Just_A_Guy Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 I understand your point, Joseph was unjustly murdered by a mob. But still, what were Christ's teachings? Love your enemies, turn the other cheek.... yes most of the ealy Christians martyrs were tried and put to death by a government. But not all, James Jesus' brother was killed by a mob, thrown off the temple, but that didn't kill him.J-Pip, did you miss the part where I noted that accounts differ as to James' death, and that Josephus at least argues that it was a government action?Just because John Foxe wrote something fifteen hundred years after the fact, doesn't make it gospel truth. You are on very shaky ground, both theologically and historically, if you insist that Christ's teachings demand we become doormats the first time someone calls out for our blood.
jolee65 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 Dont try to make any valid points he knows it all and you cant convince him of anything different. I dont understand someone like this, they have there own religion but yet they spend there time discrediting other religions. Im sure if we know his religion (not sure if he mentioned it) we could come up with a list of things that could discredit his religion , but why would we do that isnt that taking our time away from our belifes and putting it on theres, I think he might even want to become a mormon he seems to know or thinks he knows alot of the history of our church or Christs church that is because we are Christians after all.
J-Pip Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Posted February 19, 2009 According to a passage in Josephus's Jewish Antiquities, (xx.9) "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" met his death after the death of the procurator Porcius Festus, yet before Lucceius Albinus took office (Antiquities 20,9) — which has thus been dated to 62. The High Priest Ananus ben Ananus took advantage of this lack of imperial oversight to assemble a Sanhedrin who condemned James "on the charge of breaking the law," then had him executed by stoning. Josephus reports that Ananus' act was widely viewed as little more than judicial murder, and offended a number of "those who were considered the most fair-minded people in the City, and strict in their observance of the Law," who went as far as meeting Albinus as he entered the province to petition him about the matter. In response, King Agrippa replaced Ananus with Jesus, the son of Damneus. Had Joseph been tried and found guilty of some false crimes, I'd of called it Judicial murder too, but he was just plain Murdered. Heggesepius gives the rest of the story. Or another version.... “ They came, therefore, in a body to James, and said: "We entreat thee, restrain the people: for they are gone astray in their opinions about Jesus, as if he were the Christ. We entreat thee to persuade all who have come hither for the day of the passover, concerning Jesus. For we all listen to thy persuasion; since we, as well as all the people, bear thee testimony that thou art just, and showest partiality to none. Do thou, therefore, persuade the people not to entertain erroneous opinions concerning Jesus: for all the people, and we also, listen to thy persuasion. Take thy stand, then, upon the summit of the temple, that from that elevated spot thou mayest be clearly seen, and thy words may be plainly audible to all the people. For, in order to attend the passover, all the tribes have congregated hither, and some of the Gentiles also.[12] To the scribes' and Pharisees' dismay, James boldly testified that Christ "Himself sitteth in heaven, at the right hand of the Great Power, and shall come on the clouds of heaven." The scribes and pharisees then said to themselves, "We have not done well in procuring this testimony to Jesus. But let us go up and throw him down, that they may be afraid, and not believe him." ” Accordingly, the scribes and Pharisees “ …threw down the just man… [and] began to stone him: for he was not killed by the fall; but he turned, and kneeled down, and said: "I beseech Thee, Lord God our Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." And, while they were thus stoning him to death, one of the priests, the sons of Rechab, the son of Rechabim, to whom testimony is borne by Jeremiah the prophet, began to cry aloud, saying: "Cease, what do ye? The just man is praying for us." But one among them, one of the fullers, took the staff with which he was accustomed to wring out the garments he dyed, and hurled it at the head of the just man. And so he suffered martyrdom; and they buried him on the spot, and the pillar erected to his memory still remains, close by the temple. This man was a true witness to both Jews and Greeks that Jesus is the Christ.
J-Pip Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Posted February 19, 2009 Dont try to make any valid points he knows it all and you cant convince him of anything different. I dont understand someone like this, they have there own religion but yet they spend there time discrediting other religions. Im sure if we know his religion (not sure if he mentioned it) we could come up with a list of things that could discredit his religion , but why would we do that isnt that taking our time away from our belifes and putting it on theres, I think he might even want to become a mormon he seems to know or thinks he knows alot of the history of our church or Christs church that is because we are Christians after all.I don't belong to a religion, call me Christian if you want. I was Mormon till this past year, Jesus found me and he changed my life.
jolee65 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 Well He (Jesus) pretty much did the samething to us too. but thank you for all your words of wisdom, and I really do wish you luck in your qwest for answers but your going about it the wrong way, see searching for answers isnt telling other people there wrong. Being a member of the Momon church wasnt for you and thats ok, who am I to tell you to rethink or pray about it, its your salvation and your in control of it, but so are we. Just keep that in mind when discussing religion.
J-Pip Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Posted February 19, 2009 its your salvation and your in control of it, but so are we. Just keep that in mind when discussing religion.God is in control of my salvation, even my faith in him is because of his grace.We could discuss religion till the cows came home, i'd rather discuss truth. The truth is: one of us has to be wrong, we're both pretty convinced that we're right. You're religion wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't sending missionaries out to tell others they're wrong. So lets get past the pleasantries of Mormonism not working out for me. If you really believe that's OK you're not being truthful or are being ignorant about it. Mormonism teaches that it is the only way to God. I believe that Christ is the only way to God. So yeah, being truthful, it's not OK with me that you believe in Mormonism, I couldn't say that I loved my fellow man if I didn't try to reach out to those I felt were in need of truth. I pray that God will open your eyes and give you truth as he did me and many others.
Madriglace Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 What does it matter whether WE think Joseph acted as a servant of the Savior when he was MURDERED?? What matters is what the Savior thought. Joseph was told early on that his name would be had for good and bad and it is still going on. A word of caution ... whether you believe or not ... there are some things you just don't mess with ... like Israel and the Lord's annointed. If one chooses otherwise please let me know so I can stand else where when the fallout starts. Joseph Smith was and is the Propeht of the restoration ... no doubts here.
jolee65 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) And the truth comes out ,look you need to move on you know why because your fellowman says so, because your not being asked to help, nobody here wants your help. But I will pray for you and hope that Heavenly Father can over look people that mock other religions only for there own self rightous needs. peace be with you. Edited February 19, 2009 by jolee65
Just_A_Guy Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 J-Pip: The point being, that it is by no means certain that James actually subjected himself to an extrajudicial mob.
goofball Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 God is in control of my salvation, even my faith in him is because of his grace.We could discuss religion till the cows came home, i'd rather discuss truth. The truth is: one of us has to be wrong, we're both pretty convinced that we're right. You're religion wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't sending missionaries out to tell others they're wrong. So lets get past the pleasantries of Mormonism not working out for me. If you really believe that's OK you're not being truthful or are being ignorant about it. Mormonism teaches that it is the only way to God. I believe that Christ is the only way to God. So yeah, being truthful, it's not OK with me that you believe in Mormonism, I couldn't say that I loved my fellow man if I didn't try to reach out to those I felt were in need of truth. I pray that God will open your eyes and give you truth as he did me and many others.I feel this itch coming on. Must be due the this thread about to be closed due to personal attacks.
Guest ceeboo Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 Be cautious you fine people !!! Ceeboo ( moderator in training ) is watching!!
Guest Ceeboos_Boss Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 Be cautious you fine people !!!Ceeboo ( moderator in training ) is watching!!omg... I have never laughted so hard at a computer screen
jolee65 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 He believes he can change a persons religion. and we do have control over were we end up, you could be followig satan, now that would change your salvation wouldnt it.
jolee65 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 Be cautious you fine people !!!Ceeboo ( moderator in training ) is watching!!Good it was starting to get ugly...
Guest Ceeboos_Boss Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 god is in control of my salvation, even my faith in him is because of his grace.we could discuss religion till the cows came home, i'd rather discuss truth. The truth is: One of us has to be wrong, we're both pretty convinced that we're right. You're religion wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't sending missionaries out to tell others they're wrong. So lets get past the pleasantries of mormonism not working out for me. If you really believe that's ok you're not being truthful or are being ignorant about it. Mormonism teaches that it is the only way to god. I believe that christ is the only way to god. So yeah, being truthful, it's not ok with me that you believe in mormonism, i couldn't say that i loved my fellow man if i didn't try to reach out to those i felt were in need of truth. I pray that god will open your eyes and give you truth as he did me and many others.ok its not so nice anymore! Cant we all just love each other and get along.
jolee65 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 I try really I do, but I have a hard time with people like that im not a very passive person im a passionate person and that kind of talk ruffles my feathers. I hope I didnt get to nasty with my words , I can have a silver tongue at times,...lol
Guest Ceeboos_Boss Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 I try really I do, but I have a hard time with people like that im not a very passive person im a passionate person and that kind of talk ruffles my feathers. I hope I didnt get to nasty with my words , I can have a silver tongue at times,...lolI know what your saying. Im very hot head when it comes to what i believe is right!:)
jolee65 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 I just want the same respect , other people dont have to believe what I believe but if they make the choice to disrespect my choices, then its not going to a pleasent conversation. Oh and welcome new friend :)
J-Pip Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Posted February 19, 2009 ok its not so nice anymore! Cant we all just love each other and get along. I didn't mean to offend, and I don't see any personal attacks in what I said. I too am passionate about what I believe, believe it or not I was as a Mormon also. "Loving each other and getting along" is closing our eyes on the truth that we should be reaching out to help God save us.
goofball Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 Jolee, after a few post like these you learn that some people come to argue and others are really and truly interested. I used to wonder why other people did not respond to those asking questions when I realized that they to have learned who is interested and who comes to argue. Thanks for your posts here and answering what you could before it turned ugly
jolee65 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 So,true im a newie in training lol. if its civilized conversation then i'll talk with anyone but not stone throwing
goofball Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 So,true im a newie in training lol. if its civilized conversation then i'll talk with anyone but not stone throwingI also enjoy healthy, non-abusive discussion. Stone throwing is unproductive. It took me awhile to realize that and I do on occasion lash out but one baby step at a time.
jolee65 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 JP your not new here a new e mail address and new name. I thnk EJ is your name, he used to be a mormon too, and he trys to come off civilized but it always comes down to stone throwing. save your self and that new child of yours and feel good about that. See im still learning, Goofball,......lol
bytor2112 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 God is in control of my salvation, even my faith in him is because of his grace.We could discuss religion till the cows came home, i'd rather discuss truth. The truth is: one of us has to be wrong, we're both pretty convinced that we're right. You're religion wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't sending missionaries out to tell others they're wrong. So lets get past the pleasantries of Mormonism not working out for me. If you really believe that's OK you're not being truthful or are being ignorant about it. Mormonism teaches that it is the only way to God. I believe that Christ is the only way to God. So yeah, being truthful, it's not OK with me that you believe in Mormonism, I couldn't say that I loved my fellow man if I didn't try to reach out to those I felt were in need of truth. I pray that God will open your eyes and give you truth as he did me and many others.Truth will come to us all eventually.......maybe you weren't ready for the truth. Our missionaries don't tell others that they are wrong, they tell them the good news, that the heaven's have been opened and more truth exists. We believe that Christ is the only way to God too???????
bytor2112 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) "Loving each other and getting along" is closing our eyes on the truth that we should be reaching out to help God save us."How so??? How is loving each other and getting along closing our eyes to truth? Personally, I think it is good advice and reminds me of the words of a favorite hymn:As I have loved you,Love one another.This new commandment:Love one another.By this shall men knowYe are my disciples,If ye have loveOne to another. Edited February 19, 2009 by bytor2112
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