Do prophets still walk and talk with God?

[nbtex01]

It has been stated in the scriptures that many prophets, including Adam, walked and talked with God face-to-face. I wonder: do the prophets of our modern Church still invoke that same right given to past and previous prophets?

I may be kind of out-of-line by asking, but I was wondering about different views on this, as I can safely say that just about no-one here is a personal friend of President Monson. :)

[Guest tomk]

The pattern of the scriptures suggests that ANYONE who follows the Lord with "full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy before Him" can have the priviledge of seeing Him in the flesh while still mortal. That is what makes this journey so exciting -- the thought of that future reunion!

It is not just reserved for prophets and apostles. Even the "least" Saint can see the Lord.

This talk may interest you:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Ten Blessings of the Priesthood

Especially Blessing 10.

Tom

[Hemidakota]

It has been stated in the scriptures that many prophets, including Adam, walked and talked with God face-to-face. I wonder: do the prophets of our modern Church still invoke that same right given to past and previous prophets?

I may be kind of out-of-line by asking, but I was wondering about different views on this, as I can safely say that just about no-one here is a personal friend of President Monson. :)

I wouldn't say that for there are GAs that frequent this board.

If the Lord is not busy, He attends to those of leaders or Saints that may require personal attention.

Read Doctrine and Covenants 88 This may help you...

President Lorenzo Snow defined it as follows:

The priesthood or authority in which we stand is the medium or channel through which our Heavenly Father has purposed to communicate light, intelligence, gifts, powers, and spiritual and temporal salvation unto the present generation [Millennial Star, May, 1841]

President Joseph Fielding Smith was asked if Apostles need to see the Savior and here is his response:

Let us consider briefly the great responsibilities which devolve upon the apostles. They are special witnesses for Jesus Christ. It is their right to know the truth and have an abiding witness, and this is an exacting duty upon them, to know that Jesus Christ is in very deed the Only Begotten Son of God, the Redeemer of the world and the Savior of all those who will confess their sins, repent and keep his commandments.

The question frequently arises: "Is it necessary for the members of the Council of the Twelve to see the Savior in order to be an apostle?" It is their privilege to see him if occasion requires, but the Lord has taught that there is a stronger witness than seeing a personage, even of the Son of God, in a vision. I wish we could get this clear in the minds of members of the Church. The Savior said:

Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Matthew 12:31-32.

Therefore the seeing, even the Savior, does not leave as deep an impression in the mind as does the testimony of the Holy Ghost to the spirit. Both Peter and Paul understood this. Here are the words of Paul:

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost.

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come.

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6.

The importance here is to have that Holy Spirit prior in order to have this pinnacle of vision.

[Hemidakota]

Some more tidbit with "Joseph Smith's Kirtland"

Appearances of the Father and the Son

"This is the testimony . . . which we give of him: That he lives! For we saw him, even on the right hand of God." (Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon.)

Other Important Events in Ohio, 1831-1838HCEssential to launching a new dispensation of the gospel was a sure knowledge of the Father and the Son given to the Prophet Joseph Smith and other Church leaders. The Church in Kirtland was developed by the Lord through a prophet and other leaders who had personal knowledge of Him, and a major part of this schooling involved firsthand knowledge and understanding of Deity. Such knowledge, given through numerous appearances or visions of the Father and/or the Son, assured the Saints that God exists and that Christ is a living personage. Following appearances of the Father and the Son in the Whitney store, the Prophet said, "Brethren, now you are prepared to be the Apostles of Jesus Christ, for you have seen both the Father and the Son, and know that They exist and that They are two separate Personages."

Other Important Events in Ohio, 1831-1838HCThe visions and appearances of Deity in the Kirtland area that have been documented number at least into the teens and took place at four separate sites. Several witnesses also included descriptions of the heavenly beings.

Joseph Smith, Lyman Wight, and Harvey Whitlock received a vision of both God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ, in the log schoolhouse on the Isaac Morley farm during a conference held from June 3 to 6, 1831. Levi Hancock recorded that the Prophet was speaking to the elders when he "stepped out on the floor and said, 'I now see God, and Jesus Christ at his right hand, let them kill me, I should not feel death as I am now.'"

John Whitmer, the official Church historian and recorder, wrote of this same appearance:

The spirit of the Lord fell upon Joseph in an unusual manner. . . . After he had prophesied he laid his hands upon Lyman Wight [and ordained him] to the High Priesthood. . . . And the spirit fell upon Lyman, and he prophesied, concerning the coming of Christ. . . . He saw the heavens opened, and the Son of man sitting on the right hand of the Father. Making intercession for his brethren, the Saints. He said that God would work a work in these last days that tongue cannot express, and the mind is not capable to conceive. The glory of the Lord shone around.

Zebedee Coltrin, who was also present, said that an evil power seized Harvey Whitlock. "Joseph rebuked the power that had seized [Harvey], and it left him, and he testified, as Lyman [Wight] had done, that he saw the heavens open, and Jesus standing on the right hand of the Father."

On February 16, 1832, in an upper room of the John Johnson home at Hiram, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon received a glorious vision in which they beheld the Father and the Son as well as "the holy angels, and them who are sanctified before his throne." (D&C 76:21.) The Prophet recorded:

The Lord touched the eyes of our understandings and they were opened, and the glory of the Lord shone round about. And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness; and saw the holy angels, and them who are sanctified before his throne, worshiping God, and the Lamb, who worship him forever and ever. And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives! For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God. (D&C 76:19-24.)

At this time, both Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon were permitted to see in vision the fall of Lucifer, which gave them an understanding of Lucifer's role as well as the role of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

The Father and the Son each appeared in the Newel K. Whitney store about the time the Prophet formally organized the office of the First Presidency on March 18, 1833. That day was depicted as a day of revelation and vision, for angels and other heavenly messengers were also seen. Following the ordination of the Presidency, the Prophet recorded:

I exhorted the brethren to faithfulness and diligence in keeping the commandments of God, and gave much instruction for the benefit of the Saints, with a promise that the pure in heart should see a heavenly vision; and after remaining a short time in secret prayer, the promise was verified; for many present had the eyes of their understanding opened by the Spirit of God, so as to behold many things. . . . Many of the brethren saw a heavenly vision of the Savior, and concourses of angels, and many other things, of which each one has a record of what he saw.

One participant, John Murdock, experienced a vision of the Savior similiar to that of John the Revelator:

The visions of my mind were opened, and the eyes of my understanding were enlightened, and I saw the form of a man, most lovely! The visage of his face was sound and fair as the sun. His hair, a bright silver grey, curled in most majestic form, His eyes, a keen penetrating blue, and the skin of his neck a most beautiful white, and He was covered from the neck to the feet with a loose garment, pure white, whiter than any garment I have ever before seen. His countenance was most penetrating, and yet most lovely! And while I was endeavoring to comprehend the whole personage, from head to feet, it slipped from me, and the Vision was closed up. But it left on my mind the impression of love, for months, that I never before felt, to that degree.

Zebedee Coltrin related that he also saw the Savior, following which he saw God the Father, who "was surrounded as with a flame of fire, which was so brilliant that I could not discover anything else but His person. I saw His hands, His legs, his feet, his eyes, nose, mouth, head and body in the shape and form of a perfect man. . . . This appearance was so grand and overwhelming that it seemed I should melt down in His presence, and the sensation was so powerful that it thrilled through my whole system and I felt it in the marrow of my bones."

Probably no other place was as sacred to the early Saints as the Kirtland Temple. Even Moses, who many dispensations earlier had stood on "holy ground," appeared to the Prophet here. (D&C 110:11.) The many revelations, visions, and appearances of Deity and other messengers truly sanctified and made the temple holy. The faithful Saints sacrificed and worked despite poverty and tribulation to prepare themselves for the Prophet's promise that they would see the Savior in the temple.

On January 21, 1836, one of the most glorious visions in recorded history occurred as Joseph Smith and about three dozen other men were assembled in the temple. Present were the First Presidency, Joseph Smith Sr., a scribe, the bishoprics of both Kirtland and Missouri, and members of the Kirtland and the Missouri high councils. The Prophet wrote that after spiritual anointings and blessings, the Presidency "laid their hands upon me, and pronounced upon my head many prophecies and blessings. . . .The heavens were opened upon us and I beheld the celestial kingdom of God, and the glory thereof, whether in the body or out I cannot tell. I saw the transcendent beauty of the gate through which the heirs of that kingdom will enter, which was like unto circling flames of fire; also the blazing throne of God, whereon was seated the Father and the Son. I saw the beautiful streets of that kingdom, which had the appearance of being paved with gold. . . .Many of my brethren . . . saw glorious visions also. Angels ministered unto them as well as to myself, and the power of the Highest rested upon us, the house was filled with the glory of God, and we shouted Hosanna to God and the Lamb.

On April 3, 1836, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were privileged to see the Savior in an overwhelming confirmation of his acceptance of their efforts to build and dedicate the temple. The Prophet wrote:

We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under His feet was a paved work of pure gold in color like amber. His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of His head was white like the pure snow, His countenance shone above the brightness of the sun, and His voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying: I am the first and the last, I am He who liveth, I am He who was slain, I am your advocate with the Father.

Many other visions and appearances of the Lord were experienced in the Kirtland Temple by individuals who had sacrificed and labored for its completion. Orson Pratt recalled, "In that house the veil was taken away from the eyes of many of the servants of God and they beheld his glory."

According to one estimate, "hundreds of others" had such experiences. Joseph Smith promised, "All who are prepared, and are sufficiently pure to abide the presence of the Savior, will see him in the solemn assembly [in the temple]."

Many accounts are available in journals and official publications that testify of sacred experiences during this pentecostal period. Large numbers were present during some of these spiritual manifestations. Among them are the following:

January 21, 1836. In the presence of about ten Church leaders, Joseph Smith "saw the Twelve . . . and Jesus standing in their midst. . . . The Savior looked upon them and wept." Later, in a meeting of about thirty some "saw the face of the Savior."

January 28, 1836. Some one hundred Melchizedek Priesthood members—high priests, seventies, and elders—were assembled when Zebedee Coltrin "saw the Savior extended before him, as upon the cross, and a little after, crowned with glory upon his head above the brightness of the sun." Those present also heard Joseph Smith exclaim aloud, "I behold the Savior, the Son of God."

March 30, 1836. With three hundred priesthood leaders assembled in the temple, "the Savior made his appearance to some, while angels ministered to others."

In addition to these visions in the temple, others testified that God spoke to them. Warren Snow, while on a mission to England many years later, declared: "I have seen the power of God manifested. . . . I remember when receiving my endowments in the Temple at Kirtland, I heard the voice of God as plain as I hear my own, and this testimony I have borne for thirty-one years."

The Savior's presence was felt by many who were not privileged to see him in Kirtland. Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner described one such experience that occurred at the Morley farm in 1831:

Said he [Joseph Smith,] "There are enough here to hold a little meeting." Joseph looked around very solemnly. It was the first time some of them had ever seen him. They got a board and put it across two chairs to make seats. Martin Harris sat on a little box at Joseph's feet. They sang and prayed. Joseph got up and began to speak to us. As he began to speak very solemnly and very earnestly all at once his countenance changed and he stood mute. Those who looked at him that day said there was a search light within him, over every part of his body. I never saw anything like it on the earth. I could not take my eyes off of him. He got so white that anyone who saw him would have thought he was transparent. I remember I thought I could almost see the bones through the flesh. I have been through many changes since, but that is photographed on my brain. I shall remember it and see in my mind's eye as long as I remain upon the earth. He stood some minutes. He looked over the congregation as if to pierce every heart. Said he: "Do you know who has been in your midst?" One of the Smiths said "an angel of the Lord." Martin Harris said: "t was our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ." Joseph put his hands down on Martin and said: "God revealed that to you. Brothers and Sisters, the spirit of God has been in your midst. The Savior has been here this night and I want to tell you to remember it. There is a vail over your eyes for you could not endure to look upon Him." . . .Then he knelt down and prayed. I have never heard anything like it before or since. I felt that he was talking to the Lord and that power rested down upon us in every fiber of our bodies, and we received a sermon from the lips of the representative of God.

The dispensation of the fulness of times was launched by the Father and Son themselves, and they personally prepared Joseph Smith and others for their leadership roles in the restored church. Like Moses, who was told, "put off thy shoes . . . [for] the place whereon thou standest is holy ground" (Exodus 3:5), these modern leaders truly stood on holy ground in "the Ohio."

[bert10]

Yes....that is the answer to your question.

It is impossible to have a true testimony of Jesus Christ without the Spirit of prophecy. All men who have this testimony are prophets. Only they are not called to a mission to the nations as the prophets of old.

Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

A Dysfunctional Church is having a prophet or two for the majority. And in a functional Church of God is: that all men are prophets.

Numbers 11:29 - And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

Peace be unto you

bert10

It has been stated in the scriptures that many prophets, including Adam, walked and talked with God face-to-face. I wonder: do the prophets of our modern Church still invoke that same right given to past and previous prophets?

I may be kind of out-of-line by asking, but I was wondering about different views on this, as I can safely say that just about no-one here is a personal friend of President Monson. :)

[Hemidakota]

Adding to Berts remarks, we need to gain the image of our Elder brother Jesus the Christ or in another words - "..be that TYPE called the Christ." If you understand this phrase then you understand the depth meaning behind the role of the Priesthood and being in the Service of your fellow man[woman].

[chashathaway]

Elder L. Aldin Porter of the 70 said:

"Some years ago I enjoyed a stake conference assignment as a junior companion to Elder LeGrand Richards, who had, under the influence of this directing Spirit, reorganized a stake presidency. We were driving home; he was very pensive. After a rather long period of silence, I asked him if there was something he would like to teach me. Quietly he said, “We have too many in the Church who deny the spirit of prophecy and of revelation.” That was it—he said no more about it. As I reminisced about the calling of the new stake president that day, it occurred to me then that this Church could not function for even one day without the spirit of prophecy and revelation."

President Monson receives revelation every day, whether by seeing God, dreams, open vision, the still small voice, or simply by acting on feelings. I suspect the Lord reveals things to Him in different ways as He sees fit.

The prophet receives revelation as surely as Joseph Smith, Moses, or any other prophet, and it is just as important – even more important that we follow his counsel than for us to follow dead prophets.

The prophet still walks and talks with God regularly.

[sixpacktr]

TomK

I'm surprised you used Elder McConkie's talk, given that so many feel he was too 'hard core' with his teachings! Thank you for that talk.

Chashataway,

Thanks for that tidbit. It is so very true that too many deny the source from which we claim to be different, mainly the right to revelation in our lives and the necessity of it in the 'life' of the Church.

After being on this board for over a year, I have noticed that there is a lot of contention in a lot of ways regarding the doctrines of the Church. Last night, as my wife and I were reading the BOM, we read this:

21 And it came to pass that the seventy and sixth year did end in peace. And the seventy and seventh year began in peace; and the church did spread throughout the face of all the land; and the more part of the people, both the Nephites and the Lamanites, did belong to the church; and they did have exceedingly great peace in the land; and thus ended the seventy and seventh year.

22 And also they had peace in the seventy and eighth year, save it were a few contentions concerning the points of doctrine which had been laid down by the prophets.

23 And in the seventy and ninth year there began to be much strife. But it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi, and many of their brethren who knew concerning the true points of doctrine, having many revelations daily, therefore they did preach unto the people, insomuch that they did put an end to their strife in that same year.

24 And it came to pass that in the eightieth year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi, there were a certain number of the dissenters from the people of Nephi, (bold and italics mine)

(Helaman11:21 - 24)

We think we are so wise with our sophistries sometimes, trying to pick which teachings of the prophets and apostles we will keep, trying to ascertain when they speak as a man and when they speak as a servant of the Lord. We are commanded to have the Spirit with us, and are promised it when we are baptized and every week we partake of the sacrament, if we will be obedient. Sin causes us to grow apart from God and the spirit, until we are left to our own devices, which usually doesn't turn out so well. Here we have an example of the Nephites, aftera mass conversion, questioning the points of doctrine of the Prophets, so much so that there was great strife and then a mass dissension to the Gadianton robbers.

We must be very careful how we speak of and regard the prophets and apostles. Our eternal lives are at stake.