Question!

[alliecat]

I have a question. It's kind of stupid.. but I don't know what to do!

I attend a Lutheran church, along with basically every member of my family for generations. I am interested in learning about the LDS Church but I know my dad would be very against it. He believes it's a cult. I know that if I would talk to missionaries or anything like that it would be against his wishes, and technically breaking a commandment (the 4th one I think). What do I do?

[Dr T]

I'd wonder how old u are and how invested u are and how much u know about your own church.

[Maxel]

Allicat-

Welcome to the site!

There are a number of online resources you can check out- Mormon.org is really good for explaining the basics of our faith, and LDS.org is the official site of the church with an online copy of our scriptures (the King James Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price) at sciptures.lds.org.

These forums are a good place for learning about the doctrines of the church and for asking specific questions you may have.

As for not going against your father's wishes... that's a tough one. I've never felt it morally wrong to honestly attempt to find out more about a worthy subject. I can assure you we are most definitely not a 'cult' in the modern sense of the word (although technically a 'cult' is a term for any religion) where the members are brainwashed and dangerous to themselves and others.

Good luck!

Any specific questions?

[Guest tomk]

How old are you?

[tubaloth]

Probably the best place to start is to share your feelings with your Dad.

Find out his side of it, tell him you just want to learn more. Be it getting a copy of the book of mormon, or going to church once. I would hope both of you can come to some sort of compromise.

You can even get TWO copies of the book of mormon and have him read it also (so he knows we aren't trying to brainwash you).

I don't think you are going to get very far if you try to do it behind his back. You can go to the web sites others gave. That is a start. But I think being upfront and trying to reason with your dad is the only way its every going to work.

You also can pray about it, and see what you feel is right. God does answer prayers, just listen.

[alliecat]

I'm 18 years old. And yeah, I do know a lot of stuff about my own church. I've actually been involved with some ministries (youth ministries and a confirmation helper). I've researched a lot about the LDS church online. I pray a lot about it too.. but pretty much everything that I've learned so far has made sense. I've had some questions in the past, but they have been answered and have made sense, too.

[Maxel]

If you don't mind me asking, what were some of those questions? I ask because there's a lot of misinformation about our Church 'out there'- a lot more than you'd expect for a religion that has a membership of only 14 million.

BTW, for everyone else, she posted a nice bit of background information on her profile.

Edited February 12, 2009 by Maxel

[alliecat]

I also have been praying about what to do. I've been taught that God answers prayers and I firmly believe that, because I've had many prayers answered. But somehow I was still struggling with this problem. Thank you guys for your input! I think what I really need to do is build up courage and talk to him about it!

[alliecat]

This one's to Maxel-- Um.. well a big one for me was about the Garden of Eden and it's location. Missouri? I don't know.. I'm still not too sure about that one..

Another question was just about how you guys have water at communion. I understand that drinking wine would break the Words of Wisdom but I don't understand how it really represents Jesus' blood and sacrifice.

[Dr T]

I checked Max thanks. Allie, I'd say u r 18 and can make your own decisions but I agree with the idea of talking to your dad about your desire first then do as u feel. (I don't get this emoticon what does it mean?)

[Dr T]

This one's to Maxel-- Um.. well a big one for me was about the Garden of Eden and it's location. Missouri? I don't know.. I'm still not too sure about that one..

Another question was just about how you guys have water at communion. I understand that drinking wine would break the Words of Wisdom but I don't understand how it really represents Jesus' blood and sacrifice.

great questions Allie. Jesus did drink wine as he did in the last supper and at the wedding he changed water to wine... He is not anti-wine.

[siouxz72]

great questions Allie. Jesus did drink wine as he did in the last supper and at the wedding he changed water to wine... He is not anti-wine.

yeah..but He only likes white wines served with fish.. so.... now what?

[Dr T]

I guess I'd have to say since Jesus likes fish anyone that is allergic must be "sinful!" j/k

[Maxel]

This one's to Maxel-- Um.. well a big one for me was about the Garden of Eden and it's location. Missouri? I don't know.. I'm still not too sure about that one..

It is odd when something so commonplace is given a close relation to something as 'mystic' as the Garden of Eden. Ask yourself this- would it have made more sense if it were located in another place; another continent?

Another question was just about how you guys have water at communion. I understand that drinking wine would break the Words of Wisdom but I don't understand how it really represents Jesus' blood and sacrifice.

The LDS look at the sacrament as very symbolic; the fact that water is used is symbolic in another way. In addition to being a reminder that Christ is the Living Water springing up unto eternal life,

"The water is a reminder that the Savior shed His blood in intense spiritual suffering and anguish, beginning in the Garden of Gethsemane and concluding on the cross." (Sacrament- LDS.org)

[alliecat]

:) Haha. Yeah I kinda get it now. But how can the Words of Wisdom only apply to times right now? I mean, if Jesus did it, then why is it sinful now? That's the part that confuses me still..

[Dr T]

But read what Jesus said during the last supper. It does not say, "This is my water" or anything Maxel just laid out. He said, "This is my blood..."

[Maxel]

Here's the scripture from the Doctrine and Covenants I was looking for but couldn't find. I blame my own ineptitude due to lateness of night where I am.

Doctrine and Covenants 27:2

2 For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.

[Dr T]

Allie, if that's all it takes to convice you then man you are an easy sell girl. Maybe that's why you father does not want u looking into another church. Someone can attempt and justify something as basic as Jesus last supper and u believe it just like that... Good luck to u Allie :) I hope you find the real God.

[Maxel]

But read what Jesus said during the last supper. It does not say, "This is my water" or anything Maxel just laid out. He said, "This is my blood..."

He didn't say "This is my wine..." either... Clearly the import was placed on the symbolism of the occasion, not the drink. But, I digress...

There's another discussion about the Word of Wisdom going on here. (I don't want to come across as arrogant, but I directed the link to a post I posted earlier about the subject- it deals with why the Word of Wisdom was implemented today. The entire thread is wonderful reading, but my post deals with that specific question.)

Edited February 12, 2009 by Maxel
Fixed BBC coding

[Maxel]

Allie, if that's all it takes to convice you then man you are an easy sell girl. Maybe that's why you father does not want u looking into another church. Someone can attempt and justify something as basic as Jesus last supper and u believe it just like that... Good luck to u Allie :) I hope you find the real God.

With all due respect, I think his intentions about her not looking into the Mormon church has something to do with the fact he thinks it's a 'cult' (using Allie's own words). Give her some breathing room.

[alliecat]

Actually Dr T.. I posted my last post before I even saw Maxel's post about water/communion. I'm not quite that easily persuaded.

Maxel-- He might have not said "This is my wine" but wasn't he drinking it?

[Maxel]

Actually Dr T.. I posted my last post before I even saw Maxel's post about water/communion. I'm not quite that easily persuaded.

Maxel-- He might have not said "This is my wine" but wasn't he drinking it?

Yes; my point was that Dr T's argument is irrelevant to the discussion. There's two issues: the Word of Wisdom (including the commandment against alcohol) and using water instead of wine in the sacrament. While related, they are separate.

The first is discussed in the thread I linked; the latter in the scriptures I cited and linked.

[Dr T]

Yes, He was. I've also heard people trying to use "Wine wasn't like it is today" saying that u could not get drunk with it so therefore it's different. That is not true either. Read the Bible as a whole to get better understanding of things-That's all I'm trying to say. I'm glad that u are not so easily persuaded Allie. If u have any questions about the Bible or Christianity please don't hesitate to ask me. Thanks. :)

[Maxel]

Actually Dr T.. I posted my last post before I even saw Maxel's post about water/communion. I'm not quite that easily persuaded.

Good for you; I wouldn't be able to persuade myself if what I presented in that post was all the case I could make for it.

I was having trouble finding the scripture I wanted to reference about it, and posted it while looking.

[Maxel]

Yes, He was. I've also heard people trying to use "Wine wasn't like it is today" saying that u could not get drunk with it so therefore it's different. That is not true either. Read the Bible as a whole to get better understanding of things-That's all I'm trying to say. I'm glad that u are not so easily persuaded Allie. If u have any questions about the Bible or Christianity please don't hesitate to ask me. Thanks. :)

Wow, Dr T, I've never seen you so condescending before, and this use of a straw man is the first time I've seen you employ the tactic. Of course I may be wrong, but I didn't see any invitation for debate about doctrine on this thread. I wouldn't go into a thread started by someone looking for information on the Muslim faith, or traditional Christianity and start claiming their doctrine and practices were false- please show us (and Allie) the same courtesy.

A treatment of the Word of Wisdom is given in the link I cited; and I think her purpose here is to learn about the Church's stance and not debate about its truth. I may be wrong on that too, and if I am I apologize, Alliecat.

Edited February 12, 2009 by Maxel