Lds Women Affected By Pornography

[Ray]

Originally posted by Cal+Oct 4 2004, 05:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Oct 4 2004, 05:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Oct 4 2004, 03:14 PM

The good news is that people can benefit by hearing from people who make slanderous yet “thought provoking” comments against the doctrine and kingdom of Jesus, as long as people then seek and receive counsel from Jesus to help them understand the truth. 

Jesus allows Lucifer to go on the way he does, after all.

Yet I wonder why people prefer to argue like the devil instead of seeking and trying to persuade people to seek Jesus’ counsel?

And what exactly did Jesus say about either pornography or masterbation?

Did you watch General Conference last weekend? Whether Jesus speaks to us directly or through one of His authorized servants, it is the same. You can also know what He has to about those things by receiving a witness from the Holy Ghost who will testify of Jesus.

And the fact that you may not believe that the things that have been said by His authorized servants are the words of Jesus, or that they were inspired by Him through the power of the Holy Ghost, really doesn’t make any difference. Things that are true are true whether or not you believe in them.

And btw, if you didn't watch General Conference last weekend, you can still find out what was said by getting the next issue of any Church magazine or looking at the main Church website. They should be posted sometime this week.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Cal+Oct 5 2004, 06:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Oct 5 2004, 06:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Blessed@Oct 4 2004, 07:44 PM

He didn't spell it out, but what he did say was if you look at a woman with lust you have already committed adultery in your heart.  He also said if your hand makes you sin then cut it off.  He also says to stay away from sinful situations, etc.  He didn't have to spell it out... this is clear enough for me.

I'm by no means promoting pornography, but let's get a little analytical: First, is there a difference between "a woman" and a picture of a woman? Second, is committing "adultery in your heart" actually a sin. If so, where did Jesus say it was?

Third, when was the last time a church leader recommended that someone cut their hand off?

1) Yes, there is a difference between a picture of a woman and a woman, but a picture of a woman represents the woman in that picture, and when looking at a picture of a woman most people are thinking about that woman and not the picture.

2) Aside from the statements that have been made from Jesus’ authorized servants, He has also said this on several occasions:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a womn to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. – Matthew 5:28

But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman, to lust after her, hath committed adultery already in his heart. – 3 Nephi 12:28

And verily I say unto you, as I have said before, he that looketh on a woman to lust after her, or if any shall commit adultery in their hearts, they shall not have the Spirit, but shall deny the faith and shall fear. – D&C 63:16

Granted, Jesus did not clarify whether a person who did something in their heart was actually doing something themselves, but you could make the same argument if a person only did something with any other part of themselves. Is your heart, or your hand, or your mind, or any other part of you, really you? And if any part of you does something that Jesus or our Father has counseled you not to do, such as not to commit adultery, are you really committing a sin if a part of you does it?

3) I don’t know when the last time was, but I have heard Church leaders recommend that before. Granted, it was only to express the idea that the problem is serious and that we should do whatever we need to do to solve the problem, but that is how I interpret that counsel from Jesus too. He would much rather you solve the problem without resorting to such drastic measures.

Btw, we’re getting into the realm of sophistry here, and although you might enjoy it, the devil is an even better master of that craft than you are. I recommend that you try to understand the spirit of a message from Jesus and play it as safe as possible.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 5 2004, 11:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Oct 5 2004, 11:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Cal@Oct 4 2004, 05:22 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Oct 4 2004, 03:14 PM

The good news is that people can benefit by hearing from people who make slanderous yet “thought provoking” comments against the doctrine and kingdom of Jesus, as long as people then seek and receive counsel from Jesus to help them understand the truth. 

Jesus allows Lucifer to go on the way he does, after all.

Yet I wonder why people prefer to argue like the devil instead of seeking and trying to persuade people to seek Jesus’ counsel?

And what exactly did Jesus say about either pornography or masterbation?

Did you watch General Conference last weekend? Whether Jesus speaks to us directly or through one of His authorized servants, it is the same. You can also know what He has to about those things by receiving a witness from the Holy Ghost who will testify of Jesus.

And the fact that you may not believe that the things that have been said by His authorized servants are the words of Jesus, or that they were inspired by Him through the power of the Holy Ghost, really doesn’t make any difference. Things that are true are true whether or not you believe in them.

And btw, if you didn't watch General Conference last weekend, you can still find out what was said by getting the next issue of any Church magazine or looking at the main Church website. They should be posted sometime this week.

Who says that the words of Jesus are the same as some man? That is a claim that anyone could make. Doesn't make it so. You can believe it or not, but it is not REALLY the same, unless you are going to claim that GA's and Jesus are the same person. And by the way, just how can they be the same, when GA's have been known to contradict eachother? Does Jesus contradict himself?

[Cal]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 5 2004, 12:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Oct 5 2004, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Cal@Oct 5 2004, 06:36 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Blessed@Oct 4 2004, 07:44 PM

He didn't spell it out, but what he did say was if you look at a woman with lust you have already committed adultery in your heart.  He also said if your hand makes you sin then cut it off.  He also says to stay away from sinful situations, etc.  He didn't have to spell it out... this is clear enough for me.

I'm by no means promoting pornography, but let's get a little analytical: First, is there a difference between "a woman" and a picture of a woman? Second, is committing "adultery in your heart" actually a sin. If so, where did Jesus say it was?

Third, when was the last time a church leader recommended that someone cut their hand off?

1) Yes, there is a difference between a picture of a woman and a woman, but a picture of a woman represents the woman in that picture, and when looking at a picture of a woman most people are thinking about that woman and not the picture.

2) Aside from the statements that have been made from Jesus’ authorized servants, He has also said this on several occasions:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a womn to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. – Matthew 5:28

But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman, to lust after her, hath committed adultery already in his heart. – 3 Nephi 12:28

And verily I say unto you, as I have said before, he that looketh on a woman to lust after her, or if any shall commit adultery in their hearts, they shall not have the Spirit, but shall deny the faith and shall fear. – D&C 63:16

Granted, Jesus did not clarify whether a person who did something in their heart was actually doing something themselves, but you could make the same argument if a person only did something with any other part of themselves. Is your heart, or your hand, or your mind, or any other part of you, really you? And if any part of you does something that Jesus or our Father has counseled you not to do, such as not to commit adultery, are you really committing a sin if a part of you does it?

3) I don’t know when the last time was, but I have heard Church leaders recommend that before. Granted, it was only to express the idea that the problem is serious and that we should do whatever we need to do to solve the problem, but that is how I interpret that counsel from Jesus too. He would much rather you solve the problem without resorting to such drastic measures.

Btw, we’re getting into the realm of sophistry here, and although you might enjoy it, the devil is an even better master of that craft than you are. I recommend that you try to understand the spirit of a message from Jesus and play it as safe as possible.

So you agree that Jesus never said that "committing adultery in your heart" was a sin. You simply chose to make that up yourself; it is an inference you chose to make. Others may chose to let the Jesus make up the rules.

[Ray]

Cal,

You’ve shown the mentality that I once thought of as being typical of a lawyer, before I came to realize that not all lawyers think like you do. I will now let our testimonies speak for themselves while hoping that people will be able to see the truth for themselves.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 5 2004, 04:22 PM

Cal,

You’ve shown the mentality that I once thought of as being typical of a lawyer, before I came to realize that not all lawyers think like you do. I will now let our testimonies speak for themselves while hoping that people will be able to see the truth for themselves.

I'm sorry you find rational thinking objectionable. I'm sure if it bolstered your position you would like it just fine.

[Faerie]

you're right..committing adultry ISN'T a sin..wow!! thanks for clearing that up!

[Ray]

Actually, to be fair to Cal, I believe he is only suggesting that committing adultery in your heart is not a sin. There is supposedly some other way to commit adultery, and even then it may not be a sin. After all, even the 10 commandments do not begin with a preface saying something like: “Each of these 10 commandments that I am about to give are and should be considered a sin, even though I, the Lord God, am not specifically saying so herein.” Leave it to a lawyer to find a loophole somewhere.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 5 2004, 04:31 PM

Actually, to be fair to Cal, I believe he is only suggesting that committing adultery in your heart is not a sin. There is supposedly some other way to commit adultery, and even then it may not be a sin. After all, even the 10 commandments do not begin with a preface saying something like: “Each of these 10 commandments that I am about to give are and should be considered a sin, even though I, the Lord God, am not specifically saying so herein.” Leave it to a lawyer to find a loophole somewhere.

I guess the commandments should have read something like. "thou shall not...." and "don't even think about it".

[Cal]

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 5 2004, 04:31 PM

Actually, to be fair to Cal, I believe he is only suggesting that committing adultery in your heart is not a sin. There is supposedly some other way to commit adultery, and even then it may not be a sin. After all, even the 10 commandments do not begin with a preface saying something like: “Each of these 10 commandments that I am about to give are and should be considered a sin, even though I, the Lord God, am not specifically saying so herein.” Leave it to a lawyer to find a loophole somewhere.

By the way, I'm not saying whether it is or isn't. I'm just suggesting that we let Jesus do the speaking. I've always thought that Jesus has not said what he has not said.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Cal+Oct 5 2004, 04:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Oct 5 2004, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Oct 5 2004, 04:31 PM

Actually, to be fair to Cal, I believe he is only suggesting that committing adultery in your heart is not a sin.  There is supposedly some other way to commit adultery, and even then it may not be a sin.  After all, even the 10 commandments do not begin with a preface saying something like: “Each of these 10 commandments that I am about to give are and should be considered a sin, even though I, the Lord God, am not specifically saying so herein.”  Leave it to a lawyer to find a loophole somewhere.

I guess the commandments should have read something like. "thou shall not...." and "don't even think about it".

Silly me, I thought that Jesus implied that with the phrase “to look upon a woman to lust after her”.

Are you now trying to tell me that I can do that without thinking?

Btw, most of us know that you should concede that you lost this argument - that you are wrong and I am right - but somehow I feel that you would never do that. At least not in so many words.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 5 2004, 05:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Oct 5 2004, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Cal@Oct 5 2004, 04:56 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Oct 5 2004, 04:31 PM

Actually, to be fair to Cal, I believe he is only suggesting that committing adultery in your heart is not a sin.  There is supposedly some other way to commit adultery, and even then it may not be a sin.  After all, even the 10 commandments do not begin with a preface saying something like: “Each of these 10 commandments that I am about to give are and should be considered a sin, even though I, the Lord God, am not specifically saying so herein.”  Leave it to a lawyer to find a loophole somewhere.

I guess the commandments should have read something like. "thou shall not...." and "don't even think about it".

Silly me, I thought that Jesus implied that with the phrase “to look upon a woman to lust after her”.

Are you now trying to tell me that I can do that without thinking?

Btw, most of us know that you should concede that you lost this argument - that you are wrong and I am right - but somehow I feel that you would never do that. At least not in so many words.

Just how have I done that. You are telling me that something is a sin, which only you have said so. You have already admitted that Jesus didn't. I figure that if Jesus wants to call something a sin, he is going to spell it out clearly, not just leave it up to everyone to make up their own rule.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Cal+Oct 5 2004, 05:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Oct 5 2004, 05:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Ray@Oct 5 2004, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by -Cal@Oct 5 2004, 04:56 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Oct 5 2004, 04:31 PM

Actually, to be fair to Cal, I believe he is only suggesting that committing adultery in your heart is not a sin.  There is supposedly some other way to commit adultery, and even then it may not be a sin.  After all, even the 10 commandments do not begin with a preface saying something like: “Each of these 10 commandments that I am about to give are and should be considered a sin, even though I, the Lord God, am not specifically saying so herein.”  Leave it to a lawyer to find a loophole somewhere.

I guess the commandments should have read something like. "thou shall not...." and "don't even think about it".

Silly me, I thought that Jesus implied that with the phrase “to look upon a woman to lust after her”.

Are you now trying to tell me that I can do that without thinking?

Btw, most of us know that you should concede that you lost this argument - that you are wrong and I am right - but somehow I feel that you would never do that. At least not in so many words.

Just how have I done that. You are telling me that something is a sin, which only you have said so. You have already admitted that Jesus didn't. I figure that if Jesus wants to call something a sin, he is going to spell it out clearly, not just leave it up to everyone to make up their own rule.

Although I have tried, I believe that I cannot help you see the light. For that, you will need to ask God to help you. I can, however, sum up the facts in this argument for you.

1) One of the 10 commandments is that I should not commit adultery.

2) Jesus (aka Jehovah) is the person who gave me those 10 commandments.

I say “I” and “me” above because I have been adopted into the house of Israel, to whom Jesus gave those commandments.

I believe these commandments also apply to you, Cal, because you have stated that you served a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and, as I understand it, missionaries now receive their patriarchal blessings at some point before they serve a mission, at which point they are told that they have been adopted into the house of Israel, which then makes them eligible to receive all of the blessings that are reserved for the house of Israel, such blessings being contingent upon obedience to the commandments.

If for some reason you have not received your patriarchal blessing yet, these commandments will apply to you as soon as you receive your patriarchal blessing, if you ever do.

3) Jesus later expounded upon this commandments by stating that if I should “look upon a woman to lust after her”, I have committed adultery with her already in my heart.

If you’d like to read what He said in context, I’ll spell it out for you:

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:  But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.  And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.  And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell - Matthew 5:27-30

You have suggested that Jesus did not say that it would be a sin for me to commit adultery with a woman in my heart, but I believe that your argument goes against the facts as stated above.

At some point in time it will be perfectly clear to you what Jesus has to say about all of this, and I have confidence that most people reading this thread can already predict what the verdict will be.

[Matt]

But if you commit adultery in your heart, and that is as bad as committing adultery in the flesh, surely then the logic of that is to say: "Well, might as well go the whole hog and really commit adultery!

I mean... that can't be right? Can it?

Surely, if one commits adultery in the heart, but rejects the acctual consumation of that adultery as a sin, then... isn't that a good thing? Or not?

[Franken]

C'mon people. Just use common sense. Just because "Jesus" didn't say it out right, or it's not clearly defined within the scriptures (Which is doubtful), think about it. Is adultery a good thing... hm... uh no? C'mon!

I think most of us here are educated people and can determine the logistics of what right and wrong is on our own.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Matt@ Oct 6 2004, 03:20 PM

But if you commit adultery in your heart, and that is as bad as committing adultery in the flesh, surely then the logic of that is to say: "Well, might as well go the whole hog and really commit adultery!

I mean... that can't be right? Can it? 

I believe you’re logic is leading you to think that since people are accountable for their thoughts as well as their actions, they might as well put their thoughts into action since they are going to get in trouble anyway. Basically, I believe you’d only be compounding your problems.

Surely, if one commits adultery in the heart, but rejects the actual consummation of that adultery as a sin, then... isn't that a good thing? Or not? 

I believe there are certain degrees of sin and that we will be held accountable to the degree that we commit a sin. For instance, I believe that committing adultery in your heart is not as serious as committing adultery with your whole body, but committing adultery in your heart is still committing adultery.

I also believe that we will be held accountable for the number of times we commit a sin. For instance, committing adultery once is not as bad as committing adultery multiple times, yet it is still bad to commit adultery even once.

And btw, if during the course of your life you have ever committed adultery, all hope is not lost. Jesus loves us and He will forgive us, as long as we totally and sincerely repent. We should also realize that God will not be mocked, so don’t think you can do bad things for a long time with the idea that you will repent later. Once you start doing something it can be very hard to stop, and even then you will have memories of the sins you have committed in the past.

Personally, I believe memories of sins we have committed remain with us to serve as a reminder not to ever commit the same mistakes again, and even though I have some memories that I can’t wait to get rid of, I am thankful that I have finally learned some lessons.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Franken@Oct 6 2004, 03:25 PM

C'mon people. Just use common sense. Just because "Jesus" didn't say it out right, or it's not clearly defined within the scriptures (Which is doubtful), think about it. Is adultery a good thing... hm... uh no? C'mon!

I think most of us here are educated people and can determine the logistics of what right and wrong is on our own.

I also think that is true, yet some people do seem to need some things spelled out for them.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 6 2004, 03:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Oct 6 2004, 03:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Matt@ Oct 6 2004, 03:20 PM

But if you commit adultery in your heart, and that is as bad as committing adultery in the flesh, surely then the logic of that is to say: "Well, might as well go the whole hog and really commit adultery!

I mean... that can't be right? Can it?  

I believe you’re logic is leading you to think that since people are accountable for their thoughts as well as their actions, they might as well put their thoughts into action since they are going to get in trouble anyway. Basically, I believe you’d only be compounding your problems.

Surely, if one commits adultery in the heart, but rejects the actual consummation of that adultery as a sin, then... isn't that a good thing? Or not?  

I believe there are certain degrees of sin and that we will be held accountable to the degree that we commit a sin. For instance, I believe that committing adultery in your heart is not as serious as committing adultery with your whole body, but committing adultery in your heart is still committing adultery.

I also believe that we will be held accountable for the number of times we commit a sin. For instance, committing adultery once is not as bad as committing adultery multiple times, yet it is still bad to commit adultery even once.

And btw, if during the course of your life you have ever committed adultery, all hope is not lost. Jesus loves us and He will forgive us, as long as we totally and sincerely repent. We should also realize that God will not be mocked, so don’t think you can do bad things for a long time with the idea that you will repent later. Once you start doing something it can be very hard to stop, and even then you will have memories of the sins you have committed in the past.

Personally, I believe memories of sins we have committed remain with us to serve as a reminder not to ever commit the same mistakes again, and even though I have some memories that I can’t wait to get rid of, I am thankful that I have finally learned some lessons.

So, Ray, let me make sure I understand you; you think that committing the bad act is a sin AND that even thinking about it is ALSO a sin.

Are they the same level of sin? Is the thought the same as the act? If not, how much lower on the scale IS the thought? How much lesser of a sin is it?

[Ray]

Originally posted by Cal@ Oct 6 2004, 04:34 PM

So, Ray, let me make sure I understand you; you think that committing the bad act is a sin AND that even thinking about it is ALSO a sin.

Are they the same level of sin? Is the thought the same as the act? If not, how much lower on the scale IS the thought? How much lesser of a sin is it?

See what I mean, Franken?

you think that committing the bad act is a sin…?

Yes

[you think]…that even thinking about it is ALSO a sin.

Yes, with the understanding that “thinking about it” is an act and that we will be judged for our actions. We can’t always keep a thought from entering our minds, but we can choose not to think about it.

Are they the same level of sin?

I have already said that they are not.

Is the thought the same as the act?

When you say "act" I am thinking that you are referring to the act of involving your whole body and soul in the process, and I have already said that that act is not the same as the act of thinking about it.

If not, how much lower on the scale IS the thought?

I don’t know how much lower, but I do know that it’s not low enough to keep it from being a sin.

How much lesser of a sin is it?

Again, I don’t know, but I do know that it is still a sin.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 6 2004, 04:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Oct 6 2004, 04:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@ Oct 6 2004, 04:34 PM

So, Ray, let me make sure I understand you; you think that committing the bad act is a sin AND that even thinking about it is ALSO a sin.

Are they the same level of sin? Is the thought the same as the act? If not, how much lower on the scale IS the thought? How much lesser of a sin is it?

See what I mean, Franken?

you think that committing the bad act is a sin…?

Yes

[you think]…that even thinking about it is ALSO a sin.

Yes, with the understanding that “thinking about it” is an act and that we will be judged for our actions. We can’t always keep a thought from entering our minds, but we can choose not to think about it.

Are they the same level of sin?

I have already said that they are not.

Is the thought the same as the act?

When you say "act" I am thinking that you are referring to the act of involving your whole body and soul in the process, and I have already said that that act is not the same as the act of thinking about it.

If not, how much lower on the scale IS the thought?

I don’t know how much lower, but I do not that it’s not low enough to keep it from being a sin.

How much lesser of a sin is it?

Again, I don’t know, but I do know that it is still a sin.

OK, so what you know, you know. And what you don't know, you still know. Interesting. :)

[Ray]

I believe the college I attended still offers that Philosophy class on reasoning.

Perhaps there is also a class like that where you live.

[Blessed]

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 6 2004, 04:42 PM

Personally, I believe memories of sins we have committed remain with us to serve as a reminder not to ever commit the same mistakes again, and even though I have some memories that I can’t wait to get rid of, I am thankful that I have finally learned some lessons.

Oh I wish that wasn't the case, but it does seem we are all meant to have a thorn.

[Cal]

Ray--so that you don't think that I support porn or anything like it, I DO think that is it a sin to hurt the ones we love, needlessly and negligently. Clearly, porn hurts marriages and creates mistrust and suspicion.

However, let me give you my definition of sin: Any human behavior that either by gross negligence or intentionally, either emotionally or physically, injures another without justification. Notice that my definition does not require that the action be forbidden by somebody's God.

In my opinion, the women (and men where it applies) are completely justified in being upset and offended at the use of porn by their spouse. Marriage is too sacred to toy with that way. Clearly, porn emotionally injures the affected spouse.And yes, I do think use of porn is a sin.

[Franken]

Originally posted by Blessed+Oct 7 2004, 12:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Blessed @ Oct 7 2004, 12:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Oct 6 2004, 04:42 PM

Personally, I believe memories of sins we have committed remain with us to serve as a reminder not to ever commit the same mistakes again, and even though I have some memories that I can’t wait to get rid of, I am thankful that I have finally learned some lessons.

Oh I wish that wasn't the case, but it does seem we are all meant to have a thorn.

That makes me think of the analogy that all of us, are like Roses.

Created so beautifully, yet covered with thorns. A Rose wouldn't grow without the thorns, which also protect it. So you would say, how can our sins protect us? Well, by like what you said, they are reminders of what should not be done ever again.

A rose without thorns, doesn't stand a chance in this world.

[Matt]

I do recall that the only problem in a marriage regarding hardcore pornography was way back before Internet porn.

The husband hated the stuff. Couldn't stand for it to be in the house, even, or so he said. But he used to have to buy some hardcore porn magazines and videos, all the same.

Why? Because his wife absolutely loved the stuff, but was not "brave" enough to go to a porn shop and buy it herself.

And that's a true story. Mind you, the marriage did, eventually, break up. That was caused by her finding out that he was gay.