there seem to be a set of rules governing it. I'd say it is possible there is an ultimate rule keeper and creator somewhere, but I'd say it is unlikely that he is interfering with our daily affairs or created us in his own image.

[How deep do you believe?]

Seems pretty "straighforward" and "easy to understand" to me!!!!

Yes, assuming that is the pure word of God, it is pretty clear. Unfortunately I haven't seen or felt anything to justify that it is the word of God any more than another script claiming to be the word of God. When I read it I feel the same as if I were reading mythology.

It's not rocket science -- but it does require a believing heart and a willingness to experiment upon the word.

I don't have a believing heart, I am a skeptic at heart, does that make me any less of a child of God? Does God only care about the naive? If God made me, He made me skeptical and all, why hasn't He left anything for His skeptical children?

If you are not willing to submit to God's program without PROOF, then I guess His gospel is not something you are really interested in.

No, I'm simply not willing to submit to anything claiming to be "God's program" without evidence of some kind, any kind. You have your evidence, along with everyone who has a testimony, but I haven't felt anything from God. If God really cared about me and He is omnipotent He would give some form of response since it takes no effort for him but would mean the world to me. You can say I'm just not hearing the response or some such nonsense but since God is omnipotent, I reckon he would know exactly what I would be able to hear.

God realizes that some people just won't believe in Him without proof. I guess you are one of those people?

Again, I never said I wanted proof, I simply want some form of evidence, is that so much to ask? You say he knows some people won't believe him out of faith, then why did a perfect God create such an imperfect system? Why not make his presence known for each generation and find out which people are the disobedient ones rather than just discriminating against the skeptical ones that are simply using the gifts they were given to discern what makes sense.

[How deep do you believe?]

DS - To know God and His Son is eternal life. How can we learn to know God if we are unwilling to seek after Him and do His will?

When we lack gospel knowledge or rely upon our own wisdom, we may be more easily led into evil by Satan.

We have to seek after him (God) and do his will, and then we will know him.

We do this by studying his word (Bible), and (BM, DC, PGP).

Saying your particular scripts are the "word" of God is just another unsubstantiated claim among many.

Satan’s power over a person increases as that person becomes more wicked, until eventually the person is “taken captive by the devil” and bound with the “chains of hell.” (Alma 12:11.)

Satan’s method is to influence the thoughts of men, tempting them and enticing them, always working “in the hearts of the children of men.” (2 Ne. 28:20.)

We are not capable of overcoming Satan alone. If Satan entices us to do evil, so the Holy Spirit “entices” us to virtue.

Apparently I am able to "overcome Satan" alone, because I've never felt the slightest external force to do "evil" deeds and I've never had faith in any particular religion. I think anyone that knows me in real life would consider me a moral individual.

There are several ways to know whether or not a thought, impression, dream, etc, is God or the Devil.

God gives to every man the Spirit of Christ to know the difference between right and wrong.

If we are not sure, then we need to seek God in prayer, and he will help us to know, thru the same Holy Spirit.

Apparently not "every man" has the ability to know right and wrong because some people pray and believe God tells them to kill in His name. Very few people committing attrocities believe they are doing the wrong thing.

In addition, “the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray” (2 Ne. 32:8)

It follows the, If it is a good thought then it has to be from God. If it is a bad thought it has to come from Satan. As a man thinketh, so he becomes.

Not everything is black and white and why couldn't a cunning "Devil" make a "bad" thought sound like a "good" one?

Work at keeping your thoughts clean by thinking of something good. The mind can think of only one thing at a time. Use that fact to crowd out ugly thoughts. Above all, don’t feed thoughts by reading or watching things that are wrong. If you don’t control your thoughts, Satan will keep tempting you until you eventually act them out.

Rationalization of sin is one of Satans most successful tactics.

I think "Satan" is simply a convenient justification for bad thoughts. No one wants to believe that they themself are capable of "evil" thoughts if they occur so they convince themselves that these "evil" thoughts are all from an external source, when really they're probably just repressed emotions.

[How deep do you believe?]

How do you know you've done something "wrong"?

How do you know you've done something "good"?

It's quite simple. If I do something that affects other people in a negative way it is "wrong", if I do something that affects other people in a positive way it is "good". How do I determine negative and positive? Well it is different for everyone but I use how I would feel if it happened to me as a guide.

[How deep do you believe?]

Yep, it would explain it. So that provides some evidence for belief in the Devil (the fact that he deceives so many into thinking they are doing "God's work" when in fact they are fighting against God.)

If both "God" and "The Devil" can obviously use feelings to convince us to follow certain paths, how do you know it wasn't simply "The Devil" giving you feelings that you are doing the right thing while in reality God wanted you to join a different religion and you'll now be sent to Hell because you bet everything on a feeling that could have come from either source? If this "Devil" character is really as sneaky as you say, don't you think he would have thought of that? I'm not saying this to be mean or sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious about this.

Can you think of some examples from your life where you feel you have been "invited and enticed to do good continually"?

I've never felt an external force guiding my choices. Not all my choices have been good, but I take responsibility for the bad ones along with the good ones.

Can you think of some times where you have been "persuaded to do evil, and to believe not in Christ"?

Comining the two statements of "doing evil" and to "believe not in Christ" in one question doesn't make any sense. There are people who don't do evil and don't believe in Christ and there are also people who do horrendous evil and do believe in Christ. So I will answer them seperately.

Can you think of some times where you have been "persuaded to do evil"?

I consider intentionally and maliciously doing something you know will harm another person as evil. I've never done anything I would consider as evil in that sense. Not to say everything I've done has been perfectly good, but I would not say anything I've done has gone so far as "evil."

Can you think of some times where you have been "persuaded to believe not in Christ?

My parents were Unitarian Universalist and even then mostly went to church for social reasons. They encouraged me to think for myself especially on matters of religion. I bring this up because I would simply say that I've never been persuaded TO believe in Christ, not that I have some external force persuading me NOT TO believe in Christ.

[How deep do you believe?]

Do you believe in "the Devil"?

If such a being were to exist, and he knew that God speaks to us through our feelings, what do you think one of his strategies might be to thwart God's efforts?

I'd do my best to get God's children to discount, minimalize, or flat-out reject the idea that God can speak to them through their FEELINGS.

What do you think?

I find it more likely that God exists than some form of "Devil". But assuming such a being exists, how do we know it is not "The Devil" speaking to us through our feelings impersonating God, and God is the one attempting to get us to see reason with logic and with the brains He gave us? That would explain all the killing and destruction that takes place in God's name.

[How deep do you believe?]

Do you believe in God?

I certainly don't discount the possibility, but I wouldn't say I "believe" at the moment though.

Do you believe that God speaks to man?

Again, I think there's a possibility for it. I think that if God were omnipotent and decided to communicate with his children, he wouldn't have so much trouble getting the message across so I tend to think he doesn't since there is so much confusion in the world over God's will.

Do you believe that God's words are written down, somewhere, anywhere?

Once again, I would have to say it is entirely possible that if God were to communicate with people someone would write it down.

[How deep do you believe?]

Hey DS. I know that I am nobody from nowhere but, I'd love to hear what you think about the BofM while you read it. Is there a chance you feel any differently when you compare reading it to other books? I mean other than all the "thee's and thou's".

I may not know you personally, but I have come to respect your opinion on matters from the insight of your posts. Honestly, so far it has been kind of dry reading, I get a little tired of "And so it came to pass" all the time. I mean, I know it is not meant to be a literary masterpeice but starting sentences with a little more variety couldn't hurt . Other than that I haven't felt anything yet but I'm only maybe 10% done so far. The story seems interesting. I did watch "Journey of Faith" with my wife recently to go along with where we are in the story and help visualize it a little more. I'll keep you posted on my reactions as we read on if you want.

I guess I am wondering if it might help to recognize little ways the spirit works. I feel warmer or calmer inside when I am doing spiritual things. Or maybe you could contrast that with times when you knew you were in the wrong place, with the wrong people, or perhaps the feeling you had when you stole gum as a child and felt badly.

I feel it when I know a decision is wrong. Sometimes I feel a warning about something or someone. I get that a lot with my kids and their friends. I can pick up on the warning vibes. Last year, I had this feeling that we were going to move. The next week he got the sweetest job offer. I knew we would sell our house. I just had this sixth sense about it. And we did in a day.

Have you experienced anything like that?

In my experience, feelings of right and wrong usually come from the upbringing. For instance I have a catholic friend who feels guilt when eating meat on friday. I have never felt bad about it, so I just attribute it to his parents drilling beliefs into his head when he was young. Lessons learned when you are young and impressionable often stick around as "intuition" later even if you can't tell directly where the feeling is coming from.

BTW, you said that you know you are doing the right thing by questioning and searching. How do you know???

Just a personal philosophy, my dad is a scientist, maybe it made an impression on me :)

[How deep do you believe?]

1) You sincerely want to know the truth.

True

2) You believe that someone can FEEL something is right and still be deceived, and you don't want to be deceived. You don't trust that feelings are the best way to know something is true.

True

3) Because of #2, you trust the 5 senses, you trust reason and logic (such that we are capable of) over feelings.

True

Now I think we are getting somewhere :)

[How deep do you believe?]

Why do you keep coming to man for what only God can reveal to you?.

Because God is not talking to me, and furthermore if he only communicates with feelings, how do I distinguish God talking to me from a delusion of God talking to me, which a lot of people obviously suffer from since they can't all be right. You say only God can tell me how to distinguish Him from a delusion but He can only communicate with me in ways that seem like a delusion. Do you see my dilemma here? Am I the only one that sees a problem with this?

Why do you fault us for failing to prove to you what only God can prove to you?

I do not fault you for anything or asking you to "prove" anything, I'm just trying to make sense of everything.

Proving something true or false, in these forums, does not MAKE it true or false in God's eyes.

And blindly believing something is true or false does not make it true or false either.

I guess that is my point. Posting in these forums is fine -- but ultimately all anyone in here can do is discuss, discuss, discuss -- and then point you to God. Not because we don't have answers to your questions, but because only God can reveal them to you. Only God can write them upon your heart. Only God can convince you. It is not my job, or the Church's job, or anyone else's job, to convince you of anything. Not only do we not have the ability...it's not our place.

I am aware of all that.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

NOT:

5 And by the power of [Tom's logic and convincing words] ye may know the truth of all things.

How about:

5 And by the power of [your own logic and obvservation] ye may know the truth of [many] things.

I like that one better.

That is why I predict that, while you may find it satisfying to DISCUSS DISCUSS DISCUSS all of this -- you'll never get any answers here. And if we did convince you by our words that we are "true" -- I would fear and tremble knowing that -- for if you are converted intellectually, you can be unconverted intellectually. But the witness of the Holy Ghost is much more powerful. You cannot turn from that without knowing that you are doing so.

I'm still waiting for any kind of divine contact, so until then I "discuss, discuss, discuss"

[How deep do you believe?]

most who claim they don't believe in God , at the time they go to give up the ghost they generally call on the name of Jesus and out to Heavenly Father.

I believe that is just an urban legend, and the people who do that were simply denying their birth religion out of a rebellious nature while deep down "knowing" that it was the "truth." I was never indoctrinated into a religion at a young age so I find it highly unlikely that will be the case for me or many other atheists I know.

Your myth goes along with the "no atheists in foxholes" myth which I find rather offensive, and there are actually very few things that I find offensive.

[How deep do you believe?]

Well, God's promise is that He will not lead us astray, that His voice of counsel is the way home to Him.

Well I think He failed on that one since there are many people who followed their feelings and committed attrocities in the name of God. They honestly felt that God told them to do such things, why would God allow that to happen if feelings are the only way to "communicate" with him? How can I trust such an unreliable source?

I am not requiring you to believe in things which are not seen which are true. It is God who is requiring that of you. You will receive no witness until AFTER the trial of your faith. That's the way it works!

Things which are not seen which are true... yet there are so many things that are not seen, how is one to decide what is true? Everyone tells me to look within, but there are billions of people who look within and see different answers. I find it far more likely that they simply find what they want to find rather than all of them tapping into some universal truth.

I don't want to offend you, or be all doom and gloom, or judge you. But I do feel to warn you about some things.

If you wait until you die to see God and know that He is real -- well, it's too late by then. The test is kinda over by then. Missionary work in the Spirit World is reserved principly for those who did NOT have a chance to find and follow the gospel during mortality. If you reject it during mortality and then accept it afterwards, the Terrestrial Kingdom will be where you're headed. Again, only God knows what is in your heart. You can wordsmith in these forums till the cows come home. You can justify your beliefs to anyone who will listen. But in your heart, that deep place that only God knows -- you cannot lie about that. You cannot deceive God.

I've received the same warning from nearly every other religion though. You say that it is a test, but I say that if it is a test, the only logical answer would be not to assume He is communicating with you since so many other people are led astray by those assumptions. I'm not trying to "cheat" the system with wordsmithing or justification, I'm just honestly looking for answers the best way I know how.

That's nice and all -- but where it really gets exciting is when it leaves the realm of discussion and become real, actual faith.

The gospel of Christ is not an intellectual exercise. It was never intended to be "discussed" only -- but to be applied to our daily lives. It is a LIVING faith, not the realm of pure academia. It is a gospel of service and DOING.

I'm doing what I feel is right, that is what I always do. It is not in my nature to simply accept things without question, I find that in general true things stand up to questioning quite well.

I'm not judging you. At least, I don't mean to. All I know is what you write about. I think it's great that you come here to ask questions. It's what these forums help do. But one thing these forums can't do is give you the soul-deep answers I think you are wanting. Like I said -- that is God's domain.

I'm still waiting for God's answers, as much as I try, I feel nothing.

I do thank you for your time though. Even if I can't find soul-deep answers here as you say, I can discuss with intelligent people that have different opinions which gives good opportunity for learning.

[How deep do you believe?]

You'll never receive an answer that will satisfy you in these forums. We're fallen men and women. We have good intentions, but we cannot give you that surety you seek. Only God can do that. If you refuse to accept that, then God does not have much means to work with you, for He works with us THROUGH our feelings primarily, not purely through what the world defines as logical or rational. God does not work by irrational means, but He does work extra-rationally.

If the only way for me to find God is through feelings, then I will have to remain without Him until I die and find out for myself if there is nothingness or some kind of God to welcome me with open arms. I simply can't justify to myself unyielding faith based only on feelings when I see so many of my fellow man misled by the very same kind of feelings.

I've come to realize that I won't receive certainty or faith from this forum or anywhere else, but I still enjoy discussing the subjects and seeing other people's viewpoints on religion and faith.

[How deep do you believe?]

Do you believe you have a spirit inside of you? I believe we are all spirits enjoying a physical experience. So all that physiology you describe is part of my experience. There is a place inside of myself..... where I meet myself. Where I can talk to myself. Have you ever felt that place? This is the place I feel spiritual things. It is outside of my logic and my emotion. It is a place where everything gets quiet and I just listen.

I would really like to believe I have a spirit inside me, it's a pleasant thought, but honestly I would have to say that I think probably not. I think that most likely what we know as consciousness is simply our own unique neural pattern in our brain. Why do I think such a depressing thought? If personality and memories and emotions were really more than just in our brains, you wouldn't be able to see such dramatic difference when part of the brain dies. If emotions really came from our immortal soul, they wouldn't be affected by horomones.

Do you believe you have a conscience? Good vs. Bad, right vs. wrong? If so, does that sense about you originate in your logical thought? What about wisdom? I believe we each have a logical side, and emotional side, and a wise brain in the middle that kind sorts out the imbalances of the two sides.

Yes, I have a conscience and ultimately I think it originates in logical thought. I can tell what is right and what is wrong by examining the consequences of my actions, if it affects people negatively it is wrong. It's really quite simple.

And I just have to add this last thought. I think that God is purposely holding out on us. We could run around with our heads cut off trying to "prove" everything. And He would just laugh. Because it is not part of his plan to give us all the answers at once. We wouldn't be able to receive it all anyway. Milk before the meat. God says, "I will try the faith of my people." (Third Nephi, at the end). He doesn't give us all the knowledge we think we need. But He does tell us how he works. As you read, Look for God's pattern. How does He deal with Nephi and Jacob and Alma ( who was a real poop for a while.) I know God tries my faith all the time. And I look up and say, "Did you have to try so hard?".:)

I sincerely hope you are right.

[How deep do you believe?]

Besides, why not go to the perfect source of truth, rather than the garbled message from the imperfections and pride of men(science)?

I find this statement fascinating. From my point of view it sounds more like religion is the "garbled message from the imperfections and pride of men" rather than science. How else do you explain the multitude of religions all arrogant enough to say that they know the one truth? How else can you explain all the killing that has taken place in God's name? Obviously not all people claiming to have knowledge from the "perfect source of truth" are correct and have garbled the original message (if there even was one) with their own pride and desire to know the one truth.

It boggles my mind how people can blatantly disregard science (not just a few theories, but the practice of science in general) in favor of divine feelings because they don't want to think they might be wrong. Science is not the practice of pride, individual scientists may be prideful and flawed, but science itself claims to know nothing and only seeks to better understand the world. Religion is the one full of pride claiming to know all the answers and to have received them directly from the allmighty meaning they are unquestionable. You think "well it's ok because we really did get our answers from God." Yeah, that's what they all say, forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical.

[How deep do you believe?]

I am glad to hear that. And I am glad you are asking questions. You ask in sincerity. I appreciate that about you. You WILL find what you are looking for.

Faith is a decision. You chose to believe. The same way you choose to believe your wife loves you. It ain't perfect or absolute. But you have faith enough to hold her hand.... that goes well so you have exercise a little more faith to smooch! Pretty soon your faith has ground so much you fork out the cash for a diamond..... and finally you commit and say 'I do'. Nothing logical about any of that! And apparently you made it through the process ok. It is the same thing with God. God will find a way to connect with you in a way your mind will understand. I know it. Good luck. It is ok if it takes a long time. Even years.

Thanks, I'll keep waiting for that day.