The Challenge The Book Of Mormon

[Snow]

Don't get me wrong. I rank Einstein as the second greatest scientist and one of the dozen most influential human beings to date. But, I don't equate the impact of science with the impact of religion. Not that one is more important or better than the other but whereas science may speak to the "soul" of you geeky science nerds , religion speaks to all mankind, generally, like nothing else, save sex or chocolate

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

So does no one want to challenge my statement about Tolkein? Come on! This can't be that easy!

[Guest bat]

Originally posted by Snow@Jan 29 2004, 07:43 PM

Don't get me wrong. I rank Einstein as the second greatest scientist and one of the dozen most influential human beings to date. But, I don't equate the impact of science with the impact of religion. Not that one is more important or better than the other but whereas science may speak to the "soul" of you geeky science nerds , religion speaks to all mankind, generally, like nothing else, save sex or chocolate

Are you equally or more impressed with Muhammed and the fruits of his efforts?

[Cal]

Snow--speak for yourself. When I think of what science has done for humanity, my chest wells up and I get a warm fuzzy feeling all over. What do you mean science doesn't do anything for the soul?!

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Science, like religion, is both good and evil.

[Snow]

Cal,

I am a minor geek. I have no great understanding of science but find it as fascinating as anything, except religion. However, beyond the homage I pay to your noble geekdom, science, for most of humanity, is something that makes their vaccum work, not a life changing discipline.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I get a warm fuzzy feeling when I think about evolution.

I imagine myself as a gorrilla sitting in the jungle peacefully munching on a plant without a care in the world, and I say to myself "this is the true Eden".

Then I look how far we humans have fallen, and I get sad.

[Cal]

The fact that it is not a "life changing discipline" says nothing about its importance. The fact that religion has played an important part in man's evolution hardly changes the revolutionary changes for the good wrought by science.

[Snow]

Hey there big fella.

I'm on your side. Science good. Lack of appreciation for the magnificience of science bad.

I thought you might question my statement that Einstein was the SECOND greatest scientist, but then you probably agree with my choice for the first???

[Guest bat]

Originally posted by Snow@Jan 29 2004, 08:10 PM

Hey there big fella.

I'm on your side. Science good. Lack of appreciation for the magnificience of science bad.

I thought you might question my statement that Einstein was the SECOND greatest scientist, but then you probably agree with my choice for the first???

If god is such a great scientist, can he prove that he exists?

[Guest lt]

Bat,

You are alive are you not? you breathe, you eat, you have a job, you have a son?

Do you think these are not ways to show he exists?

Or are you waiting for the great and all mighty lightening BOLT KAAA WAAAA BOOM!!!!

Do you believe now?

I still have hope for my bat buster

Laureltree

[Guest bat]

Originally posted by LaurelTree@Jan 29 2004, 08:22 PM

Bat,

  You are alive are you not? you breathe, you eat, you have a job, you have a son?

Do you think these are not ways to show he exists?

Or are you waiting for the great and all mighty lightening BOLT KAAA WAAAA BOOM!!!!

Do you believe now?

I still have hope for my bat buster

Laureltree

I exist, therefore the mormon god exists. It's so simple, it boggles my mind.

If I quit my job and went on a hunger strike for a day, would that make him not exist anymore?

[Cal]

Naaa, if God created the universe, Einstein is indeed second. Problem is....lots of proof Einstein existed. Not so much for God.

As for Laurel's argument...it sounds a lot like when the fish in the aguarium get together..."there must be a God, who else changes the water?"

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by bat+Jan 29 2004, 08:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bat @ Jan 29 2004, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Jan 29 2004, 08:10 PM

Hey there big fella.

I'm on your side. Science good. Lack of appreciation for the magnificience of science bad.

I thought you might question my statement that Einstein was the SECOND greatest scientist, but then you probably agree with my choice for the first???

If god is such a great scientist, can he prove that he exists?

For some He doesn't exist....I mean if you are 'nothing'....then your God would be nothing (or non-existent) as well....wouldn't He?

1 Cor. 13:

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, <span style=\'color:blue\'>I am nothing.

Like it says....without Christ's pure love (and if you don't believe in it...it doesn't exist for you...) then you are nothing.

There are many many many 'nothings' out there. Can anyone prove there is no God....Well yes....those who don't believe in God...already proved it to and for themselves..

Of course the opposite is true as well. All things have an opposite which is just as real....

So all those who do have charity because they do believe God/Christ is real and His love is real.....prove to themselves daily that God does indeed exist... :)

[Guest Starsky]

So...you can only prove that God exists or not to yourself. No one can prove God does or doesn't exist to another person. It is completely and personally conditional.

[Cal]

We agree!

[Guest bat]

Originally posted by Peace@Jan 29 2004, 09:56 PM

So...you can only prove that God exists or not to yourself. No one can prove God does or doesn't exist to another person. It is completely and personally conditional.

You meant "convince yourself" and not "prove", didn't you?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by bat+Jan 29 2004, 10:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bat @ Jan 29 2004, 10:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Jan 29 2004, 09:56 PM

So...you can only prove that God exists or not to yourself. No one can prove God does or doesn't exist to another person. It is completely and personally conditional.

You meant "convince yourself" and not "prove", didn't you?

No....proof. Absolute proof.

[Guest bat]

Originally posted by Peace+Jan 29 2004, 10:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Jan 29 2004, 10:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -bat@Jan 29 2004, 10:33 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Jan 29 2004, 09:56 PM

So...you can only prove that God exists or not to yourself. No one can prove God does or doesn't exist to another person. It is completely and personally conditional.

You meant "convince yourself" and not "prove", didn't you?

No....proof. Absolute proof.

Are you saying that "proof" is subjective?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by bat+Jan 29 2004, 11:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bat @ Jan 29 2004, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Peace@Jan 29 2004, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by -bat@Jan 29 2004, 10:33 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Jan 29 2004, 09:56 PM

So...you can only prove that God exists or not to yourself. No one can prove God does or doesn't exist to another person. It is completely and personally conditional.

You meant "convince yourself" and not "prove", didn't you?

No....proof. Absolute proof.

Are you saying that "proof" is subjective?

<span style='font-family:Geneva'>One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people. He said, "My son, the battle is between 2 wolves.

One is Evil. It is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf wins?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

[Guest bat]

Originally posted by Peace+Jan 29 2004, 11:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Jan 29 2004, 11:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -bat@Jan 29 2004, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by -Peace@Jan 29 2004, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by -bat@Jan 29 2004, 10:33 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Jan 29 2004, 09:56 PM

So...you can only prove that God exists or not to yourself. No one can prove God does or doesn't exist to another person. It is completely and personally conditional.

You meant "convince yourself" and not "prove", didn't you?

No....proof. Absolute proof.

Are you saying that "proof" is subjective?

<span style='font-family:Geneva'>One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people. He said, "My son, the battle is between 2 wolves.

One is Evil. It is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf wins?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

Good job with the irrelevant reply. I suppose this constitutes "proof" in your brain?

[Guest antishock82003]

I just proved that God doesn't exist. I prayed to It, and asked it to strike me dead on the spot, and that if It didn't do it, then that would be proof that It doesn't exist. I'm typin'...so I guess It doesn't exist. PROOF!!

[Ray]

If you can’t arouse your faculties enough to acknowledge that there is a God, as evidenced by everything that you can see around you, then how do you ever expect to learn anything? Do you really believe that the Earth and all of life came into being from chaos? If there is order to the universe, there must be some kind of supreme being. Logic alone can tell you there’s a God, but what kind of being is He, and what does He think about all of this stuff you see around you? When you really truly want to know the answer to your questions, you must ask God with assurance that He will answer you. Stop being silly and get to it.

Oh wait. Nevermind. You don't have to try to get to know God if you don't want to. That's your choice. Sorry. I was out of line. :)

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Some people believe it is logical to believe in an eternal God who created a universe with rational laws.

Why would it not be logical to believe that the entire universe is eternal and run by rational laws that always existed?

Either God is eternal or the universe is eternal.

Neither explanation is more logical than the other.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Jan 30 2004, 01:38 PM

Some people believe it is logical to believe in an eternal God who created a universe with rational laws.

Why would it not be logical to believe that the entire universe is eternal and run by rational laws that always existed?

Either God is eternal or the universe is eternal.

Neither explanation is more logical than the other.

We know that the universe exists, and that within this universe there is life. It is therefore logical to conclude that that there must be some kind of supreme form of life in this universe. Are we it, or is there some other form of life that is even more supreme than we are?

Maybe I should start a thread. Yes, I think so, but what shall I call it? Hmm, I think I’ll call it “Life as we know it, for those who don’t know”. See you there.