LDS Missionary Encounter

[bytor2112]

I think there may have been some miscommunication. Mark Driscoll is a pretty famous person and the Mars Hill group is fantastic. But Mark Driscoll -is- quite the character, in a totally non-condescending way.

I remember this last year on Easter when, in order to show people the true suffering that occurred on the cross, they suspended a man on a cross for the duration of his preaching up in the Mars Hill chapel in Seattle. It stirred up quite a lot of controversy.

Mark Driscoll is intelligent, interesting and erudite. I think maybe it was just a miscommunication. I like him, personally.

Since reading this thread I have had the opportunity to read a bit on Mark Driscoll. This guy doesn't have a clue what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is really about and sadly I suspect that the members of his church don't either. You may find him interesting and intelligent and erudite (?? certainly not erudite with regard to the Gospel), I find him to be arrogant and ignorant. Their is nothing Christ like about his comments. He decribes Jesus as a Pride fighter with a tatoo down his leg and a sword in his hand.......

This guy is so bombastic and spews this testosterone, faux-macho rhetoric. Why anyone would believe the non-sense that this guy sells is stunning. Tough guys for Christ?? More likely, arrogant, loud mouths who don't undertand Christ. Mr. Johnson was dealt a terrible disservice when he left the Lord's church for this bombastic, steroid approach to priestraft.

Edited July 27, 2008 by bytor2112

[FunkyTown]

This guy is so bombastic and spews this testosterone, faux-macho rhetoric. Why anyone would believe the non-sense that this guy sells is stunning. Tough guys for Christ?? More likely, arrogant, loud mouths who don't undertand Christ. Mr. Johnson was dealt a terrible disservice when he left the Lord's church for this bombastic, steroid approach to priestraft.

And, as a secondary part of what I had said about Mark, the same applies to you: Of course you don't believe what Mark Driscoll preaches. If you did, you'd be part of Mars Hill. Have you ever heard any of Mark Driscoll's sermons? They're well-thought out and well reasoned. If you listen to him with a need to hate him, you will, but that's not God's way. Love Mark the way you should love all men and recognize he's passionate about Christ and you'll be on your way.

Then, you can comment on what you think of his sermons in a well-reasoned and charitable way. Until then, it's probably best not to dwell on how you feel about him.

[bytor2112]

Bytor? While I love that you're passionate about this, I want to point out something:

The LDS church disagrees with Mark Driscoll on several points he considers key. Of course he calls us false. If he didn't, he would be LDS. Mark Driscoll doesn't hate members of our church. He's a genuinely nice guy who loves his fellow man.

So, to reiterate: Of course he thinks we're wrong. If he didn't, he'd be LDS. That's a fair statement.

With all due respect, there are plenty of denominations who do not refer to the church as a cult. I do not know the man personally and if you say he is a nice guy, that may well be. But, he doesn't understand the Gospel or the nature of the Savior or the Saviors mission and is so evidenced by his bombastic comments. He is not any kind of example of manhood that I would teach my two sons or an example of Christ that I would wish for them to follow.......

Mark Driscoll authored the following:

Roughly two thousand years ago, Jesus was born in a dumpy, rural, hick town, not unlike those today where guys change their own oil, think pro wrestling is real, find women who chew tobacco sexy, and eat a lot of Hot Pockets with their uncle-daddy. Jesus’ mom was a poor, unwed teenage girl who was mocked for claiming she conceived via the Holy Spirit. Most people thought she concocted a crazy story to cover the “fact” she was knocking boots with some guy in the backseat of a car at the prom. Jesus was adopted by a simple carpenter named Joseph and spent the first thirty years of his life in obscurity, swinging a hammer with his dad.

[FunkyTown]

Okay... What Mark's doing there is illustrating exactly what type of person Jesus was in the language that would best be understood by the people he was preaching to. He -did- grow up in a small town that few people respected(John 1:46 'Can any good thing come out of Nazareth'). Jesus' Mom -was- poor and unwed when he was conceived. An angel had to tell Joseph not to break off their engagement. Jesus' first 30 years -were- spent in relative obscurity. We don't know what he did in that time, but when he returned to preach in his land of birth people skeptically didn't believe him: Hence the 'No prophet is honoured in his country'(Luke 4:24) which was so famous.

It sounds like you're upset because he's speaking familiarly of things you hold sacred. I agree. I don't think it's appropriate, but he's trying to reach people that don't feel like God is speaking to them. He's using their language. He does it out of love. Nothing he preached in the quote you gave is against biblical teachings.

[bytor2112]

And, as a secondary part of what I had said about Mark, the same applies to you: Of course you don't believe what Mark Driscoll preaches. If you did, you'd be part of Mars Hill. Have you ever heard any of Mark Driscoll's sermons? They're well-thought out and well reasoned. If you listen to him with a need to hate him, you will, but that's not God's way. Love Mark the way you should love all men and recognize he's passionate about Christ and you'll be on your way.

Then, you can comment on what you think of his sermons in a well-reasoned and charitable way. Until then, it's probably best not to dwell on how you feel about him.

FunkyTown,

First of all, I don't hate Mark Driscoll or anyone else for that matter. I have not heard his sermons..... I have however read portions of some. Well thought out and reasoned?? Based on what? He is passionate about his understanding of Christ and his view of manliness, perhaps. But that doesn't make him good or right. My comments are about his sermons and I feel that what we say is usually a good indication of what is on the inside. Remove his references to Christ and you have what sounds like an arrogant, bully that enjoys making fun of what he doesn't understand. I don't think the world needs a bunch of Mark Driscoll Clones preaching the Gospel according to Mark........

Contrast this type of commentary with that of an Apostle or your Bishop and ask your self which is uplifting and edifying and brings the Spirit. Again, I have no hatred or malice, but I do get fired up about people like him. He does more harm than good, IMO, and it is sad that 6000 people could gladly recieve this kind of message.... again just my opinion.

[bytor2112]

Okay... What Mark's doing there is illustrating exactly what type of person Jesus was in the language that would best be understood by the people he was preaching to. He -did- grow up in a small town that few people respected(John 1:46 'Can any good thing come out of Nazareth'). Jesus' Mom -was- poor and unwed when he was conceived. An angel had to tell Joseph not to break off their engagement. Jesus' first 30 years -were- spent in relative obscurity. We don't know what he did in that time, but when he returned to preach in his land of birth people skeptically didn't believe him: Hence the 'No prophet is honoured in his country'(Luke 4:24) which was so famous.

It sounds like you're upset because he's speaking familiarly of things you hold sacred. I agree. I don't think it's appropriate, but he's trying to reach people that don't feel like God is speaking to them. He's using their language. He does it out of love. Nothing he preached in the quote you gave is against biblical teachings.

I am glad you agree that it is not appropriate. The LDS church has missionaries all over the world as you know. What kind of people is Mr. Driscoll preaching to? Aren't our missionaries teaching the same kind of people? I find his comments about people who do not fit into his ideal of manliness ignorant. How many wonderfully spiritual people have I met and been influenced by, that would be be criticized by his mischaraterization of manliness. Countless, I am sure. A guy in my Bishopric, one of the most spiritual men I have ever met, is also one of the biggest, toughest guys I have ever met and also one of the most genteel men that I have ever met. He would make Mr. Driscoll feel imasculated just by being in his presence. Anyways, it is just a difference of opinion. Mr. Dirscoll will have his chance to hear and recieve the truth one day as will all humankind. Again, I am not trying to offend you FunkyTown.........

Edited July 27, 2008 by bytor2112

[FunkyTown]

Hahah! I can't be offended. I was just worried that someone might hear the anger at Driscoll and confuse it with what the church teaches. I genuinely like everyone. :)

[ErikJohnson]

I find his comments about people who do not fit into his ideal of manliness ignorant. How many wonderfully spiritual people have I met and been influenced by, that would be be criticized by his mischaraterization of manliness. Countless, I am sure. A guy in my Bishopric, one of the most spiritual men I have ever met, is also one of the biggest, toughest guys I have ever met and also one of the most genteel men that I have ever met. He would make Mr. Driscoll feel imasculated just by being in his presence.

Hi Bytor--

Sounds like you've perused a few sound-bites. I'm glad you did. But out of curiosity--what is Pastor Mark's, "Ideal of manliness?" And if he has such a thing, what is it that you find so objectionable and wouldn't wish your own sons to emulate?

--Erik

[FunkyTown]

To be fair, Erik... He probably is referring to one of Mark Driscoll's famous speeches from the pulpit. Mark's words are designed to evoke emotion. They're designed to get a visceral reaction. In this case, it succeeded but it obviously offended him. Mark himself said, "There are two types of people in this world - People I've offended and people who haven't met me, yet."

He's a good man, but you -do- have to understand he can sometimes offend people.

[pam]

I am closing this thread. I think opinions and answers from the OP have been expressed.