"w" And The Presidential Debate

[Guest JLHyde]

Dang, "W". You give good credence to that old moniker "[A] hick from the stix".

Question: What's better than a cowboy rounding up cows?

Answer: One whose diction never gets beyond that of the sixth-grade.

(This is not my observsation but that of polsters.)

The only question I really have for George "W" is this: if you are such a strong leader, why do you speak with a Texas twang and none of the rest of your family do? (Are you, Sir George, that hen-pecked?)

[Dravin]

He did live in Texas for a while there, and while he could eliminate his twang, the problem with that is his whole just a regular Texan dude persona.

Most people don't want some cold aloof genius in office, they want somebody who they can think, “Hey, he's just like me, he understands my problems, even if it's just on a subconscious level.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

OK, so Bush got tongue-tied. Runs in the family, although Jeb must have had some speech therapy.

At least he didn't refer to visiting KGB headquarters under "Treblinka Square" in Moscow.

It's Lubyanka Square, Senator. Treblinka was a Nazi death camp in Poland.

[Faerie]

As a southerner I'm a bit offended at your characterization of the President based on his accent and demeanor. I LOVE that he doesn't try and fake his personality. I do recall Clinton having a bit of a "twang" being from Louisiana...

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Faerie@Oct 1 2004, 01:03 PM

I do recall Clinton having a bit of a "twang" being from Louisiana...

Looziana, Arkansaw, what's the difference?

[Cal]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck+Oct 1 2004, 03:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheProudDuck @ Oct 1 2004, 03:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Faerie@Oct 1 2004, 01:03 PM

I do recall Clinton having a bit of a "twang" being from Louisiana...

Looziana, Arkansaw, what's the difference?

Actually, I think you have to cut Bush, Jr. some slack on this one. I do believe he grew up in Texas--Midland, wasn't it? His dad was from New England, if I remember correctly. Nothing wrong with maintaining the accent you grew up with.

[Matt]

G W Bush s just like Harold Wilson, British Prime Minister of some years ago. He was an Oxford Don who had been born in the North of England. He spoke with an Oxford university accent. Except when he was on the hustings or making a speach to trade unionists. Then he'd "forget" his Oxford accent and really crank up a North Country accent, to appear to be "a man of the people."

[Faerie]

oh my bad, didn't mean to insult louisiana like that ROFL!

[Faerie]

Originally posted by Matt@Oct 2 2004, 06:17 PM

G W Bush s just like Harold Wilson, British Prime Minister of some years ago. He was an Oxford Don who had been born in the North of England. He spoke with an Oxford university accent. Except when he was on the hustings or making a speach to trade unionists. Then he'd "forget" his Oxford accent and really crank up a North Country accent, to appear to be "a man of the people."

matt i've lived in the south my entire life...when i am around certain people my accent is stronger, sometimes even exaggerated and i do not notice it...it happens :)

[Cal]

It isn't the accent that makes Bush, Jr's look myopic. It is the content.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Cal@Oct 3 2004, 08:29 AM

It isn't the accent that makes Bush, Jr's look myopic. It is the content.

I thought Bush could have done a lot better in the debates (an understatement -- I was yelling at the TV screen, pleading for Bush to clobber some of the obvious softballs Kerry was serving up just begging to be whacked).

But I thought Bush did make two solid points.

The first was his pointing out that Kerry's "plan" for success in Iraq depends largely on involving "allies" who've already made it eminently clear they're not going to get involved, not aujourd'hui, not demain -- and that if Kerry thinks that Iraq is a mistake, a diversion, the wrong war at the wrong time, they're even less likely to do so. What's he going to say? "Jacques, Gerhard -- This Iraq war is a mistake that we never should have gotten involved with. You guys take over."

The second point was Bush's handling of the Korea question. I thought Bush made a solid case for continuing the adminstration's multilateral approach to negotiating with the North Koreans, pointing out that it would be a mistake to pursue a unilateral approach that left China, with its huge influence over the Norks, out of the equation. Kerry came across looking a little foolish (when asked if he favored bilateral or multilateral talks, he answered, predictably, "Both" -- despite that it would be obvious to everyone that the bilateral talks would predominate, and render the multilateral ones irrelevant). It also looked like Kerry is just setting himself up as a mirror image of Bush -- that is, whatever Bush is for, Kerry's against. If Bush acts unilaterally, Kerry wants him to act multilaterally. If Bush acts multilaterally, he wants him to act bilaterally.

And I couldn't believe when Kerry actually proposed giving Iran nuclear fuel as a bribe not to develop nuclear weapons. (Nor could I believe that Bush didn't call him on it. He is such a crappy debater!) That's exactly the approach the Clinton administration took with North Korea in 1994 (when Madeleine Albright gave Kim Jong-Il a big hug -- seriously) -- whereupon the North Koreans, like all good totalitarians, took the bribe and went ahead and developed the weapons anyway.

I really would like to live in John Kerry's fantasy world, where people like the North Korean Stalinists and the Iranian mullahs could be trusted, where allies disregard their own interests to help you out, where the UN actually manages to solve conflicts instead of talking about and perpetuating them, and where putting a stop to terrorism is merely a law-enforcement matter. But I don't have that luxury.

[helgaboy]

Bush completely failed at the debate (which is no surprise as he has failed these past four years). He seemed almost like the American people owed it to him to keep him in the white house. I belive John Kerrys plan to reunite the allies will work as he will show them there is light at the end of tunnel and we will have a plan to get out of there. With Bush they were putting their troops in there indefinately and Bush had turned the place into a three ring circus.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Holyboy,

I belive John Kerrys plan to reunite the allies will work as he will show them there is light at the end of tunnel and we will have a plan to get out of there.

I seem to have missed the "plan." Explain.

[helgaboy]

His plan is to get our allies in there and do a mega push and begin pulling troops out within 6 months

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by helgaboy@Oct 4 2004, 01:10 PM

His plan is to get our allies in there and do a mega push and begin pulling troops out within 6 months

Ah, but the "allies" have already told him "no thanks." They've said they won't go in, no matter who's in charge.

When you're making rabbit stew, step 1 is catching your rabbit. Without that, it doesn't matter how good the rest of your plan is. Since France and Germany (the only "allies" Kerry seems to think matter, which has cheesed the Polish PM off immensely) have already taken a pass, Kerry's "plan" is dead on arrival.

And letting it slip that you have a 6-month timetable for getting out gives the opposition every incentive to prolong the conflict, knowing that you've committed your political fortunes to making good on that timetable. Kerry would face overwhelming pressure to get out in 6, regardless of whether the job was done. Kerry may have been a a halfway-decent tactician as a lieutenant junior grade boat skipper, but strategically, he's way over his head.

As for the "mega push," watch the Sunni Triangle in the next week or so.

[helgaboy]

Well I said we would start pulling out in 6 months not be pulled out completely. I belive Kerry is more likely to get our allies back with us than bush. oh and here are some more of the "wonderful" things bush has done for America

Bush has emptied the Social Security Trust Fund by $507 billion while slashing Social Security benefits.

He has cut Medicare by 17%.

He has reduced veterans benefits & military pay.

Eliminated overtime pay for millions.

Oil prices have risen over 50%.

He gave tax advantages to businesses that outsouce jobs overseas.

He gave away billions of tax payers money in government contracts without competitive bids.

He turned a budget surplus into the largest deficit in U.S. history

[john doe]

Originally posted by helgaboy@Oct 4 2004, 04:27 PM

Well I said we would start pulling out in 6 months not be pulled out completely. I belive Kerry is more likely to get our allies back with us than bush. oh and here are some more of the "wonderful" things bush has done for America

Bush has emptied the Social Security Trust Fund by $507 billion while slashing Social Security benefits.

He has cut Medicare by 17%.

He has reduced veterans benefits & military pay.

Eliminated overtime pay for millions.

Oil prices have risen over 50%.

He gave tax advantages to businesses that outsouce jobs overseas.

He gave away billions of tax payers money in government contracts without competitive bids.

He turned a budget surplus into the largest deficit in U.S. history

George Bush did all those things all by himself? Hmmmmm, he's more powerful than we all thought. Apparently congress doesn't exist anymore, it's just George bush running the whole show now. News to me.

[helgaboy]

George Bush did all those things all by himself? Hmmmmm, he's more powerful than we all thought. Apparently congress doesn't exist anymore, it's just George bush running the whole show now. News to me.

Well somebody had to of signed off on those perhaps Laura did?

[Cal]

Originally posted by john doe+Oct 4 2004, 03:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (john doe @ Oct 4 2004, 03:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--helgaboy@Oct 4 2004, 04:27 PM

Well I said we would start pulling out in 6 months not be pulled out completely. I belive Kerry is more likely to get our allies back with us than bush. oh and here are some more of the "wonderful" things bush has done for America

Bush has emptied the Social Security Trust Fund by $507 billion while slashing Social Security benefits.

He has cut Medicare by 17%.

He has reduced veterans benefits & military pay.

Eliminated overtime pay for millions.

Oil prices have risen over 50%.

He gave tax advantages to businesses that outsouce jobs overseas.

He gave away billions of tax payers money in government contracts without competitive bids.

He turned a budget surplus into the largest deficit in U.S. history

George Bush did all those things all by himself? Hmmmmm, he's more powerful than we all thought. Apparently congress doesn't exist anymore, it's just George bush running the whole show now. News to me.

Well Doe boy, if that crap had happened under Clinton, I have no doubt at all that you would be blaming it totally on him. Where does the buck stop? Bush gets credit for making us safe from terrorism (NOT), but is an innocent bystander in the rest?

[Guest TheProudDuck]

...while slashing Social Security benefits.

Pure partisan ignorance. Social Security benefits haven't been cut at all.

He has cut Medicare by 17%.

Wrong. Hasn't happened. Medicare premiums will increase by 17% next year, or about $11 per month. The increase is mandated by the Medicare statute, and the Bush administration has nothing to do with it.

He gave tax advantages to businesses that outsouce jobs overseas.

Nope. The "tax advantage for outsourcing" has existed for decades.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=225

I'd like to see Helgaboy back up the majority of those claims. (He may have a point on one or two -- like oil prices, although that includes blaming Bush for Gulf hurricanes, which he probably does.)

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Cal@Oct 4 2004, 05:20 PM

Where does the buck stop?

I believe that the buck stops with Harry S. Truman.

[Snow]

Originally posted by helgaboy@Oct 4 2004, 01:10 PM

His plan is to get our allies in there and do a mega push and begin pulling troops out within 6 months

That is the weakest part of the entire Kerry Campaign. I was a mild Kerry fan up until he beat this one into the ground...

How to solve the Iraq problem:

-Get other nations involved.

and how do you do that?

-Talk to them.

and if that doesn't work?

-Talk to them again.

Kerry maintains that "jawboning" is the key. If we only say the right words, in the right combination, in the right tone of voice, with the sun glinting off our brow - just so - then France and Germany and Mexico will join us. It was then that despite his pedantic dronning, it dawned on me... Kerry is just another liberal lightweight.

[john doe]

Well Doe boy, if that crap had happened under Clinton, I have no doubt at all that you would be blaming it totally on him

No, I blame Clinton for other things. What surprises me today is that you and your buddies are slamming George Bush, claiming he is a draft dodger for joining an arm of the US military, yet you ignore the fact that Clinton blatantly was a draft dodger, and hold him up as a hero of your cause.

And please, don't try to be patronizing by calling me a boy. I haven't resorted to calling you names, please return the favor.

[Faerie]

I heard on "The Factor" tonight the funniest thing. Someone in the Kerry camp was conversing w/ Schroeder and told him that if Kerry was elected President, his first guests at the White House would be Mr. Schroeder and Mr. Chirac from France.

Schroeder's response?

"I was afraid you'd say that"

ROFLMAO

[Cal]

Originally posted by john doe@Oct 4 2004, 08:37 PM

Well Doe boy, if that crap had happened under Clinton, I have no doubt at all that you would be blaming it totally on him

No, I blame Clinton for other things. What surprises me today is that you and your buddies are slamming George Bush, claiming he is a draft dodger for joining an arm of the US military, yet you ignore the fact that Clinton blatantly was a draft dodger, and hold him up as a hero of your cause.

And please, don't try to be patronizing by calling me a boy. I haven't resorted to calling you names, please return the favor.

Point well taken on the "boy" comment. I apologize.

As to joining the crowd against Bush on the draft or military service issue---have you heard me say anything bad about Bush on THAT issue? Yes, I have defended Kerry's war record, but have I slammed Bush's? I think I have said that I really don't think that either one's record is much of an issue, and believe that other issues are much more important.

As to draft "dodging", I don't recall Clinton doing anything illegal to avoid the draft. I think he went to England to study as he was quite a scholar. It is no secret that he did not support the Vietnam war, as many of us didn't. Why is it a sin to avoid fighting a war you don't believe in? I had a student deferment and avoided it too. And am still glad I did. It was a useless, senseless cause that the american people were led to support on the basis of lies and misrepresentations. Sound familiar?