Prayer....

[huma17]

Originally posted by curvette@Feb 9 2005, 01:29 PM

I'm thinkin that you have far too many questions worrying you to be thinking about the marriage thing for now. Take some time to resolve your questions about yourself and God, and then think about bringing someone else into the mix. (you may come to the point that you decide not to worry about those things anymore, but it's not a good time to enter into a lasting relationship right now.)

I think not worrying about marriage is a non issue for me... Also, the points/questions that I brought up to Amillia do not worry or stress me - I'm perfectly OK with not knowing them. I was merely throwing them out there, so one could see that we really don't know what's going to happen after this life - I'm not struggling with these issues.

[huma17]

Originally posted by yaanufs+Feb 9 2005, 02:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (yaanufs @ Feb 9 2005, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--huma17@Feb 9 2005, 12:54 PM

Still, 5-6 billion years is a long time to be with someone that isn't the best for you.

You have a serious problem buddy.

you need to sort yourself out. I'm not just talking about religion but your lif in general.

I'm going to try to hold my tongue here...

This is the second board you have attacked me in such a manner, and I don't want to have that kind of exchange with you.

Like I said to Curvette, the things I discussed with Amillia don't need 'sorting out' for me - I don't have issue with them.

Life owes you nothing and you either take what you need or you complain about it on anonymous internet forums.

I'm not sure what you are saying here - is it aimed soley at me (which I assume it is), or is it in general? Besides, I wasn't complaining about those issues, I started this thread because of frustration - I'm OK with it, though.

It is not for your future, perect wife to help you overcome your issues, you need to do it for yourself before you get married.

I wasn't expecting anyone to help me overcome my 'issues', especially not my wife - I was looking for some advice on prayer - which I have received. As to 'before you get married' - non issue.

mistakes men make in choosing innaproriate partners

Who said anything about an inappropriate partner? Besides, are women exempt from these 'mistakes'?

It won't answer all your questions here but it might help you see wallowing in victim status is not healthy for you or your potential future mate.

I wasn't 'wallowing' in anything - I have already moved on in my thinking since I started this thread...I don't know why you see it this way?

[huma17]

Originally posted by pushka@Feb 9 2005, 03:06 PM

I agree that Huma17 is not ready for marriage for either time or eternity yet...he should concentrate on building his life and then finding a woman who appeals to him completely, on all levels...and leave the Time and Eternity issues till later.

It's not your place to say if I'm ready for marriage or not...you don't know me. As I have stated - I didn't/don't have issues with the things I discussed - it was a discussion. I'm far from perfect, but why would you assume that I need to build my life? I had an issue with answers to prayer - certain prayers that is.

[huma17]

Originally posted by pushka@Feb 9 2005, 06:27 PM

Sorry to have gone off the subject here a little Huma17...also, I am very sorry that you had to lose your mother at an early age (I'm assuming you are quite young too...sorry if I'm wrong) and that your father remarrying and all that stuff about being sealed to both women, and both sets of children is so confusing and possibly upsetting to you...this is why I question the validity of the Doctrine...it causes so much heartache and confusion for so many!!!  Why was it made???

I never said that I lost my mother at an early age - I was in my 20's. My dad remarried a couple years ago - he's almost seventy. My siblings who have issue with this are adults who have issues, period. I'm not confused about sealings or marriage, just pointing out that we don't know what's going to happen - I'm fine with not knowing.

And no, I'm not quite young - the '17' after huma has nothing to do with my age.

Thanks for the concern about my mother, though. I was not saddened by it, because I'm OK with death. I miss her, but I was happy to see her go to a better place - no more pain.

[pushka]

Huma17, you are right, I don't know you and yes, I have no place stating whether or not you are ready for marriage yet. I did assume you were 'young', as in early/mid twenties from some of the things that you said, but you have established that I was wrong about that too...I apologise.

I thought, from the way you posted about your mother and father, stepmother and siblings, and what happens when you die, that you sounded confused about it, and that perhaps it was making you unduly worried...I am glad to see that it isn't...you have raised some very interesting questions...thanks!

Amillia, you believe in the whole JS, BY thing, so you will obviously believe that it was correct for them to reestablish polygamy when they did...because you believe that god commanded it of them...that's all right...I choose not to believe it...so I won't cause you to go searching any further for this.

'If the word Kolob was new with JS, it wasn't made up. '(Amillia)....what do you mean by this? I meant that JS must have made up the word...as nobody had ever referred to it before him...and nobody except mormons have ever made reference to it anywhere else either...surely some of the greatest scientific minds in the world's existence would have acknowledged the existence of this planet too, if the mormons believed in it and it really did exist?

[huma17]

Originally posted by pushka@Feb 10 2005, 06:49 PM

Huma17, you are right, I don't know you and yes, I have no place stating whether or not you are ready for marriage yet. I did assume you were 'young', as in early/mid twenties from some of the things that you said, but you have established that I was wrong about that too...I apologise.

I thought, from the way you posted about your mother and father, stepmother and siblings, and what happens when you die, that you sounded confused about it, and that perhaps it was making you unduly worried...I am glad to see that it isn't...you have raised some very interesting questions...thanks!

Thank-you for the apology. I guess I can understand how I was mis-understood, I still need to work on being more clear in my conversations still.

[pushka]

Don't worry about it...you did try to explain in your first post!! :)

[Ray]

Originally posted by pushka@ Feb 10 2005, 05:49 PM

'If the word Kolob was new with JS, it wasn't made up. '(Amillia)....what do you mean by this? I meant that JS must have made up the word...as nobody had ever referred to it before him...and nobody except mormons have ever made reference to it anywhere else either...surely some of the greatest scientific minds in the world's existence would have acknowledged the existence of this planet too, if the mormons believed in it and it really did exist?

How could anyone know whether or not somebody didn’t mention the planet “Kolob” before Joseph Smith Jr. mentioned it? If an Egyptian had mentioned that planet, wouldn’t it be possible for that Egyptian to have used an Egyptian word that could be translated into an English word something other than Kolob? And wouldn’t it be possible for that Egyptian to have mentioned it while, somehow, the mention of it was lost to those who came after him?

And btw, if you don’t realize it, the word Kolob is mentioned in the Book of Abraham, which was written by Abraham through inspiration from our Lord, so it is an error to say that nobody but Joseph Smith Jr. ever mentioned it. You could claim that Joseph’s claim to have received that knowledge from Abraham through our Lord is not true, or try to dismiss the testimony of the Joseph as nothing but unreliable hearsay, but you will have to make that claim yourself and thus make yourself susceptible to being a false witness.

Oh, one more thing. If you do claim that the testimony of Joseph is false and nothing but unreliable hearsay, how would you ever be able to know or prove whether or not ANYTHING that somebody said was revealed by our Lord was actually revealed by our Lord, or not?

Even if you Ask our Heavenly Father if He knows whether or not His son revealed that knowledge to Abraham and Joseph, you would still not obtain that knowledge from our Lord Himself. And just so you know, our Lord has commanded us to pray to our Heavenly Father, not Him, and our Lord rarely speaks to any of us in person.

[pushka]

Originally posted by Ray+Feb 16 2005, 10:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Feb 16 2005, 10:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--pushka@ Feb 10 2005, 05:49 PM

'If the word Kolob was new with JS, it wasn't made up. '(Amillia)....what do you mean by this? I meant that JS must have made up the word...as nobody had ever referred to it before him...and nobody except mormons have ever made reference to it anywhere else either...surely some of the greatest scientific minds in the world's existence would have acknowledged the existence of this planet too, if the mormons believed in it and it really did exist?

How could anyone know whether or not somebody didn’t mention the planet “Kolob” before Joseph Smith Jr. mentioned it? If an Egyptian had mentioned that planet, wouldn’t it be possible for that Egyptian to have used an Egyptian word that could be translated into an English word something other than Kolob? And wouldn’t it be possible for that Egyptian to have mentioned it while, somehow, the mention of it was lost to those who came after him?

And btw, if you don’t realize it, the word Kolob is mentioned in the Book of Abraham, which was written by Abraham through inspiration from our Lord, so it is an error to say that nobody but Joseph Smith Jr. ever mentioned it. You could claim that Joseph’s claim to have received that knowledge from Abraham through our Lord is not true, or try to dismiss the testimony of the Joseph as nothing but unreliable hearsay, but you will have to make that claim yourself and thus make yourself susceptible to being a false witness.

Oh, one more thing. If you do claim that the testimony of Joseph is false and nothing but unreliable hearsay, how would you ever be able to know or prove whether or not ANYTHING that somebody said was revealed by our Lord was actually revealed by our Lord, or not?

Even if you Ask our Heavenly Father if He knows whether or not His son revealed that knowledge to Abraham and Joseph, you would still not obtain that knowledge from our Lord Himself. And just so you know, our Lord has commanded us to pray to our Heavenly Father, not Him, and our Lord rarely speaks to any of us in person.

Yes, I can see that there would have been a possibility of the word Kolob being mentioned at one time and then 'forgotten' until JS and Abraham...in the Book of Abraham (the Mormon 'extra' scripture you mean?).

Of course you are correct that questioning the story of JS and his revelations means that you must also question all the writings of God speaking through prophets...that's what I've been stating as my belief the whole time, that I am unsure of the truthfulness of the Bible even, now that I have heard that it's stories were taken from Sumerian Tablets and translated and retranslated until they became what is now our Bible...it could all be a myth!

I only know that I do not know if anything in any religion is true...I only know that some ways of life that are taught are good, and that I wish to follow them.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Ray@Feb 16 2005, 12:19 PM

Oh, one more thing. If you do claim that the testimony of Joseph is false and nothing but unreliable hearsay, how would you ever be able to know or prove whether or not ANYTHING that somebody said was revealed by our Lord was actually revealed by our Lord, or not?

So Ray, does that mean that you believe anything that anyone says regarding a revelation from God? By your argument, you either accept all of it, or none of it.

What about believing the things that seem plausible?

Just because some freak told me God wants me to eat poisoned applesauce and wrap myself in a purple shroud to die, that doesn't mean I have to believe him. What keeps you from believing everyone's claims to speak with God?

Although that's more extreme than JS's supposed revelation, the same point applies. Besides you praying and being answered by God, what other things lead you to believe that Joseph Smith really had these revelations?

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by pushka@Feb 16 2005, 10:32 AM

I am unsure of the truthfulness of the Bible even, now that I have heard that it's stories were taken from Sumerian Tablets and translated and retranslated until they became what is now our Bible...it could all be a myth!

I don't think you can write off the entire Old Testament as being myth. I think only some of the early stories in Genesis can be tied to the Sumerians (I assume you're talking about the epic of Gilgamesh.) The creation and the Noah story have some striking similarities to the Gilgamesh stories. I think anything post Abraham though is uniquely "Jewish." (for lack of a better word.)

[Ray]

Originally posted by pushka@ Feb 16 2005, 10:32 AM

Yes, I can see that there would have been a possibility of the word Kolob being mentioned at one time and then 'forgotten' until JS and Abraham...in the Book of Abraham (the Mormon 'extra' scripture you mean?).

Yes, the Book of Abraham is part of the Pearl of Great Price, but I wouldn’t go around calling it “extra” scripture. It is simply scripture that some people accept and some people do not, just as some people do or do not accept any other scripture.

Of course you are correct that questioning the story of JS and his revelations means that you must also question all the writings of God speaking through prophets...that's what I've been stating as my belief the whole time, that I am unsure of the truthfulness of the Bible even, now that I have heard that it's stories were taken from Sumerian Tablets and translated and retranslated until they became what is now our Bible...it could all be a myth!-boldness added by Ray

Could be? Yes, and while that is an honest statement, it is not a very likely possibility. Take all the time it will take you to figure that out, and I am sure that you will someday come to the conclusion that you cannot figure out what is true and what is not all by yourself. If you are honest at heart, as you appear to be, you will someday realize that you must Ask of God, seeking wisdom from Him, realizing that you don’t have enough wisdom yourself to be able to know for sure what is true and what is not. At this point I will simply commend you for being able to recognize the idea that you should not simply accept what other people tell you is true, and I think that is where you are right now in your quest for knowledge.

I only know that I do not know if anything in any religion is true...I only know that some ways of life that are taught are good, and that I wish to follow them.

I also commend you for this, because being able to live a good life is the ultimate purpose for searching for the good knowledge you will need to guide you. Couple this idea with Faith, realizing that you must Seek God’s influence to help you know what is good and what is not, and you will have the perfect recipe for righteousness. Otherwise you may not know what is right and what is wrong until you find out the hard way by doing something you will wish you had never done.

[pushka]

Thank you Ray...I will bear your tips in mind, and will try my best to avoid accidentally doing something which I will later regret...although, I believe that religions in general do teach that you will be forgiven if you are truly sorry for something that you have done...:)

I'm sorry that I referred to the BofA as 'extra' scripture...I was speaking as an non-LDS stating that it was extra to the Bible...

I appreciate your persistence in asking me to seek guidance from God in order to know the truth, and I thank you for this...again I will bear this in mind in case I do feel an overwhelming desire to know the truth at a later date...

Shanstress70, that was a good comment regarding whether or not Ray had any other means of knowing that the JS visions etc. were true...

[Ray]

Ray: Oh, one more thing. If you do claim that the testimony of Joseph is false and nothing but unreliable hearsay, how would you ever be able to know or prove whether or not ANYTHING that somebody said was revealed by our Lord was actually revealed by our Lord, or not?

Shanstress: So Ray, does that mean that you believe anything that anyone says regarding a revelation from God?

No, I don’t believe a revelation has come from God unless I have received a testimony from God that the revelation was from God, and a testimony from the Holy Ghost telling me that Jesus did or said something is good enough for me because I know my Heavenly Father would not answer my prayer by sending the Holy Ghost to tell me a lie.

Shanstress: By your argument, you either accept all of it, or none of it.

Yes, that’s right, I accept all revelation from God that I know is revelation from God.

Shanstress: Besides you praying and being answered by God, what other things lead you to believe that Joseph Smith really had these revelations?

Heh, as if an answer from God shouldn’t be good enough to prove it to me?

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Ray@Feb 16 2005, 03:48 PM

Heh, as if an answer from God shouldn't be good enough to prove it to me?

Which brings me to the realization that this is exactly why we have so many different religions...

I prayed to God, and He told me that the LDS church is NOT true, but steered me in another direction.

Perhaps the weirdo that I spoke of earlier prayed and believed that he got assurance from God that he should direct his followers to kill themselves and for him to kill himself.

And you say God told you that the LDS church IS true.

Some Muslims would swear to you that God told them their religion is the only true one.

I guess that all we can do is respect each others' beliefs, since we all believe/know that we are correct, huh?

I think it's very interesting to hear about all these different beliefs. Guess that's why I belong to several message boards of different denominations.

[Ray]

If you can come to grips with the idea that God will not tell someone that something is true and then turn around and tell someone else that the exact same thing in the same exact circumstance is not true, you should realize that not every supposed revelation from God has come from God. As I have said, the mystery (of godliness) is in being able to discern which thoughts, or feelings, or revelations, have come from God and which have not. Sometimes it’s simply a matter of determining how different revelations from God can agree and harmonize with other revelations from God.

Btw, if you claim to have received some revelations from God, I am interested in hearing about them. If those revelations have come from God, I will expect them to somehow agree with the revelations that I have received from God. If they don’t agree with the revelations that I have received, then one of us has been deceived and I will let God be the judge of that.

In other words, I am so certain and sure of my position that I am ready and willing to face God with the knowledge and understanding that I have, and if you are just as certain and sure of your position, we have nothing left to do but see the Judge and hear what He says.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Ray@Feb 16 2005, 05:36 PM

If they don't agree with the revelations that I have received, then one of us has been deceived and I will let God be the judge of that.

Exactly - that is all anyone can do!

[Ray]

Just keep in mind that we will be judged for our ACTIONS, and not what we know, although the more we know the better off we’re likely to be, as long as we live up to what we know. :)

And btw, our Lord and our Heavenly Father won’t be fooled by anybody playing dumb, no matter how good of an actor or actress somebody thinks they can be, so I hope nobody goes around thinking they can get away with that with Them.

[pushka]

Originally posted by Ray@Feb 16 2005, 03:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]In other words, I am so certain and sure of my position that I am ready and willing to face God with the knowledge and understanding that I have, and if you are just as certain and sure of your position, we have nothing left to do but see the Judge and hear what He says.[ /QUOTE ]

As are so many millions around the world regarding their faith...I'm sure that someone who believes so strongly that their church is the true one wouldn't be trying to deceive God that they know it isn't the true church really, and that they have just chosen to follow that one and ignored the true one...if that's what you are getting at!

[Ray]

I'm sure that someone who believes so strongly that their church is the true one wouldn't be trying to deceive God that they know it isn't the true church really, and that they have just chosen to follow that one and ignored the true one...if that's what you are getting at!

No, that wasn’t what I was getting at. My comments weren’t directed at anyone in particular, I was simply stating that there are some people on this planet who think they will be able to claim that they really didn’t know what they should do because there is so much confusion about what the true church is or what the true teachings are that God wants them to accept and live by, and while that argument may seem reasonable to some of us here on this Earth, God knows whether or not we know something is right or wrong and He will hold us accountable for doing something we knew to be wrong.

In other words, we may be able to fool some people with that argument, and we may even be able to be fool ourselves, but God knows what we know and He will hold us accountable for everything we have done if we don't Repent and have Faith in Jesus Christ.

Btw, if you don’t already know it, Faith and Repentance are my most favorite subjects to talk about, or in other words, the message I now consider to be the most valuable message I can give to my fellow man.

And btw, in regards to a comment you made earlier, pushka, God doesn’t want us to merely feel sorry for the bad things we have done. He wants us to Repent, which means to stop doing the bad things we know we should not be doing.

[pushka]

Originally posted by Ray@Feb 16 2005, 04:58 PM

I'm sure that someone who believes so strongly that their church is the true one wouldn't be trying to deceive God that they know it isn't the true church really, and that they have just chosen to follow that one and ignored the true one...if that's what you are getting at!

No, that wasn’t what I was getting at. My comments weren’t directed at anyone in particular, I was simply stating that there are some people on this planet who think they will be able to claim that they really didn’t know what they should do because there is so much confusion about what the true church is or what the true teachings are that God wants them to accept and live by, and while that argument may seem reasonable to some of us here on this Earth, God knows whether or not we know something is right or wrong and He will hold us accountable for doing something we knew to be wrong.

In other words, we may be able to fool some people with that argument, and we may even be able to be fool ourselves, but God knows what we know and He will hold us accountable for everything we have done if we don't Repent and have Faith in Jesus Christ.

Btw, if you don’t already know it, Faith and Repentance are my most favorite subjects to talk about, or in other words, the message I now consider to be the most valuable message I can give to my fellow man.

And btw, in regards to a comment you made earlier, pushka, God doesn’t want us to merely feel sorry for the bad things we have done. He wants us to Repent, which means to stop doing the bad things we know we should not be doing.

Ray! I think, for once, I agree entirely with your post!!! LOL.

Regarding the repentance part of feeling sorry for sins committed, yes I agree that you must also stop what you are doing once you realise it is wrong and have said sorry for it...I just took it for granted that you knew that was what I meant!!! :)

[Ray]

Originally posted by pushka+Feb 16 2005, 05:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pushka @ Feb 16 2005, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Feb 16 2005, 04:58 PM

I'm sure that someone who believes so strongly that their church is the true one wouldn't be trying to deceive God that they know it isn't the true church really, and that they have just chosen to follow that one and ignored the true one...if that's what you are getting at!

No, that wasn’t what I was getting at. My comments weren’t directed at anyone in particular, I was simply stating that there are some people on this planet who think they will be able to claim that they really didn’t know what they should do because there is so much confusion about what the true church is or what the true teachings are that God wants them to accept and live by, and while that argument may seem reasonable to some of us here on this Earth, God knows whether or not we know something is right or wrong and He will hold us accountable for doing something we knew to be wrong.

In other words, we may be able to fool some people with that argument, and we may even be able to be fool ourselves, but God knows what we know and He will hold us accountable for everything we have done if we don't Repent and have Faith in Jesus Christ.

Btw, if you don’t already know it, Faith and Repentance are my most favorite subjects to talk about, or in other words, the message I now consider to be the most valuable message I can give to my fellow man.

And btw, in regards to a comment you made earlier, pushka, God doesn’t want us to merely feel sorry for the bad things we have done. He wants us to Repent, which means to stop doing the bad things we know we should not be doing.

Ray! I think, for once, I agree entirely with your post!!! LOL.

Regarding the repentance part of feeling sorry for sins committed, yes I agree that you must also stop what you are doing once you realise it is wrong and have said sorry for it...I just took it for granted that you knew that was what I meant!!! :)

Some of the most wonderful feelings I’ve ever felt have come after talking with someone while knowing that we both know and understand the truth concerning what we have been talking about.

It’s my pleasure to have talked with you, pushka. :)

[pushka]

Thank you Ray, it's been a pleasure for me too!

Now...onto the next argument...LOL

[Ray]

Just so you know, I won't be on this board again for a while, but don't go thinking that I'm ignoring you. :)

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Ray@Feb 16 2005, 05:00 PM

Just keep in mind that we will be judged for our ACTIONS, and not what we know, although the more we know the better off we’re likely to be, as long as we live up to what we know. :)

And btw, our Lord and our Heavenly Father won’t be fooled by anybody playing dumb, no matter how good of an actor or actress somebody thinks they can be, so I hope nobody goes around thinking they can get away with that with Them.

Our hearts. They will be what condemns or exalts us.