Week of September 23rd I Nephi Chapters 1-18

[pam]

We can post our comments here as we do our weekly challenge reading that pertains to the scriptures for that week.

[pam]

I'm going to just throw this out even though I haven't read it yet. I was reading this just the other day. In Nephi Chapter 3, it talks about Laman and Lemuel and their anger.

Divine intervention became necessary. But even with them seeing with their own eyes God's power their anger didn't diminish.

The example was given as to how this could relate today. In fact we've been asked this on some threads. Imagine people saying today.."If I could only see the Gold Plates then I would believe." Would they? Laman and Lemuel saw the power of God first hand but they still complained and were fueled by their anger.

[Wingnut]

Thanks Pam! I'll keep doing this for each new week, in addition to updating the original post in the original thread with just the reading assignment for each new week.

[pam]

This was posted by MissHalfWay on the original thread. Thought I'd get it moved over here as well.

I was reading Chapter 4:1

" And it came to pass that I spake unto my brethren saying: Let us go up again unto Jerusalem, and let us be faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord; for behold he is mightier than all the earth, then why not mightier than Laban and his fifty, yea, or even than his tens of thousands? "

And then Nephi proceeds to challenge them to be strong like Moses when he parted the red sea.

I feel strengthened by this. I mean life is sometimes difficult and I am prone to fear. And sometimes I have believed that I was alone. But, here is someone doing really difficult things and risking personal safety to do the will of the Lord in returning to Jerusalem! I can believe the same thing and place my trust in the Lord as I battle my own versions of Laban and the fifty.

[Wingnut]

Last night I was reading 1 Nephi 4-6. I had a couple of thoughts as I read. The first was during the whole Laban-killing thing.

As I read 4:6, I was again impressed at the near perfect faith that Nephi must have had.

6 And I was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand the things which I should do.

I don't think I've ever done that in my life. A few verses later he starts arguing with the Spirit when he is "constrained...that [he] should kill Laban" (v. 10). I was impressed that with such a far-out-in-left-field prompting that Nephi recognized it as the Holy Ghost. I don't think I would have. I would have dismissed a prompting like that as an imitation of the Spirit.

Okay, moving on to Chapter 5. As I read the part about Sariah murmuring against Lehi, I thought about what had been mentioned on this forum already. I can't say that in the same situation, I wouldn't have also murmured by then. As far as we know, Lehi knew that Jerusalem would be destroyed, but didn't know exactly when...maybe Sariah was worried that her sons would still be there when the destruction began. And I loved verses 4-6 when Lehi responds to her. He gently rebukes her, and reminds her that the Lord is in control. It reminded me of the verses in Doctrine and Covenants 121 that talk about the Priesthood.

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—

43 Reproving betimes with bsharpness, when cmoved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of dlove toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;

Those are my thoughts for the day.

[Nappaljarri]

Thursday 25th September 2008

Read 1 Nephi 10-14

Points that I found interest in was:

1. The angel in chapter 11 who was speaking with Nephi. I like the way he teaches Nephi. I think it is a great pattern for me to learn how to teach my children (and others when needed). He brings Nephi to a place (top of the mountain) and starts asking questions of Nephi (what desirest thou etc etc). Nephi gives the answer, that he desires to know and see and understand the interpretation of what his father has just taught him about the vision of the tree of life. The angel then does not just lay it before him and say… this means this and that means that. But he shows Nephi to some visions and from Nephi opening his own eyes and thinking and pondering, he understands the interpretation of his father’s vision. I think that is a great tool of teaching, guiding the student to a certain place (ie scriptures, prophets’ talks etc the list goes on) and then asking questions, and letting them search themselves. Awsome stuff.

2. The end of chapter 11 when the angel talks about the crucifiction and then the house of Israel gathering to fight against the apostles of the Lamb of God. And the last verse describing how the world and all those who fight against the Lamb of God will fall like the great and spacious building. This impresses me so much to always be on the side of the Apostles of the Lamb of God, for if I am in contradiction to them for whatever issue, then great shall be my fall.

3. Chapter 12 vs 17-18. Describes the mists of darkness and the filthy waters. And I never took notice before of the gulf between the rod and the great and spacious building which is described by the angel as being “the word of the justice of the Eternal God”. This says to me that those who are in opposition to God’s law are totally separate from the tree, it is black and white the decisions they are making. So once again it is emphasized to me that I must be on the side of the rod, taking hold of it, else I am in opposition to God.

4. Chapter 13 describing the great and abominable church of the Devil. In vs 5 it describes how this church with the Devil at it’s head “slayeth the saints of God, yeah, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron”. Now Look at the footnote for “yoke”, it says, spiritual bondage. How can the church of the devil bring the ‘Saints’ of God under spiritual bondage. Now look at what the yoke is made of?? Iron… ie: the iron rod. If saints fall into spiritual bondage (or let go of the IRON rod), then they have only themselves to blame. I think the only role the church of the Devil plays in this is the temptations placed before the saints of God. We are spiritually bound by the justice of the Word of God (iron rod) when we sin.

[Nappaljarri]

Friday 26th September 2008

Read 1 Nephi: 15-18

1. Chapter 15 vs 8-9: “And I said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord? And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us. Behold, I said unto them: How is it that ye do not keep the commandments of the Lord? How is it that ye will perish, because of the hardness of your hearts? “ I testify that every time that I have inquired of the Lord about understanding his doctrines, that I have received an answer. And that every time I have not inquired of the Lord to understand his doctrines and scriptures, I have walked around in circles until I have realized that all I needed to do was to inquire of the Lord and he will reveal everything to me that I desire. I know that God is sitting there just waiting to pour out blessings upon our heads, or knowledge and wisdom to help us in our travels here on this earth. He is a loving father who wants to bless us at every chance. But we must keep his law and obey his covenants to receive those blessings.

2. Then Nephi explains the scriptures unto his brothers because they had no faith to inquire of the Lord and find out for themselves. This shows how my point about how the angel taught Nephi in yesterday’s readings helps individuals to come to know the Savior better, as that individual seeks the Lord himself. And if it is all explained to us and given on a platter, it does us no good. From today’s and yesterdays readings, I am changing the way I help my children read the Book of Mormon (and other scripture). I was reading with them and then going to get them to write in their scripture journal something that I have already dictated to them about what the moral of the reading was about, but now I realize, that they are going to learn so much more if they just write what they have learned, even if it is not what I see in the message (after they write what they have learned I will probably give them some more insight from my perspective, but only after they have written what they have learned). It may only be that they learn that Lehi loved his family or something like that, but that is of more importance for them to gain their own personal testimony of something, then me just feeding them something.

3. Chapter 16: 1-2 – “And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear. And it came to pass that I said unto them that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.” How do I feel when I hear the word of God be preached from the mouths of the prophets? Do I say that “oh, it’s not for me”? Do I say,” yes, I am doing that, and I can do this, and this and this better”? Or do I say, the prophet is being too judgmental, that is undoable for me, so therefore the prophet must be wrong.”?

[Nappaljarri]

And a bit more:

1. 16:7 – they took the daughters of Ishmael for wives. The whole point of them leaving Jerusalem would have be destroyed, had they not kept the covenant of the Lord and be married and have posterity.

2. Chapter 17: 36-38 - “Behold, the Lord hath created the earth that it should be inhabited; and he hath created his children that they should possess it. And he raiseth up a righteous nation, and destroyeth the nations of the wicked. And he leadeth away the righteous into precious lands, and the wicked he destroyeth, and curseth the land unto them for their sakes.” This judgement is coming upon this earth once more. It is not because of “carbon emissions” that the earth is changing and “being cursed”, it is because his people do not turn to him and keep their covenants that they have promised to him. He is cursing the whole earth for the sake of The House of Israel, so that they will humble themselves and repent.

3. 1 Nephi: Chapter 17: 41: “And he did straiten them in the wilderness with his rod; for they had hardened their hearts, even as ye have; and the Lord straitened them because of their iniquity. He sent fiery flying serpents among them (I wonder were they dragons?….LOL) and after they were bitten he prepared a way that they might be healed; and the labor which they had to perform was to look; and because of the simpleness of the way, or the easiness of it, there were many who perished.” This is just like today. To be saved and exalted, God has set the pattern of eternal families bound together by the priesthood officiated by this Church. Very simple. Keep the commandments and prosper, don’t keep the commandments and be cut off from his presence. But because of the easiness of this pattern, some try to make it complicated and hard to understand, when it is so simple. And because of the simpleness they stumble and miss the mark (or sin). They try and make other things in life “seem” to be more important than the family (ie: church acitivities, work, church callings, girlfriends, social groups), and in so doing, they stumble and loose their family (being the eternal family unit, created by the power of the priesthood in our temples), the only thing God has commanded us to uphold.

these are just a few points. I will try to keep it to a minimum, but the reading for today was so good.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Nappaljarri

[pam]

No need to keep to a minimum. Your comments are great!!!

[Wingnut]

I'm ashamed at how behind schedule I already am.

Chapter 7-9

Is anyone else amused by the fact that Laman and Lemuel murmur and complain when they have to go back to get the plates, but not when they have to go back to get the girls?

Okay, besides being hard-hearted (and sometimes hard-headed), and "past feeling" I can understand that Laman and Lemuel might have been frustrated by Nephi because of family dynamics. Think about Ch 7:8:

8 And now I, Nephi, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, therefore I spake unto them, saying, yea, even unto Laman and unto Lemuel: Behold ye are mine elder brethren, and how is it that ye are so hard in your hearts, and so blind in your minds, that ye have need that I, your younger brother, should speak unto you, yea, and set an example for you?

L&L were supposed to be the big guys, but instead, all they got was "why can't you be more like your brother?" I can understand the frustration, but not to the point of rage and murder which they always seemed to go to. Which brings me to another point. Ch 7:19-20:

19 And it came to pass that they were angry with me again, and sought to lay hands upon me; but behold, one of the daughters of Ishmael, yea, and also her mother, and one of the sons of Ishmael, did plead with my brethren, insomuch that they did soften their hearts; and they did cease striving to take away my life.

20 And it came to pass that they were sorrowful, because of their wickedness, insomuch that they did bow down before me, and did plead with me that I would forgive them of the thing that they had done against me.

One second L&L are trying to kill Nephi, the next they are bowing before him pleading for his forgiveness. No one can convince me they weren't chemically imbalanced, quite possibly bi-polar. (Yes, I know these are not the most reverent thoughts with regard to the scriptures, but these are the musings that come to mind as I read.)

As I read chapter 8 (Lehi's vision of the tree of life), I thought about the idea that someone shared that the "path" was the family. I've never though that before...I always thought the path was just life...but I can see it. I don't necesarily agree with it, but I can see it. As I read this chapter this time, though, I noticed how quickly Lehi reached the tree. He saw it, went toward it, and was there. It was only after he partook of the fruit that he began to look around and see all the obstacles. While he walked, his vision was focused (see Prov 29:18). I have a note in my scriptures from a sacrament meeting talk by a member of the Stake Presidency, who spoke about the vision. He said that the tree can = the temple, the fruit can = the ordinances, and that the vision is today. Interesting take.

Chapter 9 is pretty boring...not much to say.

[Nappaljarri]

LOL, I love your thoughts Wingnut about Laman and Lemuel etc.

It was me in another post about how the path = the family. Of couse, as you said, you may not believe that solidly, but you can see it. Remember that these visions and the scriptures as they reveal themselves to us, can symbolise different things at different stages of our lives. To me the iron rod = word of God and the path = the family. Makes lots of sense. And the point that you make about how Lehi makes his way to the tree with no vision impairment. Some people may disagree with me here, but I believe that is the symbol of spiritual vision. When one is so converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ that they are no longer distracted or "see" the temptations around them. It is not that the temptations disappear, but that they have "an eye single to the glory of God" and therefore recognise the temptations for what they are, which negates the tempation, because it has no power over them (ie: and the fiery darts of the adversary will have no power over you). So when we live the gospel with our family and see the pattern clearly that God has set forth for us to follow, we see to the tree very clearly and if we keep our eyes fixed on the tree, the path seems easier to follow.

[Wingnut]

LOL, I love your thoughts Wingnut about Laman and Lemuel etc.

Haha, thanks. I'm glad someone else can appreciate the cynicism.

And the point that you make about how Lehi makes his way to the tree with no vision impairment. Some people may disagree with me here, but I believe that is the symbol of spiritual vision. When one is so converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ that they are no longer distracted or "see" the temptations around them. It is not that the temptations disappear, but that they have "an eye single to the glory of God" and therefore recognise the temptations for what they are, which negates the tempation, because it has no power over them (ie: and the fiery darts of the adversary will have no power over you). So when we live the gospel with our family and see the pattern clearly that God has set forth for us to follow, we see to the tree very clearly and if we keep our eyes fixed on the tree, the path seems easier to follow.

That's exactly the thought I'd had as I read it. For as many times and I've read 1 Nephi 1-12 in the past, and as much as I was just trying to "get through" these verses, that stood out to me this time. Perhaps I need to be working on my own spiritual vision?

[pam]

One thing I thought was interesting. While Nephi and his brothers had gone to get the records from Laban, Sariah murmured against her husband. One thing she mentioned was losing her sons to his "visions."

However, once they returned she rejoiced and found Lehi to be all that.

Do you think she really believed or that because her sons returned she just breathed a sigh of relief?

Perhaps playing a little devil's advocate here.

[Wingnut]

I should be getting a new "assignment" tomorrow morning. I thought it was goign to be today, but I haven't gotten it yet. I'll let you know when I do.

I just finished reading 1 Nephi 15, and I was tickled when I read verse 13:

13 And now, the thing which our father meaneth concerning the grafting in of the natural branches through the fulness of the Gentiles, is, that in the latter days, when our seed shall have dwindled in unbelief, yea, for the space of many years, and many generations after the Messiah shall be manifested in body unto the children of men, then shall the fulness of the gospel of the Messiah come unto the Gentiles, and from the Gentiles unto the remnant of our seed—

I served a Spanish speaking mission in California, and taught primarily Latin Americans. I was part of the fulfillment of that prophecy! That just tickled me when I read it.

[Wingnut]

I finally finished this reading assignment last night (a little behind schedule, but I'll over-compensate eventually).

As I read chapter 16, I just became increasingly annoyed with L&L. They're so whiny!! And why is Nephi the only one who can hunt? Why are they sitting around on their butts complaining, instead of out hunting or doing something? I did find it funny, though, in verse 21, that Nephi says "...I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren..." And later (verses 37-38)...why is the only solution L&L can come up with always "let's kill dad, oh, and our brother while we're at it!"? Is that really the first thing that always came up? I suppose that technically, we're reading a biased account, because Nephi is writing it, not L&L, but still...

Okay, moving on (breathe...) to chapter 17 and ship building. First of all, I don't think I'd ever try to cross an ocean in a ship that I built. Let me just state that for the record. I'm impressed that when the Lord commands Nephi to build the ship, the first thing Nephi says is "where do I find ore to make tools with?" It's not "I don't know how" or even "but I don't have tools." It's part of the "go and do" mentality. In this chapter (at least in verses 17-18), I can sympathize with L&L. If my brother started to build a ship while we were all camping on the beach, I would definitely think he'd gone waaaay off the deep end (no pun intended). As I read the rest of chapter 17, I can't help thinking that Nephi must get really annoyed at having to stop an explain things to L&L all the time. He can't just start a job and finish it, because he's constantly having to put those two in their place. Verse 50 reminded me of a CD that I have that I absolutely love. It's right out of the Book of Mormon...it's called From Cumorah's Hill.

Chapter 18 -- again, what's with all the violence? And the stupidity?

[Lydia]

I'd like to join in, but it looks like I have a little bit of catching up to do.

On the thought of the representation of the path during Lehi's vision, I think that there are many possibilities. Personally, I like to think of it as the right path of choices. The iron rod leads from one choice to the next in a straight, narrow line. However, there are many other choices, and when your individual choices do not conform with the Word of God, you stray from the path. To me, the iron rod represents the guidance we have, and the path represents the choices we should make.