freemasonry and mormons

[maria1981]

hi i got this from wikki

The relationship between Freemasonry and the Latter Day Saint movement began early in the history of Mormonism. Joseph Smith, Jr. and several of the Church founders were Freemasons, and were founding members of a lodge in Nauvoo, Illinois in March 1842.[1] There are some similarities between Mormon temple worship and symbolism and the stories and symbols of Freemasonry, though there are also many unique aspects to both that are also worth considering.[citation needed] In modern times, the LDS Church holds no position for or against the compatibility of Masonry with LDS doctrine.[citation needed]

While a number of early Church members, such as Heber C. Kimball, were Masons prior to becoming Mormons, Joseph Smith Jr. and the Latter Day Saint movement had no formal relationship with Freemasonry. In the early 1840s a Masonic Lodge was formed by members who were Freemasons. Joseph Smith, Jr. and his brother Hyrum became members of the newly formed Nauvoo lodge. It appears that John C. Bennett had a particularly strong influence in the spread of Freemasonry. LDS historian Reed Durham writes:

"By 1840, John Cook Bennett, a former active leader in Masonry had arrived in Commerce and rapidly exerted his persuasive leadership in all facets of the Church, including Mormon Masonry. ... Joseph and Sidney [Rigdon] were inducted into formal Masonry ... on the same day..." ("Is There No Help for the Widow's Son?" by Dr. Reed C. Durham, Jr., as printed in "Joseph Smith and Masonry: No Help for the Widow's Son", Martin Pub. Co., Nauvoo, Ill., 1980, p. 17.)

In 1842 Smith became a Master Mason, as indicated by his journal entries:

Tuesday, [March] 15. — I officiated as grand chaplain at the installation of the Nauvoo Lodge of Free Masons, at the Grove near the Temple. Grand Master Jonas, of Columbus, being present, a large number of people assembled on the occasion. The day was exceedingly fine; all things were done in order, and universal satisfaction was manifested. In the evening I received the first degree in Freemasonry in the Nauvoo Lodge, assembled in my general business office. (History of the Church, by Joseph Smith, Deseret Book, 1978, Vol.4, Ch.32, p.550-1)

Wednesday, March 16. — I was with the Masonic Lodge and rose to the sublime degree. (History of the Church, Vol.4, Ch.32, p.552)

In The Mormon Church and Freemasonry (2001), Terry Chateau writes:

[The Joseph Smith family] was a Masonic family which lived by and practiced the estimable and admirable tenets of Freemasonry. The father, Joseph Smith, Sr., was a documented member in upstate New York. He was raised to the degree of Master Mason on May 7, 1818 in Ontario Lodge No. 23 of Canandaigua, New York. An older son, Hyrum Smith, was a member of Mount Moriah Lodge No. 112, Palmyra New York.

On May 4, 1842, just a couple of months after his initiation to Freemasonry, Smith instructed other LDS Church leaders "in the principles of and order of the Priesthood, attending to washings, anointings, endowments, and the communication of keys pertaining to the Aaronic Priesthood, and so onto to the highest order of the Melchizedek Priesthood...." (History of the Church, vol. 5, pg. 1, May 4, 1842).

Mormon temple worship does share some common symbols, signs, and clothing with Freemasonry, although a few of the similarities have been eliminated from temple ceremonies in recent years.[citation needed] It is not necessarily the case that these shared symbols represent similar ideas or are interchangeable with each other. Greg Kearney, LDS member and Mason, argues that Joseph Smith initially borrowed from the Masonic ritual in order to teach the temple endowment, presumably because so many people of the time and area were Masons.[2] Thus, aspects of the ritual can be considered distinct from the temple endowment, which has in later years shed some of the Masonic symbolism, as it is not as relevant to today's audience.

When Smith was killed in 1844, it was recorded that he raised his hands in the air and proclaimed, "Oh Lord my God" before he was shot.[3] This phrase could be the beginning of an appeal to God or it could be the beginning words of a Masonic line that is to be used as an emergency call for help ("Oh, Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow's son?").[citation needed]

[edit] Differences

There are numerous physical differences between the Masonic temple practices and those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Unlike Freemasonry, ordinances such as baptisms for the deceased and eternal marriage are also performed in LDS temples.

The symbolic significance of traditional Masonic rituals are not characteristic of LDS ceremonies, in which Christian symbolism is central to worship.

The goals of Masonry and the LDS endowment are not the same. In the view of the LDS Church, both teach important truths, but the truths they teach are different. Masonry is not regarded as a religion; though it is by other religious groups such as the Catholic Church. The temple endowment, on the other hand, teaches of man's relationship to God in LDS Church belief, and Latter-day Saints consider it to be essential for exaltation in the world to come.[4]

[edit] Modern Official LDS Church policy

From 1925 to 1984 the Masonic Fraternity in Utah prohibited Latter-day Saints from joining, but Freemasons opened membership to Mormons worldwide. In 1984 the Grand Lodge of Utah officially dropped its anti-Mormon position and allowed LDS church members to join. Today there is no formal obstacle preventing Mormons from becoming Freemasons.

The presidency of the LDS Church has not made an official statement as to whether or not Freemasonry is compatible with Mormonism. However Don LeFevre, a past spokesman for the church has said the church "...strongly advises its members not to affiliate with organizations that are secret, oath-bound, or would cause them to lose interest in church activities."[5] There are a number of LDS Masons in Utah who serve in various leadership positions, including the current Grand Master of Masons of Utah,[6] without comment by Church leaders.

sorry but the more i look in to this the more i wont to run away

someone realy know the true foundation of the lds church!!!!!

im confussed

today for me has been a day of realization

i have only been a member for a short while and every single mormon i have meet has been ever so nice and lovely

but 2 things today have made me very sadly wont to leave and stay away

1: is freemason and the beging of LDS church

2:is if we are god and follow true we will become gods

i belive free mason is not of god infact the oposite

and the thought of being so vain to belive that i will become a god if im good and follow this is just the opposite from any faith at all infact they say god was on the earth BEFORE MAN AND NO MAN SAW GOD gods words in all his good books just not mormon

NO MAN CAN EVER BE GOD told by gods son himself in the bible

today i feel sad to have learnt about this as until now i was happy and ready to go to the temple

now im not happy at all and i do not feel any of the above is right teachings of god

if someone could please correct me please restrore my faith in mormon

tell me that beliveing in being a god one day is a lie i would be very happy and that the foundation of the LDS church is not based on a freemosic faith then i would be happy

masonic satanic see the difference

they say the devil tricks us dont they

[BenRaines]

Please share with me the verses that support your positions of:

1. Vain to think that if we are good we can become like God.

The verses I read say that Christ said "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." Sounds like we are commanded to become like God. I don't think we are given commandments to do things that we can't. Would not be a fair God to do that.

2. No one that I know believes that God lived on this earth. Where do you read this?

3. Your own reference says that Joseph Smith joined the Masons after he organized the LDS church. From there how do you get that church was organized based on Mason beliefs? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I am not sure how recent your joining the church was, you said recently. The first three years after I joined the church were spent reading the Book of Mormon, Old and New Testament, History of the Church, Jesus the Christ, Articles of Faith. It is there that I gained more knowledge about the LDS church and its beginnings. With these readings I was able to build on my beliefs and knowledge about the LDS church and Jesus Christ.

I would encourage you to seek Jesus Christ and not a reason to not believe. Good lck in your search.

Ben Raines

[maria1981]

Please share with me the verses that support your positions of:

1. Vain to think that if we are good we can become like God.

The verses I read say that Christ said "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." Sounds like we are commanded to become like God. I don't think we are given commandments to do things that we can't. Would not be a fair God to do that.

2. No one that I know believes that God lived on this earth. Where do you read this?

3. Your own reference says that Joseph Smith joined the Masons after he organized the LDS church. From there how do you get that church was organized based on Mason beliefs? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I am not sure how recent your joining the church was, you said recently. The first three years after I joined the church were spent reading the Book of Mormon, Old and New Testament, History of the Church, Jesus the Christ, Articles of Faith. It is there that I gained more knowledge about the LDS church and its beginnings. With these readings I was able to build on my beliefs and knowledge about the LDS church and Jesus Christ.

I would encourage you to seek Jesus Christ and not a reason to not believe. Good lck in your search.

Ben Raines

thanks i dont wont to upset some who has way more muscle than myself:) or anyone else at at that matter im just trying to find truth for my own self which is why im on this site and why i have asked so meny questions all my life not just today i have the up most respect for everyone and im just trying to learn

i also cant spell so bare with me

i read this stuff on wiki

right now im looking in to mormon faith one of witch i have found to be drawn too and found it quite comforting for myself at the moment im a christian

i have been searching my whole life for the right faith for me i have been a chalic and christain and looked in to muslim faith an hindo too as one of my friends turned

my family are a mix of jewish catholic and christain also my nan on my dads side belongs to a spritulist church

i have had a grate learning of most faiths and yes u are right u learn more and more once u jion a faith this is true

but before i say my church is true i do need some sort of foundation of this im not going to jump in to something im not sure about

i never wonted to come across this stuff and question this but if u dont ask then u dont know the truth do u!!!!

if a mad man came to my house one day and told me his god is the one belive whot i say then i said yes alright i belive that would be wrong of me after all there are a lot of different faiths out thier to get messed up and miss guide in

if a founder of a faith belonged to a witch worshipping satanic group would u belive whot he says as true??????

im confussed in the fact that weather or not he was a mason befoer or after he was still a masan witch is not of god the fact that it may have been after is worse dont u think

after an angel came to guide him and bless him then he turns to masanic belife slightly odd

this is just some of the stuff i have read today i wasnt in anyway trying to find a reson to walk away infact i had follen so in love with the idea of mormon belifes i was even going to go to the temple i have not so far way from my home i even has a cupple of missionerys come to my home every week

everyone i spoke to except me for me and eveyone is always nice with out any hang ups at all no one tells me i will go to hell if i dont belive so far my exprienace has been an amazing one

so to come across on this website lds.net

jhon who has posted about his resons for leaving and about becoming a god and he dosnt wont that responiblity amoungest a lot of other resons for leaving the church

that realy put me back in my seat

i couldnt belive whot i wa sreading why dos he belive that if its not in the book of mormon and yes it is vain sorry to say not something i would ever belive myself

"God: Creator And Ruler Of Many Worlds. -- While it is true that evolutionists may be divided between theistic and atheistic groups, yet most of those professing belief in God consider him to be an indefinable force, essence, or power of an incomprehensible nature. According to revelation, however, he is a personal Being, a holy and exalted Man, a glorified, resurrected Personage having a tangible body of flesh and bones, an anthropomorphic Entity, the personal Father of the spirits of all men. (D. & C. 130:22- 23; Moses 6:51, 57; Abra. 3:22-24; Jos. Smith 2:16-19.)"

"We are members of the family of the Eternal Father. He is a glorified and exalted and eternal Being, having a resurrected body of flesh and bones. His name is God, and the kind of life he lives is God's life. His name is also Eternal, and the name of the kind of life he lives is eternal life. Eternal life is God's life, and God's life is eternal life. We are commanded to be perfect as he is perfect and to advance and progress until we become like him, or in other words, until we gain eternal life. Thus Joseph Smith said, "You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power." (Teachings, pp. 346-47.) Christ our Lord has so obtained, thus enabling him to say to the faithful: "Ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father." (3 Ne. 28:10.)" (LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, Vol.1, p.23 - p.24, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

"I will prove that the world is wrong, by showing what God is. I am going to inquire after God; for I want you all to know Him, and to be familiar with Him; and if I am bringing you to a knowledge of Him, all persecutions against me ought to cease. You will then know that I am His servant; for I speak as one having authority. ... "I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth. for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why He interferes with the affairs of man. ... "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible,--I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form--like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another. ... "In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. ... "These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible. ... "I wish I was in a suitable place to tell it, and that I had the trump of an archangel, so that I could tell the story in such a manner that persecution would cease forever. What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power--to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious--in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not trifling with you or me." (LDS President Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol.6, Ch.14, p.305-6, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

the bit about being a god

"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement -- a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be.'" (LDS Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, Ch.24, p.430 - p.431, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

" 'It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God,' the inspired word continues, 'and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did.' The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same." (LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p.64, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

This is plain and simple heresy. Nowhere does the Bible say or imply that God was ever a man, or that man can become God! Malachi 3:6 says, 'For I am the LORD, I change not...' How could this be true if God was once a man? Genesis 1:1 states that God existed 'in the beginning' before man was ever created. John 4:24 states that God is a 'spirit,' and Jesus tells us in John 1:18 that no man has seen God at any time. Numbers 23:19 says that 'God is not a man that he should lie; neither the son of man that he should repent.' God has always been God, and no one has ever 'become' God."

a few of the things u asked me for

i do have a copy of the book of morman witch im reading in my quit moments and i do love it and respect it i take it on brad to after all i am a beginner a learner with so much to ask u and to learn so dont be upset with me just teach me after all faith dosnt come over night its as hard work as everyday life chalenges

[abqfriend]

As a Catholic, I am forbidden to be a member of the freemasons-it is that simple.

Canon Law of my church forbids it -clearly.

My church views each totally imcompatible with the other.

Catholic Answers

"The Church has imposed the penalty of excommunication on Catholics who become Freemasons. The penalty of excommunication for joining the Masonic Lodge was explicit in the 1917 code of canon law (canon 2335), and it is implicit in the 1983 code (canon 1374)."

I do not know the relationship between LDS and Freemasons, but in the Catholic church-the statement is clear-Freemasony is totally incompatible with Catholicism.

-Carol

[Elgama]

I have ancestors that were part of the Knights of St Columba though - I know growing up it was described to me as Masons for Roman Catholic's. I don't know how true that is my family is mix Irish Roman Catholic, Irish Prodestant, High Anglican and Scot Presbyterian - the prodestants went to the Freemasons and the Catholic's Knights of St Columba. My Gran described both as boy scouts for grown ups despite I understand my Grandfather and Uncle were quite high up the tree.

I don't know an awful lot about either organisation always feels disrespectful to delve into the Freemasons too much as I don't like it when the sacredness of the temple is not respected.

I guess because of my own family background I have never seen it as a huge deal - if my Gran had felt it was evil my Grandfather would not have been allowed to go.

-Charley

[abqfriend]

The KofC is Catholic men's organization recognized by the Catholic Church. The are one of the main contributors to the passage of proposition 8 in California. They are nothing like the Masons in belief or history.

Learn About Us

Pope Receives Knights of Columbus

-Carol

I have ancestors that were part of the Knights of St Columba though - I know growing up it was described to me as Masons for Roman Catholic's. I don't know how true that is my family is mix Irish Roman Catholic, Irish Prodestant, High Anglican and Scot Presbyterian - the prodestants went to the Freemasons and the Catholic's Knights of St Columba. My Gran described both as boy scouts for grown ups despite I understand my Grandfather and Uncle were quite high up the tree.

I don't know an awful lot about either organisation always feels disrespectful to delve into the Freemasons too much as I don't like it when the sacredness of the temple is not respected.

I guess because of my own family background I have never seen it as a huge deal - if my Gran had felt it was evil my Grandfather would not have been allowed to go.

-Charley

[deseretgov]

I read this stuff on wiki

This is where the problem is. Think of who writies wikipedia. You should research from official sources. But before you even do research you need to establish a fundemental understanding. The understanding doesn't come from the writings of historians but from the words of God and the prophets. Read your Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Bible, and Pearl of Great Price. AFTER you read all of those, then you can read other books. Feast on the words of God, not on the words of men.

im confussed in the fact that weather or not he was a mason befoer or after he was still a masan witch is not of god the fact that it may have been after is worse dont u think after an angel came to guide him and bless him then he turns to masanic belife slightly odd.

Fisrt of all, what is wrong with the Mansons? Now Skull and Bones those are the guys you need to avoid. From what I've read Masons believe in God. They read the Bible. They aren't even a religion they are aplace for religions people to join.

Perhaps its your own personal choice that makes the Masons such a bad thing. Thus anything connected with Freemasonry would seem bad too.

this is just some of the stuff i have read today i wasnt in anyway trying to find a reson to walk away infact i had follen so in love with the idea of mormon belifes i was even going to go to the temple i have not so far way from my home i even has a cupple of missionerys come to my home every week

everyone i spoke to except me for me and eveyone is always nice with out any hang ups at all no one tells me i will go to hell if i dont belive so far my exprienace has been an amazing one

It's great that you have had such wonderful experiences. Just keep reading what is important, the Word of GOD.

Just think whcih will God judge us upon: our knowledge of wikipedia? Or our knowledge of His word.

so to come across on this website lds.net

jhon who has posted about his resons for leaving and about becoming a god and he dosnt wont that responiblity amoungest a lot of other resons for leaving the church

that realy put me back in my seat

Don't worry about trying to become a god. Just try and live the best you can. If God wants you to become a god and you are doing your best there wont be a problem. If God doesn't want you to be a god then that ok too. Just whatever you do, do your best to follow God's commandments and everything else will take care of itself. God is in charge, trust in Him.

"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement -- a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be.'" (LDS Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, Ch.24, p.430 - p.431, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

" 'It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God,' the inspired word continues, 'and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did.' The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same." (LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p.64, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

This is plain and simple heresy.

Not really. It may be heresy according to some religions but is it heresy to God? If you believe the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church then you also must believe tat The true church the Jesus Christ established was lost and corrupted. Thus if teh Catholic church or Church of England or whatever says it's heresy, then they may be wrong, becasuer they don't have the complete truth.

Don't get me wrong other churches aren't bad. They just don't have all of teh truth. They have parts of the truth.

Nowhere does the Bible say or imply that God was ever a man,

I can't think of any Biblical verses either. Does the Bible contain 100% of the word of God? IF you're LDS then you must beleve that it doesn't. Even the Bible itself says it doesn't contain 100% of the Word of God.

or that man can become God!

You're right Not even the LDS church says we can become God(Heavenly Father). We teach that it is our divine potential as literal children of God to become just like Him. We won't become Him, but become like Him.

But actually the Bible does speak about this:

Psalms 82:6

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Malachi 3:6 says, 'For I am the LORD, I change not...'

How could this be true if God was once a man?

That is correct God does not change. If God changed he would cease to be God. But this speaks about the actions of God not about His Physical body.

Deeper ideas(Warning read at your own risk this is my own personal interpretation.)

God exists out side of our own time interpretations. All things are present before Him. The future, the past, and the present, of our world are all before God. He doesn't look back at the past, or look forward into the future. he looks and sees the past, present, and future at the same time. God knows the future becasue it is happening right now for Him. So if God existed as a mortal man(obviously not in this earth but in some other universe) at some point, then He progressed to become God. When He became God He would no longer exist in a mortal timeline, but would now be in His own universe with the past, present, and future all prsent before Him. As a result He would have always existed as God.

Also keep in mind that the Bible doesn't say everything. It only tell us things related to our salvation. The Bible doesn't talk about dinosaurs, yet they existed. But dinosaurs aren't important for our salvation. Becomoing a god is not important to our salvation. Having Faith in Jesus Christ, Repenting, being Baptized, recieving the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and Obeying the commandments the best you can until the final judgement, it what is important for salvation. Focus on those first.

Genesis 1:1 states that God existed 'in the beginning' before man was ever created.

Yes we believe that. The doctrine of Eternal Progression does not contradict that. God was God before we were created as Spirit children, and that was a heck of a long time before the creation of the Earth or start of the Bible ever happened.

John 4:24 states that God is a 'spirit,' and Jesus tells us in John 1:18 that no man has seen God at any time.

Here's some scriptures, emphasis added.

Genesis 32:30

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exodus 33:11

11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Job 19:26

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

No Jesus Himself said this:

Matthew 5:8

8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Those are just a few references. It's quite clear that according to the Bible seeing God is not only possible, but actually happened.

Numbers 23:19 says that 'God is not a man that he should lie; neither the son of man that he should repent.'

Let's examine this scripture.

'God is not a man...'

This is where the hang up is. Notice that is says God IS not a man. This is present tense. In order for this scripture to contradict the idea of Eternal Progress then it should say 'God was not a man...'

But that's not all it also give the reason why they says that God is not a man. this is:

'...that he should lie;"

This is becasue if God is a man then he would not be trustworthy. I've never met any human being that did not tell a lie. But since God is not a man that means that it is possible for Him not to lie.

'neither the son of man'

God is also not the son of any man, because:

'that he should repent.'

If Gos is a son of man or in other words a man, then He would not be perfect and woudl sin and have to repent.

This scripture is defining God's nature in relationship to us. It's not talking about the enture 100% complete history of God.

God has always been God, and no one has ever 'become' God.

Yep. Gos has always been God and we will never become Him. But we will become like Him.

a few of the things u asked me for

i do have a copy of the book of morman witch im reading in my quit moments and i do love it and respect it i take it on brad to after all i am a beginner a learner with so much to ask u and to learn so dont be upset with me just teach me after all faith dosnt come over night its as hard work as everyday life chalenges

Nope i don't think anyone is upset with you. Just remember a few things:

Isaiah 28:10

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Doctrine and Covenants 98:12

12 For he will give unto the faithful line upon line, precept upon precept; and I will try you and prove you herewith.

God doesn't want us to understand everything at once. If He did we would probably literally explode. god gives us a little bit at a time. Line upon line our faith is built up. God will give us some information and then see if we can handle it. If we can handle that information He will give us a little more. Slowly over time we will build a knowledge of the Gospel. Don't expectto know everything at the begining, it's impossible.

Also remember that it's not a race. Take things at your own pace. God knows what you need. Trust in Him and He will provide.

And lastly read God's word. Focus on that. Other books are only there to help us understand God's word. But anything that takes us away from, or distracts us from God's word is not what we should use our time on. IF you focus on His words then He will give you more understanding. Even the prophet doesn't know everything.

Have a great day and good luck!

Edited November 9, 2008 by deseretgov

[livy111us]

Maria,

Joseph Smith said that Masonry has the apostate endowment, or temple ceremony. This can be seen when one looks at early Christianity, Judaism, and the Bible itself. While I cannot go into specifics, I believe the Temple ceremony has NOTHING to do with masonry, and is an ancient practice that traces back thousands of years. Until you go to the Temple, it is difficult to make this point.

Here are some interesting videos from a recent Temple Symposium that shows some ancient rituals performed by Christians:

pt 1

pt2

pt 3

There will be some ground breaking work published on this topic this upcoming year. Again, our Temple ceremony did NOT come from masonry, so do not be worried about that. It is ancient, it is authentic.

Here is another article:

Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices

As for becoming gods, this is another ancient doctrine believed by early Christians. They said such things like

"For we cast blame upon Him, because we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods." (Irenaeus Against Heresies 4:38, Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:522)

The Lord has also promised us similar blessings as he did to Christ

Jesus Christ Saints

Crown Rev. 14:14 James 1:12, Rev. 2:10, 4:4, 10

White robe Mat. 17:2, Mark 9:3, Luke 9:29 Rev. 6:11, 7:9-14

Scepter Heb. 1:8 Rev. 2:26-27

Throne Rev. 3:21 Rev. 3:21

Heir of God Rom. 8:17 Rom. 8:14-21, Gal. 4:1-7

Son title Heb. 1:5, 5:5 John 3:1 Rom. 8:14, 16,

John 1:12, Phil. 2:15, 2 Peter 1:4 1 John 3:1-2, Gal. 3:26

King and priest John 1:49, Heb. 3:1 Rev. 1:6, 5:10

Perfect Mat. 5:48 Mat. 5:48

One with God John 4:11, 17:20-21, 10:30 John 17:21-23

We are also told that we will be "partakers of the divine nature" 2 Peter 1:4. We are promised we will be of the same nature that God is in.

You can read more here:

Deification of man - FAIRMormon

In the Dead Sea Scrolls on parchment QM 12.2 and 1QM 19, identify God as a

"Glorious man" (Manoa, III, Four Powers in Heaven, 103-104)

In Hosea 2:16, the Lord says His people will call him "Ishi". This is Hebrew for "man", or "male person". (see also Ex. 15:3)

Also, is Jesus Christ God? Did he have a mortal body? Was He born? Live a life, eat, drink, sleep, etc...? Did He die? Does any of that take away from His Godhood? Of course not. So why should it take away from God the Father?

[a-train]

2. No one that I know believes that God lived on this earth. Where do you read this?

What? The scriptures as a whole testify that God came to this earth, lived out the human condition, suffered and died, and rose again.

Mosiah 3:5-8

For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases. And he shall cast out devils, or the evil spirits which dwell in the hearts of the children of men. And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people. And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.

-a-train

[maria1981]

This is where the problem is. Think of who writies wikipedia. You should research from official sources. But before you even do research you need to establish a fundemental understanding. The understanding doesn't come from the writings of historians but from the words of God and the prophets. Read your Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Bible, and Pearl of Great Price. AFTER you read all of those, then you can read other books. Feast on the words of God, not on the words of men.

Fisrt of all, what is wrong with the Mansons? Now Skull and Bones those are the guys you need to avoid. From what I've read Masons believe in God. They read the Bible. They aren't even a religion they are aplace for religions people to join.

Perhaps its your own personal choice that makes the Masons such a bad thing. Thus anything connected with Freemasonry would seem bad too.

It's great that you have had such wonderful experiences. Just keep reading what is important, the Word of GOD.

Just think whcih will God judge us upon: our knowledge of wikipedia? Or our knowledge of His word.

Don't worry about trying to become a god. Just try and live the best you can. If God wants you to become a god and you are doing your best there wont be a problem. If God doesn't want you to be a god then that ok too. Just whatever you do, do your best to follow God's commandments and everything else will take care of itself. God is in charge, trust in Him.

Not really. It may be heresy according to some religions but is it heresy to God? If you believe the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church then you also must believe tat The true church the Jesus Christ established was lost and corrupted. Thus if teh Catholic church or Church of England or whatever says it's heresy, then they may be wrong, becasuer they don't have the complete truth.

Don't get me wrong other churches aren't bad. They just don't have all of teh truth. They have parts of the truth.

I can't think of any Biblical verses either. Does the Bible contain 100% of the word of God? IF you're LDS then you must beleve that it doesn't. Even the Bible itself says it doesn't contain 100% of the Word of God.

or that man can become God!

You're right Not even the LDS church says we can become God(Heavenly Father). We teach that it is our divine potential as literal children of God to become just like Him. We won't become Him, but become like Him.

But actually the Bible does speak about this:

Psalms 82:6

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

That is correct God does not change. If God changed he would cease to be God. But this speaks about the actions of God not about His Physical body.

Deeper ideas(Warning read at your own risk this is my own personal interpretation.)

Also keep in mind that the Bible doesn't say everything. It only tell us things related to our salvation. The Bible doesn't talk about dinosaurs, yet they existed. But dinosaurs aren't important for our salvation. Becomoing a god is not important to our salvation. Having Faith in Jesus Christ, Repenting, being Baptized, recieving the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and Obeying the commandments the best you can until the final judgement, it what is important for salvation. Focus on those first.

Yes we believe that. The doctrine of Eternal Progression does not contradict that. God was God before we were created as Spirit children, and that was a heck of a long time before the creation of the Earth or start of the Bible ever happened.

Here's some scriptures, emphasis added.

Genesis 32:30

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exodus 33:11

11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Job 19:26

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

No Jesus Himself said this:

Matthew 5:8

8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Those are just a few references. It's quite clear that according to the Bible seeing God is not only possible, but actually happened.

Let's examine this scripture.

'God is not a man...'

This is where the hang up is. Notice that is says God IS not a man. This is present tense. In order for this scripture to contradict the idea of Eternal Progress then it should say 'God was not a man...'

But that's not all it also give the reason why they says that God is not a man. this is:

'...that he should lie;"

This is becasue if God is a man then he would not be trustworthy. I've never met any human being that did not tell a lie. But since God is not a man that means that it is possible for Him not to lie.

'neither the son of man'

God is also not the son of any man, because:

'that he should repent.'

If Gos is a son of man or in other words a man, then He would not be perfect and woudl sin and have to repent.

This scripture is defining God's nature in relationship to us. It's not talking about the enture 100% complete history of God.

Yep. Gos has always been God and we will never become Him. But we will become like Him.

Nope i don't think anyone is upset with you. Just remember a few things:

Isaiah 28:10

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Doctrine and Covenants 98:12

12 For he will give unto the faithful line upon line, precept upon precept; and I will try you and prove you herewith.

God doesn't want us to understand everything at once. If He did we would probably literally explode. god gives us a little bit at a time. Line upon line our faith is built up. God will give us some information and then see if we can handle it. If we can handle that information He will give us a little more. Slowly over time we will build a knowledge of the Gospel. Don't expectto know everything at the begining, it's impossible.

Also remember that it's not a race. Take things at your own pace. God knows what you need. Trust in Him and He will provide.

And lastly read God's word. Focus on that. Other books are only there to help us understand God's word. But anything that takes us away from, or distracts us from God's word is not what we should use our time on. IF you focus on His words then He will give you more understanding. Even the prophet doesn't know everything.

Have a great day and good luck!

this is very cool reply the reson i have posted in the first place was to learn about the veiws of others

to learn whot other faiths thought about this so far i ahve got an amazing repsons to witch im very grateful so thank you!!!

i have my views on the mason teaching because funny enough i more than u should about them ,yes they are very hush hush ,

i from a realy young age have been interested in anything to do witheveryone faith and groups or cults i have read hundreds of books i have even looked in old archives and talked to people about this

how i know about the masons :

i live in a gate house to a mansion and back on to this this was woods and endless fileds

as i normaly would be out enjoying the woods by digging things up and i found a box

inside the box was 3 books one in code one with codes ones not in code

also in the box were rodes amongst other stuff my grate grandad was a mason

if u think thier is nothing wrong with mason and its all about skull an bones then u are very wrong and need to do some resrech ur self as i did mine meny years ago it was because of my finding out about the masons that i went on to look deeper in to everything

if alister crowley was a founder of a good church would u still say ok this is good or if a member of crowleys group started a church based on good or teach good would u still say its ok

which im still learning now this faith is the last on my list

i ask and ask because i love learning and understanding more about others and thier veiws and thier faith but i like to get to the foundation of the faith not the serface of a faith after all whot do any of us realy learn from the surface of anything,

im a very good christain i do go to church i have taken apart my faith too and thier are meny question i will never find the ansewer too but that will not stop me from looking and learning

i love the lord ad he loves me he wont mind me looking in to faith infact he will enjoy this and why not im learng a good thing something my lord will be proud of im learn about him

i have got the book of mormon i do read and gess whot i got some of my imformation right here on this site for one of ur lds members in fact this was jhon the person who gives u the welcome message when u join up

i have stated this in every post

but still in every single faith nowhere does it state u will become a god but yet lds belive this why????

and why wont any just answer an very simple question if u took a deeper look u will see no faith apart inface in the bible it states u will never be god in everyone else bible read about other faiths and u will see this for urself it wont be hard to find

down below whot????????

this is whot im talking about it seems very odd that the lord himself in everyone faith states u will never be a god only god can be god

i will not worrie about being a good i would never belive this statment from just one church ever in history states this as to this is untrue and in every single bible ever writen states this is untrue just one person and one book and one faith in the world belive this

for all who belive my canllenge to u is go and read and study someone else good book u say u are christain but ur belivef are different way the same go read areal bible the one which were from christ

dont just stop at one good book at the book of mormon get an take a look at other faiths learn if u wont to know god then learn about god , and get bthe truth from all ways not one

u can not get a truful under standing of god from one faith or one book

it takes a long time u cant just pray and get an ansewr u would be lying if u said that

im a seeing person which means i see the other side all the time so i do know alot

as much as it annoys people

but this faith has get me stuck as everyone is nice and kind and gentale they except everyone and i mean come u dont get that in all faith do u

its a real get stuck in and learn every spare minute i get i read

i find in compelling reading ur book of mormon

when my kids are older i will teach them about all faith it will be interesting to see whot they choose

i have every one bible at home so they have a grate choice after all god is part of history too and us and they should have the truth from all not just one

after all mormon set me chalenges all the time everyweek they come to my nhouse with more question to which i have to go and get the ansewer its fun when u get in to it

from going back to the time of christ thier were 3 true faiths and they where

jewish christain and muslium

when ur a muslium u can only marry the people of the book and guess who they are

jew and christain

the above are more true faith so i have learn than any otrher faith which has been changed to suit themselfs at the time

do u see where im coming from with this???????????

cool everyone i love the response please dont get angry i dont judge u just learning which is a good thing not a bad thing i love the faith but not just one faith i love god and that includes all faith all ways to love the lord as everyway is good and right

Don't worry about trying to become a god. Just try and live the best you can. If God wants you to become a god and you are doing your best there wont be a problem. If God doesn't want you to be a god then that ok too. Just whatever you do, do your best to follow God's commandments and everything else will take care of itself. God is in charge, trust in Him.

[maria1981]

What? The scriptures as a whole testify that God came to this earth, lived out the human condition, suffered and died, and rose again.

Mosiah 3:5-8

-a-train

hi u should have quoted the whole sentance not taken a small part

god didnt not live oin the earth and no man has meet good jesus sttes this in every good book before book of mormon and sfter book of mormon jesus said this jesuse said that god lived befor man im sorry that the book of mormon doesnt tell u this or just plain misses this bit out but it says before man

[maria1981]

also stated about mason some-one posted

mason is not bad why do i think that its the skull bones i should worrie about

fact skull and bones are mason fact

skull and bones is a group name like a class room has a name

they are in fact mason who call thier class room skull and bones

[maria1981]

mosses did not see god face to face god was a voice to mosses

[deseretgov]

mosses did not see god face to face god was a voice to mosses

What is your sources please. I'm not trying to be confrontational but I quoted that straight out of the Bible.

[maria1981]

What is your sources please. I'm not trying to be confrontational but I quoted that straight out of the Bible.

yet still no-one can tell me why u think u will be gods????????????????????????????????

god came face to face with mosses in a BURNING BUSH YES THATS RIGHT PEOEL A BURNING BUSH A VOICE IN A BURNING BUSH NOT A FACE

IN EVERY OTHER GOOD BOOK THIS IS WHOT IS SAYS I THINK MORMON HAS BEEN SLIGHTLY TWISTED DONT U!!!!!!!

IT AMAZES ME HOW MUCH THE MORMON CHURCH COVERS THING UPO OR JUST PLAIN WONT TELL U AND GESS WHOT IN GODS GOOD BOOK THATS CALLED LYING AND LYING BIS A SIN SO FOR SOMEONE WHO IS MENT TO NOT SIN U SEEM TO BE DOING IT ALOT MORE THEN U KNOW OR WONT TO ADMITE

The Bible contains astonishing accounts of God and Moses speaking face to face begin when Moses is quietly minding his own business as a shepherd. God appears to Moses in a burning bush. Moses sees a bush which burns without being consumed - a symbol of the presence of God which defies usual human experience of things. And he hears a voice which calls him by his own name (Exodus 3:4)

AGAIN GOD COMES TO THE PEOPLE AS A FIRE NOT FACE TO FACE A VOICE

The other great face to face encounter with God is when Moses has brought the Israelites out of Egypt and has returned with them to Sinai where he first met God. The encounter is awesome. When God appears to the people of Israel, a whole mountain burns; for when God comes, Sinai becomes like a volcano (not an actual volcano, but God's coming is so awesome that the only way to depict it is in the language of the most overwhelming of known phenomena):

I WILL SAY AGAIN

The other great face to face encounter with God is when Moses has brought the Israelites out of Egypt and has returned with them to Sinai where he first met God. The encounter is awesome. When God appears to the people of Israel, a whole mountain burns; for when God comes, Sinai becomes like a volcano (not an actual volcano, but God's coming is so awesome that the only way to depict it is in the language of the most overwhelming of known phenomena):

God then gives the Ten Commandments to Moses as a kind of basic constitution or charter for Israel, together with some more detailed laws that apply the Commandments within everyday situations. Israel responds by promising obedience (Exodus 24:3-7).

MY SORCE IS FROM THE TRUE BIBBLE U KNOW THE ONE JESUS GAVE TO THE PEOPLE

NO MAN SHALL BE GOD NORE NO MAN SHALL SEE GOD

JESUS SAID THIS IN EVERY BIBLE APART FROM YOURS

[maria1981]

Please go out an buy yourself a real christain bible not one a mormomn church gives you

u ask as to learn by reading the book of mormom so we do but you refusse to learn the true bible the one givin to you by tru prothets

i have had enough of the lies will ppost a true pictcher of all of this in my leaving post

[deseretgov]

yet still no-one can tell me why u think u will be gods????????????????????????????????

What answer are you looking for? It's so simple. We believe that we are literal children of God. We are his literal sons and daughters. Just as with any other child it is our potential to become just like our father. A Baby chick becomes a chicken. A puppy becomes a dog. A Baby horse becomes a...say it with me...Horse. A child of God becomes...guess what....just like the Father.

Here's a verse right out of the Bible. No this isn't somme LDS version of the Bible this right out of the King James Bible, one of the most commonly accepted Bibles in all of Christianity.

Psalms 82:6

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

This verse says that we are gods and that we are children of the most High. Look this verse up in your Bible and tell me what it says.

god came face to face with mosses in a BURNING BUSH YES THATS RIGHT PEOEL A BURNING BUSH A VOICE IN A BURNING BUSH NOT A FACE

So why does it say face to face in the Bible?

Exodus 33:11

11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

That says the the Lord spoke unto Moses face to face. It didn't say face to bush or face to loud booming voice. It said face to face. Look this up in your own Bible and tell me what it says.

IN EVERY OTHER GOOD BOOK THIS IS WHOT IS SAYS I THINK MORMON HAS BEEN SLIGHTLY TWISTED DONT U!!!!!!!

Those quotes I gave you came out of the King James Version of the Bible. Many other Christian churches use this book. Look these verses up yourself if you doubt mh.

IT AMAZES ME HOW MUCH THE MORMON CHURCH COVERS THING UPO OR JUST PLAIN WONT TELL U AND GESS WHOT IN GODS GOOD BOOK THATS CALLED LYING AND LYING BIS A SIN SO FOR SOMEONE WHO IS MENT TO NOT SIN U SEEM TO BE DOING IT ALOT MORE THEN U KNOW OR WONT TO ADMITE

Covers things up or wont tell you? Maybe you just need to ask better questions. So go ahead ask me anything. Anything ask away.

The Bible contains astonishing accounts of God and Moses speaking face to face begin when Moses is quietly minding his own business as a shepherd. God appears to Moses in a burning bush. Moses sees a bush which burns without being consumed - a symbol of the presence of God which defies usual human experience of things. And he hears a voice which calls him by his own name (Exodus 3:4)

I'm not doubting this at all. I believe this 100%

AGAIN GOD COMES TO THE PEOPLE AS A FIRE NOT FACE TO FACE A VOICE

The other great face to face encounter with God is when Moses has brought the Israelites out of Egypt and has returned with them to Sinai where he first met God. The encounter is awesome. When God appears to the people of Israel, a whole mountain burns; for when God comes, Sinai becomes like a volcano (not an actual volcano, but God's coming is so awesome that the only way to depict it is in the language of the most overwhelming of known phenomena):

I WILL SAY AGAIN

The other great face to face encounter with God is when Moses has brought the Israelites out of Egypt and has returned with them to Sinai where he first met God. The encounter is awesome. When God appears to the people of Israel, a whole mountain burns; for when God comes, Sinai becomes like a volcano (not an actual volcano, but God's coming is so awesome that the only way to depict it is in the language of the most overwhelming of known phenomena):

So why does it say face to face in Ex 33:11? Please explain this to me.

God then gives the Ten Commandments to Moses as a kind of basic constitution or charter for Israel, together with some more detailed laws that apply the Commandments within everyday situations. Israel responds by promising obedience (Exodus 24:3-7).

I'm not denying this. I believe this 100%

MY SORCE IS FROM THE TRUE BIBBLE U KNOW THE ONE JESUS GAVE TO THE PEOPLE

Did you know that Jesus didn't give the Bible to the people. You do know where the Bible came from don't you? The Bible was assembled from the writings of various prophets. The Old tesatment was alreadyt around during the time of Christ. The twelve apostles wrote down their experiences and evetually after the apostles had died these were assembled into the New Testament. These books were first combined together in about 300AD.

NO MAN SHALL BE GOD NORE NO MAN SHALL SEE GOD

JESUS SAID THIS IN EVERY BIBLE APART FROM YOURS

Look these verses up in your bible please:

Job 19:26

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Jesus Himself said this one.

Matthew 5:8

8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Both of these specifically state that people can and will see God. Please tell me why you think these verses and even Jesus Himself is lying.

Please go out an buy yourself a real christain bible not one a mormomn church gives you

Look those verses up in your Bible and post them for comparision.

u ask as to learn by reading the book of mormom so we do but you refusse to learn the true bible the one givin to you by tru prothets

We believe the Bible All the scriptures I've posted are from the Bible only. Fortunately we also have the Book of Mormon and the words of modern prophets to guide us. We know not only what God wanted for ancient people but what God wants for us right now this very second.

i have had enough of the lies will ppost a true pictcher of all of this in my leaving post

What lies? My sources are from the Holy Scriptures. Do you think the Bible is lying?

I'll await your response to each verse I've posted. If there's no response I'll assume you agree with them.

[mnn727]

mosses did not see god face to face god was a voice to mosses

Funny then that the Bible says differently:

Exodus 33: 11

11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Seems pretty clear to me, we're not asking you to take our word for it -- open up your Bible and see if it doesn't say the exact same thing.

What first hand experience do you have with Masons?

What Precisley do you have against Masons, what is it about them that is bad?

They sound pretty good to me. Please read the below quotes and tell me what is so bad about Masons.

The Lodge is the center of activities for masons. Masonry teaches that each person has a responsibility to make things better in the world. Most individuals will not be the ones to find a cure for cancer, or eliminate poverty, or help create world peace, but every man and woman and child can do something to help others and to make things a little better. Masonry is deeply involved with helping people -- it spends more than $1.4 million dollars every day in the United States, just to make life a little easier and the great majority of that help goes to people who are not Masons. Some of these charities are vast projects, like the Crippled Children’ s Hospitals and Burns Institutes built by the Shriner’ s. Also, Scottish Rite Masons maintain a nationwide network of over 100 Childhood Language Disorders Clinics, Centers, and Programs. Each helps children afflicted by such conditions as aphasia, dyslexia, stuttering, and related learning or speech disorders.

Some services are less noticeable, like helping a widow pay her electric bill or buying coats and shoes for disadvantaged children. And there is just about anything you can think of in-between, but with projects large or small, the Masons of a lodge try to help make the world a better place. The lodge gives them a way to combine with others to do even more good.

In a time when travel was by horseback and sailing ship, Masonry spread with amazing speed. By 1731, when Benjamin Franklin joined the fraternity, there were already several lodges in the Colonies, and Masonry spread rapidly as America expanded west. In addition to Franklin, many of the Founding Fathers -- men such as George Washington, Paul Revere, Joseph Warren, and John Hancock -- were Masons. Masons and Masonry played an important part in the Revolutionary War and an even more important part in the Constitutional Convention and the debates surrounding the ratification of the Bill of Rights. Many of those debates were held in Masonic lodges.

from : http://www.mastermason.com/jjcrowder/mason/mason.html

Edited November 11, 2008 by mnn727

[mnn727]

From the first couple posts

i have only been a member for a short while

today i feel sad to have learnt about this as until now i was happy and ready to go to the temple

from the latest post

IN EVERY OTHER GOOD BOOK THIS IS WHOT IS SAYS I THINK MORMON HAS BEEN SLIGHTLY TWISTED DONT U!!!!!!!

IT AMAZES ME HOW MUCH THE MORMON CHURCH COVERS THING UPO OR JUST PLAIN WONT TELL U AND GESS WHOT IN GODS GOOD BOOK THATS CALLED LYING AND LYING BIS A SIN SO FOR SOMEONE WHO IS MENT TO NOT SIN U SEEM TO BE DOING IT ALOT MORE THEN U KNOW OR WONT TO ADMITE

Hmmmmmm, I won't say the 'T' word, but I sure am thinking it

[deseretgov]

Hmmmmmm, I won't say the 'T' word, but I sure am thinking it

Could you please PM me the "T" word. I'm not sure what you mean.

[a-train]

Could you please PM me the "T" word. I'm not sure what you mean.

The word he is thinking of is simple.

Real simple.

Only certain people come looking for a confrontation.

Let's imagine them standing under a bridge and waiting for us to come along.

Lunging out at us, they try to take us by surprise.

-a-train

[deseretgov]

The word he is thinking of is simple.

Real simple.

Only certain people come looking for a confrontation.

Let's imagine them standing under a bridge and waiting for us to come along.

Lunging out at us, they try to take us by surprise.

-a-train

OHHHHHH. I get it now. Thanks. Hahaha.

[maria1981]

ooh ok code when confront with whot could be truth

odd !!!!!

im sad to think that yes i do belive in god and sometime when u read things that get twisted or are taken out of context im sure u will correct that

agian mosse did not see god face to face this is an expresstion inhole sentance no the book u should put down the whole sentance not just half of a sentance mosses stod face to face with god as a burning bush not gods face

but a voice

is no one reading the post

as jesus states himself in the bible

NO MAN CAN BE GOD NORE SEE GOD HIMSELF

this is taken from the bible u know the book witch was around thounds of years before mormon came along

again no one is answering why u think u will be a god are u ashamed of this or something seems odd

how can u preach something yet have no grounds apart from one man who was not a son of god who says that ,

where does it say in the bible u shal be a god and rule over ur own universe IT DOESNT

can anyone at all explain this to me

[maria1981]

in the first place i was not being confrentaional far from it

i was asking a question hoping for an ansewer instead i got a robotic avoindence for ansewers

when all i was trying to do was learn but i cant learn anything if no one wonts to give me a real teaching answer

please cdan anyone just read my posts in fall and teach me guid me to the correct ansewrs

i wont deny i find it offence that u belive u be gods of corse i do any christain would as jesus stats this is not true

as when u ask the most simple of questions and get no ansewer u do start to wonder why no one is willing just to be honest and share thier true veiw on this

ashamed or just concerend this is offence to others is the only thing i can think it could be

but u should be after all im just trying so hard to learn thats all if u walk away from someone who just wont someone to be honest with them then how sure are u about ur faith

[Guest ceeboo]

ooh ok code when confront with whot could be truth

odd !!!!!

im sad to think that yes i do belive in god and sometime when u read things that get twisted or are taken out of context im sure u will correct that

agian mosse did not see god face to face this is an expresstion inhole sentance no the book u should put down the whole sentance not just half of a sentance mosses stod face to face with god as a burning bush not gods face

but a voice

is no one reading the post

as jesus states himself in the bible

NO MAN CAN BE GOD NORE SEE GOD HIMSELF

this is taken from the bible u know the book witch was around thounds of years before mormon came along

again no one is answering why u think u will be a god are u ashamed of this or something seems odd

how can u preach something yet have no grounds apart from one man who was not a son of god who says that ,

where does it say in the bible u shal be a god and rule over ur own universe IT DOESNT

can anyone at all explain this to me

Hi Maria,

Patience my friend, :)

There are many members here ( I am NOT one of them ) that will be able to explain to you why and what the LDS believe.

I would strongly encourage you ( if you desire the answers you seek ) to be a little less contentious and allow for an enviornment where you can share your thoughts as well as recieve others thoughts in a " open minded " manner.

Good luck in your search for answers !!!

God bless,

Carl