How did Joseph translate the Book of Mormon?

[Moksha]

The Urim and Thummim was designed for people of larger statue, namely the people of Jared. [book of Ether].

Like Zelph and Andre the Giant?

[VisionOfLehi]

Why do Trey Parker and Matt Stone(South Park creators) like to make fun of the LDS church?

They make fun of EVERYone.

[HiJolly]

Why do Trey Parker and Matt Stone(South Park creators) like to make fun of the LDS church?

They like to make fun of everything and anything, including the LDS church. They grew up in Colorado, IIRC, and had some friends that were LDS. I compared their piece on Mormonism with what they did on Catholics and some other Churches --- they were very kind to the LDS, in comparison. VERY.

HiJolly

[bytor2112]

So, does President Monson also have the ability to translate by use of the Seer stone or is that only available when deemed necessary by Heavenly Father? I always wondered about the Mark Hoffman deal and the supposed controversies with Book of Abraham.

[MrNirom]

I found this interesting:

Once Martin found a rock closely resembling the seerstone Joseph sometimes used in place of the interpreters and substituted it without the Prophet's knowledge. When the translation resumed, Joseph paused for a long time and then exclaimed, "Martin, what is the matter, all is as dark as Egypt." Martin then confessed that he wished to "stop the mouths of fools" who told him that the Prophet memorized sentences and merely repeated them.

[MrNirom]

Mormons do not practice polygamy any more, although we once did. It is a true principle of our religion. We just are not authorized by God to practice it at this time.

I think in all fairness.. especially to our anti friends.. we do need to explain that polygamy is still going on.. but not the way people think.

If a man marries a woman.. and is sealed to her for all time and eternity.. and she dies.. he can marry another woman.. and also be sealed to her for all time and eternity. So he is now married/sealed to two women. So we still practice it.. but not where we marry two or more living, breathing women at the same time.

[Snow]

HUH? He used a stone he found in a WELL? See this is why I have so many problems with the church-Why dont I know that? How dodgy does it make the whole translation process sound? Why was I taught he used the Urim and thummim but the whole seer stone thing was edited out? I just dont get it.

Edited out of what?

[Snow]

It was after my graduation that I began to research the Church's history. After every item I found that was new to me, I did not feel betrayed; I did not feel lied to; I did not feel 'bad' in any way. Rather, I was excited to hear something new and, many times, something quite unexpected.

I see the problem here. You have not yet learned the appropriate "victim mentality." You foolishly suppose that you yourself are responsible for your own beliefs and knowledge. Think how much better off you'd be if you dropped that pretense and simply whined that others didn't spoon feed you everything, that they lied and manipulated you.

Get with the program.

[Snow]

I recall reading at FAIR that the KJV Bible not the more ancient manuscripts influenced some parts of the translation. Book of Mormon anachronisms/Translation Errors from the KJV.

Book of Mormon anachronisms/Translation Errors from the KJV - FAIRMormon

If Joseph Smith did not have a Bible in front of him somebody did. Otherwise to include any modern variants not found in ancient manuscripts would require a vast memory. Either Joseph Smith had that memory of the KJV or someone else did. But i based my answer on ideas that came to me while studying the article from FAIR.

It's obvious that JS simply relied on the KJV for parts of the BoM plate translation, making minor changes, usually improvements, here and there.

I thought the point you were making was that God relied upon the KJV.

[MrNirom]

HUH? He used a stone he found in a WELL? See this is why I have so many problems with the church-Why dont I know that? How dodgy does it make the whole translation process sound? Why was I taught he used the Urim and thummim but the whole seer stone thing was edited out? I just dont get it.

The stories are out there.. but it does not change the fact that God spoke to him and had him translate the Book of Mormon. Does not the spirit testify to that?

Here are some URL's for you to check out:

Brigham Young is reported to have said, "the seer stone which Joseph Smith first obtained He got in an Iron kettle 25 feet under ground. He saw it while looking in another seers stone which a person had. He went right to the spot & dug & found it."13

B.H. Roberts tells us about another seer stone: "A chocolate-colored, somewhat egg-shaped stone which the Prophet found while digging a well...for Mr. Clark Chase."14

1.Green seer stone owned by Utah pioneer Philo Dibble. Matches description of stone given to Joseph Smith by Jack Belcher in Pennsylvania in the 1820's. Dibble family folklore includes story of Philo receiving stone from Joseph.

2. Sandy colored seer stone apparently used by Joseph Smith. Smith's widow Emma passed it on to relatives of her second husband, Lewis Bidamon. (Wilford Wood Museum)

3. Stone of David Whitmer, who was a special witness to the Book of Mormon.

(LDS Photo Archives)

4. Stone of Jacob Whitmer, son of David, and special witness to the Book of Mormon

(Rick Grunder - Books)

Seer Stones

Joseph Smith wrote that in 1823 an angel told him about "two stones in silver bows . . . fastened to a breastplate . . . the possession and use of [which] constituted 'seers' in ancient or former times" (JS—H 1:35). Joseph used these and other seer stones that he found in various ways (occasionally referred to by the biblical term Urim and Thummim) for several purposes, primarily in translating the Book of Mormon and receiving revelations (see HC 1:21–23, 33, 36, 45, 49; 3:28; 5:xxxii; CHC 6:230–31).

Historical sources suggest that effective use of the instruments required Joseph to be at peace with God and his fellowmen, to exercise faith in God, and to exert mental effort (CHC 1:128–33). Otherwise, little is said authoritatively about their operation. Occasionally, people have been deceived by trying to use stones to receive revelation, the best-known latter-day example in the Church being Hiram Page (D&C 28:11–12).

While useful in translating and receiving revelation, seer stones are not essential to those processes. Elder Orson Pratt reported that Joseph Smith told him that the Lord gave him the Urim and Thummim when he was inexperienced as a translator but that he later progressed to the point that he no longer needed the instrument ("'Two Days' Meeting at Brig-ham City," Millennial Star 36 [1874]: 498–99).

Edited July 5, 2008 by MrNirom

[john doe]

I see the problem here. You have not yet learned the appropriate "victim mentality." You foolishly suppose that you yourself are responsible for your own beliefs and knowledge. Think how much better off you'd be if you dropped that pretense and simply whined that others didn't spoon feed you everything, that they lied and manipulated you.

Get with the program.

I admit i haven't been following this thread, but when I read this, I laughed out loud. Thanks, Snow!