Myth Buster

[Landy77]

I am not a theologian so I thought I would ask this question here that I have pondered. Is there any references in the bible stating there is not to be communication between the living and the dead? This may seem like a trivial question, but relevant to what I am trying to find out. I was taught that communication between the living and the dead was forbidden in the bible. There is a reference that I know of with Solomon but didn't know of anything else. The reason I am asking is in my mind there appears to be a contradiction. If communication is forbidden and Moroni was once living but is now dead then one of two things is incorrect. Either communication is not forbidden or Moroni was not someone who once lived on this earth.

[MarginOfError]

Well, I should certainly hope that communication between the living and the dead is not strictly forbidden, because then we get into all sorts of problems. To start, Christ communicated with the Apostles following his death. Thus, if such communication is forbidden, then all of Christianity is a farce.

Sure, you might make the argument that Christ wasn't dead, having been resurrected and all...but then again, Moroni was resurrected too, so that would still reconcile that.

I'm not able to cite where communication between the living and the dead is forbidden, and I'm too lazy to look up if such references even exist. If they do, I am confident that these references are in the context of sorceries and wishing to communicate for personal gain, by influences of Satan, or for reasons not condoned by God.

Furthermore, it isn't like God has any problem going against his own rules when necessary. Nephi murdering Laban is an obvious example. Just some different ways of looking at it.

[piper]

I am aware of no scriptural reference in the bible that forbids communication with the dead. There are many that, as stated above, refer to using mediums, sorceries etc. to try and contact the spirits of those that have passed on. So, as I see it, if any contact is to actually be made between the dead and living, it will be initiated from the other side.

mark

[Yekcidmij]

I am not a theologian so I thought I would ask this question here that I have pondered. Is there any references in the bible stating there is not to be communication between the living and the dead? This may seem like a trivial question, but relevant to what I am trying to find out. I was taught that communication between the living and the dead was forbidden in the bible. There is a reference that I know of with Solomon but didn't know of anything else. The reason I am asking is in my mind there appears to be a contradiction. If communication is forbidden and Moroni was once living but is now dead then one of two things is incorrect. Either communication is not forbidden or Moroni was not someone who once lived on this earth.

The Torah commanded God's people, repeatedly, not to touch or come in contact with dead bodies because it made them ceremonially unclean.

Lev 21:11 He shall not go in to any dead bodies nor make himself unclean, even for his father or for his mother.

note: that's an instruction for the high priest

Numbers 19:11 “Whoever touches the dead body of any person shall be unclean seven days. 12 He shall cleanse himself with the water on the third day and on the seventh day, and so be clean. But if he does not cleanse himself on the third day and on the seventh day, he will not become clean. 13 Whoever touches a dead person, the body of anyone who has died, and does not cleanse himself, defiles the tabernacle of the Lord, and that person shall be cut off from Israel; because the water for impurity was not thrown on him, he shall be unclean. His uncleanness is still on him.

Other than that they are told not to contact spirits:

Leviticus 19:31 “Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.

Lev 20:6 “If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people

27 “A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”

Deut 18:9 “When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord.

As far as I can tell the prohibitions are against physically coming in contact with dead bodies and trying to contact spirits through mediums or what have you. If someone came in contact with a dead body they became ritually unclean, which was a big deal then since they couldn't participate in temple worship until they were ceremonially clean again. This is why Jesus' parable about the good Samaritan carried a lot of force, and would have been more shocking, with his audience. The man in Luke 10:30 was left "half dead" which explains why the priest and the Levite (of the priestly class) passed by him. The man was ceremonially unclean; Jesus audience may have even thought the priest and the Levite were correct in their action. What's a priest supposed to do? Be unclean? How will he perfom temple duties?The good news was that they could become ceremonially clean again for 7 days.

It looks like if one tried to contact the dead he was "cut off from the people", which I'm not sure if it meant they were simply sent away or killed. Now, if a person WAS a medium and contacted the dead themselves, the penalty was a little steeper - stoning.

Forbidden:

1) Physical contact with dead bodies

2) Contacting the dead through mediums

3) Contacting the dead yourself

4) Being indwelt by other spirits

Those are pretty much the facts, how that relates to Moroni, I'm not really sure, I'm protestant and haven't really concerned myself with it that much. I have limited knowledge on Moroni.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Yekcidmij

[Guest tomk]

I am not a theologian so I thought I would ask this question here that I have pondered. Is there any references in the bible stating there is not to be communication between the living and the dead? This may seem like a trivial question, but relevant to what I am trying to find out. I was taught that communication between the living and the dead was forbidden in the bible. There is a reference that I know of with Solomon but didn't know of anything else. The reason I am asking is in my mind there appears to be a contradiction. If communication is forbidden and Moroni was once living but is now dead then one of two things is incorrect. Either communication is not forbidden or Moroni was not someone who once lived on this earth.

Well, first of all, we don't really "die." Our spirits leave our bodies. The body cannot live without the spirit. But the spirit is eternal.

We certainly CAN communicate with the world of spirits. God is a God of order. I don't think such communication would be "allowed" for trivial matters. When we are about God's work (lifting and blessing those around us) I think we are entitled to such diving help from the other side of the veil.

Moroni was a resurrected, glorified being when he appeared to Joseph Smith.

[thalia22]

hmm-I find the not coming into contact with dead bodies thing odd. What aboutthose who work in funeral homes etc? I work in a nursing home...and often contact dead bodies???

[Palerider]

The original poster has not been around for a few weeks, perhaps they found their answer and moved on....:)

[Islander]

The Torah commanded God's people, repeatedly, not to touch or come in contact with dead bodies because it made them ceremonially unclean.

Other than that they are told not to contact spirits:

As far as I can tell the prohibitions are against physically coming in contact with dead bodies and trying to contact spirits through mediums or what have you. If someone came in contact with a dead body they became ritually unclean, which was a big deal then since they couldn't participate in temple worship until they were ceremonially clean again. This is why Jesus' parable about the good Samaritan carried a lot of force, and would have been more shocking, with his audience. The man in Luke 10:30 was left "half dead" which explains why the priest and the Levite (of the priestly class) passed by him. The man was ceremonially unclean; Jesus audience may have even thought the priest and the Levite were correct in their action. What's a priest supposed to do? Be unclean? How will he perfom temple duties?The good news was that they could become ceremonially clean again for 7 days.

It looks like if one tried to contact the dead he was "cut off from the people", which I'm not sure if it meant they were simply sent away or killed. Now, if a person WAS a medium and contacted the dead themselves, the penalty was a little steeper - stoning.

Forbidden:

1) Physical contact with dead bodies

2) Contacting the dead through mediums

3) Contacting the dead yourself

4) Being indwelt by other spirits

Those are pretty much the facts, how that relates to Moroni, I'm not really sure, I'm protestant and haven't really concerned myself with it that much. I have limited knowledge on Moroni.

The restrictions about not touching the body (or even stand before the grave site) were directly primarily to the priest class. Family or the burial societies were in charge of preparing the body for burial by washing and anointing, building the casket and sewing the ceremonial shroud.