They the Gods

[Guest tomk]

In Abr 4:

10 And the Gods pronounced the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, pronounced they, Great Waters; and the Gods saw that they were obeyed.

strange phrasing here.

"pronouncing" dry land?

"...the Gods saw that they were obeyed."

Did the elements have a choice?

"...the Gods saw that they were not obeyed."

Hel. 12: 7-8

7 O how great is the nothingness of the children of men; yea, even they are less than the dust of the earth.

8 For behold, the dust of the earth moveth hither and thither, to the dividing asunder, at the command of our great and everlasting God.

We're nothing because we choose NOT to obey?

The dust of the earth is "greater" than we are, because it always chooses to obey?

Hoping to foster some discussion.

[thejason]

Man was given dominion over all things. Therefore, nothing is greater than man. Man is the only creation given agency. Other creations (animals, plants, etc.) are required to act within their sphere.

[Gillebre]

actually, everything has agency, in some form. when a Priesthood holder commands a house to stand up and not crumble in a hurricane, the spirit of the home hears the authority of it's Creator, and obeys.

it exists as physical matter because it has shown the ability to obey when it's Master commands, or His servants.

Of course, we, as children of God, have the greatest ability to choose...being given to the honor of being His children. how else could the elements or powers of creation obey their Creator? they hear His voice, and His commands, and they obey. Animals, plants, etc... are not required to do anything, but they do so out of obedience to the Master. coercion, even of animals and other creatures, is not a law of Heaven. willing obedience, however, is.

[Guest tomk]

What allows the elements to obey?

Does intelligence figure in?

2 Ne. 2: 14

14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon.

things to act = intelligences?

things to be acted upon = elements (like your house in the hurricane example?)

[Gillebre]

yes, tom.

everything has an 'intelligence'. as we know from scripture, the intelligences are eternal, and have always existed. to me, it makes sense that when Christ (or His authorized servant) speaks, the elements obey...because the elements choose to obey the authority of their Creator.

While their choice is limited somewhat to the capacity in which they are formed (air, water, stones, earth, mountains, etc...), we as humans (and children of God), have more of a capacity because we can be enlarged.

and that example of yours, with Lehi speaking to his sons, is a perfect one.

a book that may help you understand it better is called, 'Earth - In The Beginning' (The Revised Edition), by Eric Skousen.

It takes the scriptural accounts of the creation, along with the words of the Prophets, and lines it all up...it makes sense and I've come to personally find a lot of meaning in it. :)

[Guest tomk]

So, during the sanctification process, we are physically and spiritually...changed?

Our atoms are re-arranged?

[Brenton]

Did the elements have a choice?

"...the Gods saw that they were not obeyed."

To me that would make sense, just like humans having free-will, yeah?

The earth wasnt created as a robot - maybe that sums it up.

[georgia2]

AS far as I have understood this issue, yes, everything has a will, an intelligence . During the creation the elements were commanded to come together to form whatever they were commanded to do. I would assume Jehovah knew what all of the elements were needed to create the things He wanted to create.

"The waves and the wind obey Thy will"

In the scripture where man is described as being lower than the dust, It has been explained to me that what that means is the dust obeys Him, man doesn't.