Homosexuality Is Normal

[Cal]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 13 2004, 06:46 AM

TR2--who cares? They make up such a small percent of the population in almost any group (5 to 10% in humans) that it has little impact on survival of the species.

Of course, it is POSSIBLE, they just don't seem to enjoy the method the rest of us use. On another point, it is evident that homosexuals can be nurturing and loving parents (or caretakers) and there is no surplus of those in the world.

So in other words you have no other debate other than that it is on a small scale? I said homosexuality leads to extinction, I never said it will cause it. How far it leads to extinction is not very far, I agree, but this point is not debatable.

So have we determined that homosexuals cannot reproduce, thus cannot further the species, thus goes against the principles of evolution (which is nothing more than a species making itself stronger). Therefore it is NOT natural.

Homosexuality doesn't fit into evolution and it doesn't fit into the bible. Where does it fit in?

TR2--if it is SOOO unnatural, then how do you explain its existance in numerous other species, like Chimpanzees"? Didn't you read my other post?

Your argument is superfluous---clearly homosexuality has very little, if any effect on the propagation of species. On top of that, it IS a perfectly natural occurance that is clearly genetically influenced--the Minnesota Twin studies proved that beyond much doubt. So why do you keep bashing your head against the wall of fact.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 13 2004, 06:46 AM

TR2--who cares? They make up such a small percent of the population in almost any group (5 to 10% in humans) that it has little impact on survival of the species.

Of course, it is POSSIBLE, they just don't seem to enjoy the method the rest of us use. On another point, it is evident that homosexuals can be nurturing and loving parents (or caretakers) and there is no surplus of those in the world.

So in other words you have no other debate other than that it is on a small scale? I said homosexuality leads to extinction, I never said it will cause it. How far it leads to extinction is not very far, I agree, but this point is not debatable.

So have we determined that homosexuals cannot reproduce, thus cannot further the species, thus goes against the principles of evolution (which is nothing more than a species making itself stronger). Therefore it is NOT natural.

Homosexuality doesn't fit into evolution and it doesn't fit into the bible. Where does it fit in?

Regarding, "fitting in"----I cut my hair, I trim my fingernails, I wear funky clothes, I drive a car, I do LOTS of things that don't "fit in" to survival of the species. There are lots of behaviors that are idioscycratic to individuals and have little value to survival--should they also be condemned as SINFUL?

As to the Bible---you assume I have this great respect for the opinions of a bunch of primative know-nothings! As far as the Bible's mention of homosexuality, and the references are few, IMO it represents the prejudices of their authors; and apprently we haven't made much progress since in our education on the subject, according to you.

[Tr2]

Regarding, "fitting in"----I cut my hair, I trim my fingernails, I wear funky clothes, I drive a car, I do LOTS of things that don't "fit in" to survival of the species. There are lots of behaviors that are idioscycratic to individuals and have little value to survival--should they also be condemned as SINFUL?

Please show me where in the bible homosexuality is considered to be ok's by God. So because I do not accept an unhealthy lifestyle I am primitive?

if it is SOOO unnatural, then how do you explain its existance in numerous other species, like Chimpanzees"?

I have read about many animals doing very strange things in extreme circumstances. Are we condiering everything that goes on in the animal kingdom to be natural and normal? I once read about a jackal trying to kill a full grown lion so it could eat, it that natural, or a very extreme circumstance?

[elinz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but up to this point in time there is no

solid evidence that genetics can be associated with homosexuality.

There are people trying to connect the dots, but it's still too early.

You simply cannot use genetics as a basis for proof, yet.

I might have missed this, but no one has mentioned the Spartans.

The ancient Spartans practiced mandatory homosexuality for

males when the males were young. An older male was hooked

up with a younger male. At maturity, the boy becomes a man

and is reassigned (married) to a female and he is expected to

continue this way. He will then become eligible for more man/boy

stuff as the man.

Pretty weird culture, I know, but the point here is that the culture

molded everyone to behave the way they were supposed to.

Homosexuality doesn't exclusively exist in nature. Different

monkey species have different patterns of social relationships.

Many species have young monkeys learn sex as male/male and

then at maturity they become interested in dominance. (and females)

Polygamy is actually the ultimate expression of super masculine

behavior because it demonstrates the desire to control the entire

group.

So in a sense, the weakest spirit is homosexual and the strongest

desires polygamy. (life spirit anyway, the homosexual can be very

good at evil and the destruction of the weaker male)

I'm not advocating polygamy, but it does say something about

the spiritual strength of someone.

Oh, Hello, this is my first posting.

P.S: I'm not into polygamy myself.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by antishock82003+Feb 13 2004, 06:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (antishock82003 @ Feb 13 2004, 06:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Paul Osborne@Feb 11 2004, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by -antishock82003@Feb 11 2004, 07:32 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Feb 11 2004, 07:25 PM

Cal,

Can homosexuals reproduce?

Duh....of course they can. All they have to do is have sex with the opposite sex silly.

Why would they want to do that? Wouldn't they get grossed out?

Paul O

I don't know. How would you explain that homosexuals have been around since ancient times. It's either a natural behavior inherent to our species, or they're passing on their homo-genes through reproduction. I tend to think that it just comes naturally to a certain percentage of humans.

Satan and his gillions of demonic angels have been around that long as well. Hasn't it occurred to anyone that if a female demon possessed a guy that he would totally become feminant? And if a male demon possessed a girl that she would totally become masculin? And in so doing, would be having those desires towards the demons opposite sex....which would happen to be the hosts same sex?

[bat3]

Originally posted by Peace@Feb 14 2004, 11:22 PM

Satan and his gillions of demonic angels have been around that long as well. Hasn't it occurred to anyone that if a female demon possessed a guy that he would totally become feminant? And if a male demon possessed a girl that she would totally become masculin? And in so doing, would having those desires as well?

What about if an ice breathing robot were to posess a fire breathing dragon, underwater, during a lunar eclipse? Maybe that is what makes people be homoosexual. And what about if a man is going to be reincarnated as a female platypus in the next life? That could explain it as well. Thanks for the wisdom, Peace.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by bat3+Feb 14 2004, 10:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bat3 @ Feb 14 2004, 10:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Feb 14 2004, 11:22 PM

Satan and his gillions of demonic angels have been around that long as well. Hasn't it occurred to anyone that if a female demon possessed a guy that he would totally become feminant? And if a male demon possessed a girl that she would totally become masculin? And in so doing, would having those desires as well?

What about if an ice breathing robot were to posess a fire breathing dragon, underwater, during a lunar eclipse? Maybe that is what makes people be homoosexual. And what about if a man is going to be reincarnated as a female platypus in the next life? That could explain it as well. Thanks for the wisdom, Peace.

Well....your welcome. Though I don't think your ideas were as plausable.

[elinz]

Anyone want to bite on my posting?

Homosexuality seems (from historical evidence) to be a

learned behavior. The Spartans actually had both types

of sex.

The "gay gene" idea does not have solid evidence yet

and is best described as an early stage scientific theory.

(and I'm a subscriber to Scientific American)

Basically, most homosexual behaviors have to do

with addiction to a pattern of behavior.

People smoke and can't seem to quit, why expect

homosexuals to be able to quit with ease?

It would be very difficult to beat that addiction!

The proper view should be that they are sad fools

that are trapped in a really bad sin and it's really

only when they try to make it "cool" that we need

to step in and point this out. (one might recall

that smoking was once fashionable)

All this "gay gene" stuff is probably not valid.

(it might be 10-20 years before we know for sure)

Science does not support the "gay gene" argument! B)

[elinz]

And let me add.

People point to the fact that homosexuality has always existed.

True.

Have alcoholics always existed? Yeah.

Are there plenty of smokers? Yeah.

Do people commit adultery and murder? Yeah.

So what's so confusing here?

Why don't we simply accept homosexuality as yet another

bad decision? Why attempt to give it a separate life other

than the normal life?

In a sense:

"Homosexuality is the great MYTH of our age"

(unless one day a "gay gene" is proven... but don't hold your breath )

[Paul Osborne]

elinz,

I don't agree with you. Why would any man or boy for that matter want to get it on with another man here in our free society? You tell me why a man would want to do it with another man instead of a woman. And why is it that they are not aroused when they see a woman's naked body?

Details, please.

Paul O

[elinz]

Because regular sex might involve messy complications

like children.

As long as the person believes that they can do it

without anyone knowing they will give it a try.

It's the forbidden "fruit" ( ) argument.

Not that difficult to imagine!

[Guest antishock82003]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 15 2004, 07:16 AM

Anyone want to bite on my posting?

Homosexuality seems (from historical evidence) to be a

learned behavior. The Spartans actually had both types

of sex.

The "gay gene" idea does not have solid evidence yet

and is best described as an early stage scientific theory.

(and I'm a subscriber to Scientific American)

Basically, most homosexual behaviors have to do

with addiction to a pattern of behavior.

People smoke and can't seem to quit, why expect

homosexuals to be able to quit with ease?

It would be very difficult to beat that addiction!

The proper view should be that they are sad fools

that are trapped in a really bad sin and it's really

only when they try to make it "cool" that we need

to step in and point this out. (one might recall

that smoking was once fashionable)

All this "gay gene" stuff is probably not valid.

(it might be 10-20 years before we know for sure)

Science does not support the "gay gene" argument! B)

Why would you equate a sexual act between consenting adults with murder?

[elinz]

Ah, the lawyer comes out.

I had a stepfather that was a great lawyer. He

taught me a great deal about screwing with the

words of an argument so as to divert attention

from their true meaning.

If I took the bait, the focus would shift.

Nice try. But you'll have to do better!

[Behunin]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 15 2004, 09:01 AM

Ah, the lawyer comes out.

I had a stepfather that was a great lawyer. He

taught me a great deal about screwing with the

words of an argument so as to divert attention

from their true meaning.

If I took the bait, the focus would shift.

Nice try. But you'll have to do better!

Oh I really like you. Where have you been?

By the way, Welcome elinz! I am glad your here! :)

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Peace+Feb 7 2004, 05:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Feb 7 2004, 05:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--HalleysComet@Feb 7 2004, 05:09 PM

WHOA! Ok,first of all the majority of my friends are gay and bisexual. Secondly,thought I don't condone their behavior I do not consider them an error of God's works or errors at all. They are people,just like you and I and who are we to call anyone anything less. Are we that self righteous that we can call people mistakes? God doesn't make mistakes and if he did I'd be one of his biggest ones and I know this for a fact so how dare any of us belittle anyone else for their life choices. Christ himself died on a cross to forgive us of our sins and to allow us the gift of free will and the ability to make our own choices. They are not errors,mistakes,freaks of nature,they are human beings with emotions,fears and desires and the want to be loved by others and accepted as people and treated as we ourselves would like to be treated. And that my friends comes straight from the board blonde.

Halley

Maybe their genetics have mistakes in them....When a child is born without arms (and they now know taking certain kinds of drugs during pregnancy can cause such an outcome predictably) then having gay tendacies can also be caused by chemical mess ups.

When I was pregnant with my oldest, I read a study which proved that either taking too much zinc during pregnacy or too little would produce gay rats. I can't remember which)

Now if someone wanted to create a gay race, all they would have to do is make sure there was the 'gay amount' of zinc in pre-natal viatamins.

I do believe in conspiracies of this nature. Thus the great explosion of gays in our society since pre-natal vitamins became all the rage back in the 40s.

All I can say about your "conspiracy theory" here, Peace is:

<span style=\'color:red\'>CRIMINY SAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pull your head out of your, um, I mean, pull your head out of the SAND, woman and get a grip!

Your mother must have eaten a "dumb amount" of SOMETHING when pregnant with YOU, you silly!

Please enlighten us, who or what group would conspire to create a "gay race" using X amount of zinc in pre-natal vitamins? And for what reason, pray tell. . . .

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by AFDaw@Feb 7 2004, 07:05 PM

I dunno...does he? Do you HONESTLY think anyone on this board knows that to a certaintity? I mean, everyone on the board can't even agree on whether or not he creates gay people, much less animals.

Well, a lot of you seem to "know" a lot about god and his ways and plans and ideas and actions, 'n stuff. Why don't you know this too, eh?

Or, is it possible that no-one KNOWS anything at all about god because he doesn't exist except in the mind of the believer? Thus, god can be (and usually is) exactly the kind of god the believer wants to believe in?

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by antishock82003@Feb 7 2004, 08:09 PM

Why do you think those two males penguins hatched an egg, raised the baby penguin, rejected female pendguins, and professed their affections to each other?  Was it nature, or did something change them into homosexual penguins?

Maybe they were sexually traumatized by an older gay penguin and that caused it.

Maybe their mothers were fed the correct amount of zinc to produce gay babies.

Maybe they had a bad relationship with their parents, the mother was overbearing and over protective, the father weak.

Maybe SATAN was able to tempt them.

Maybe they were possessed by demonic angels of the opposite sex (nod to Peace here, thanks)

Maybe they simply found what they were looking for in a companion and what sort of genitals they had didn't matter to them.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Paul Osborne+Feb 8 2004, 09:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Paul Osborne @ Feb 8 2004, 09:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--curvette@Feb 7 2004, 10:57 PM

AS:  I think we should send those penguins to BYU where they can receive shock therapy to reorient themselves to 'normal" penguin sexual behavior.  They will be shown pornographic gay penguin movies and receive shocks when they become aroused.  This will make homosexual penguin behavior repulsive to them and then maybe they'll start looking twice when a she penguin shakes her tail feathers at them.

Those poor educated fools at BYU just didn't understand what they were up against. It's funny to look back and see how people can be so dumb.

Paul o

Probably not very funny for the poor young men who were traumatized by this so -called "treatment". I am sure they bear the emotional scars of it still today.

Stupid people doing stupid things, to young men who are simply being themselves. tsk tsk tsk

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Peace+Feb 8 2004, 11:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Feb 8 2004, 11:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--curvette@Feb 7 2004, 10:57 PM

AS:  I think we should send those penguins to BYU where they can receive shock therapy to reorient themselves to 'normal" penguin sexual behavior.  They will be shown pornographic gay penguin movies and receive shocks when they become aroused.  This will make homosexual penguin behavior repulsive to them and then maybe they'll start looking twice when a she penguin shakes her tail feathers at them.

LOL

Do you really think this is funny? I know of a man who went through the BYU aversion "therapy" way back when. It was a horrible and humiliating thing that they did to him. It was akin to rape, IMNSHO. Thankfully, his family finally realized what was happening (he was 22 at the time, so no family permission was required for this) and yanked him out of BYU and took him home and put him into private professional counseling. He now lives a happy life, with supportive friends and family, and with his long-time companion. He is still gay, of course, gay as the day he was born.

He and his partner are going to San Francisco tomorrow so they can get married there before they stop issuing licenses on Tuesday. :)

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 8 2004, 09:00 PM

Evolution is formed on the principle of a species making itself stronger to survive. Homosexuality prevents a species from reproducing, thus halting its progress. If you want to kill all life, make it all homosexual. Am I wrong?

I'm just going to wait for you to disagree with me. I think you hate me so much you'll say anything to disagree. If I said shooting yourself wouldn't hurt, would you try and prove me wrong?

You misunderstand evolution. It is not survival of the STRONGEST or the best, it is survival of the FITTEST. That is, those most FITTED to survive if/when current environmental conditions change. Thus, it is not an ever ascending ladder to the top, but more like a bushy shrub with many branches and twigs.

Reproduction of EACH individual is not the goal, nor is it the norm throughout the animal kingdom. One example is in wolf packs. Only the Alpha male and female can mate and produce young (Alpha females will take for their own any pups birthed by any lower ranking female if any are produced) and the other adult wolves in the pack, usually sisters of the Alpha female or grown up previous offspring, help to raise the pups by helping to guard and feed them. Most adult wolves will never produce young of their own, but will live to see their closest genetic relatives reproduce, which is the next best thing to do.

So, the argument that the goal is for EACH AND EVERY AND ALL individuals to reproduce is false and a misunderstanding of what reproduction realyl is all about. Homosexuality may actually help insure that young will survive, if it promotes more adult care for any young produced. In other words, if mom and dad have babies, and uncle and "uncle" can't, but love children, esp. their neices and nephews, they can be a huge asset for mom and dad to draw upon in providing love, nurture, and care in raising those precious genetic packages to adulthood.

Capiche? This would only work if uncle and 'uncle" are part of the family and not ostracized and repudiated, not seen as perverted or abnormal, or as Peace so eloquntly put it, as "freaks". So, it is societal stigmatization of homosexuality that is the real threat to reproduction of the species. Who are we to fly in the face of Mother Nature and go against what she has wrought? If it's good enough for her, it's good enough for me.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Peace+Feb 10 2004, 09:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Feb 10 2004, 09:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Feb 10 2004, 09:14 PM

I guess you meant that as hurtful...so I gave you the obligatory 'cry' of pain. LOL

No I was just stating the fact that you and a past psych. patient of mine, who had chemical dysfunctions in his brain, think alike.

Your no is a lie and <span style=\'font-family:Geneva\'>OUCH! again!

Remember Peace: Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words will never hurt me. (best sung in a sing-songy manner)

Repeat as needed.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Snow+Feb 10 2004, 09:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Feb 10 2004, 09:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Feb 10 2004, 05:50 PM

Actually, homosexuality is widespread in the animal kingdom.

My personal favorite argument.

Hey, a monkey eats his own feces so you know it has to be natural. Good thinking!

Heck I know that some folks in alternative medicine circles drink their own morning urine hot, fresh, and steamy. Yum!

Your point was?

Humans ARE animals. I am not offended by this thought. Some of the best friends and companions I have ever known are or were animals. Some animals are truly great, humans included.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 13 2004, 06:46 AM

TR2--who cares? They make up such a small percent of the population in almost any group (5 to 10% in humans) that it has little impact on survival of the species.

Of course, it is POSSIBLE, they just don't seem to enjoy the method the rest of us use. On another point, it is evident that homosexuals can be nurturing and loving parents (or caretakers) and there is no surplus of those in the world.

So in other words you have no other debate other than that it is on a small scale? I said homosexuality leads to extinction, I never said it will cause it. How far it leads to extinction is not very far, I agree, but this point is not debatable.

So have we determined that homosexuals cannot reproduce, thus cannot further the species, thus goes against the principles of evolution (which is nothing more than a species making itself stronger). Therefore it is NOT natural.

Homosexuality doesn't fit into evolution and it doesn't fit into the bible. Where does it fit in?

I hope you read my previous post, dude. I think my line of reasoning trumps yours. Neener neener neener

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Peace+Feb 14 2004, 10:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Feb 14 2004, 10:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -antishock82003@Feb 13 2004, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by -Paul Osborne@Feb 11 2004, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by -antishock82003@Feb 11 2004, 07:32 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Feb 11 2004, 07:25 PM

Cal,

Can homosexuals reproduce?

Duh....of course they can. All they have to do is have sex with the opposite sex silly.

Why would they want to do that? Wouldn't they get grossed out?

Paul O

I don't know. How would you explain that homosexuals have been around since ancient times. It's either a natural behavior inherent to our species, or they're passing on their homo-genes through reproduction. I tend to think that it just comes naturally to a certain percentage of humans.

Satan and his gillions of demonic angels have been around that long as well. Hasn't it occurred to anyone that if a female demon possessed a guy that he would totally become feminant? And if a male demon possessed a girl that she would totally become masculin? And in so doing, would be having those desires towards the demons opposite sex....which would happen to be the hosts same sex?

OMIGOD, PEACE! Thanks SO MUCH for this precious titbit! It had actually NEVER OCCURRED to me to think about the demonic angel possession angle before! It truly does go far towards 'splainin things 'n stuff. Sho 'nuff seems plenty clear to me now. . . . .sheesh, wonder why I never thought of this before . . . . . . .mebbe it's cuz I am a sinner and apostate and don't gots the spirit in me anymo. . . . . . sigh. . . . . . .

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by bizabra+Feb 15 2004, 09:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Feb 15 2004, 09:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Peace@Feb 7 2004, 05:15 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--HalleysComet@Feb 7 2004, 05:09 PM

WHOA! Ok,first of all the majority of my friends are gay and bisexual. Secondly,thought I don't condone their behavior I do not consider them an error of God's works or errors at all. They are people,just like you and I and who are we to call anyone anything less. Are we that self righteous that we can call people mistakes? God doesn't make mistakes and if he did I'd be one of his biggest ones and I know this for a fact so how dare any of us belittle anyone else for their life choices. Christ himself died on a cross to forgive us of our sins and to allow us the gift of free will and the ability to make our own choices. They are not errors,mistakes,freaks of nature,they are human beings with emotions,fears and desires and the want to be loved by others and accepted as people and treated as we ourselves would like to be treated. And that my friends comes straight from the board blonde.

Halley

Maybe their genetics have mistakes in them....When a child is born without arms (and they now know taking certain kinds of drugs during pregnancy can cause such an outcome predictably) then having gay tendacies can also be caused by chemical mess ups.

When I was pregnant with my oldest, I read a study which proved that either taking too much zinc during pregnacy or too little would produce gay rats. I can't remember which)

Now if someone wanted to create a gay race, all they would have to do is make sure there was the 'gay amount' of zinc in pre-natal viatamins.

I do believe in conspiracies of this nature. Thus the great explosion of gays in our society since pre-natal vitamins became all the rage back in the 40s.

All I can say about your "conspiracy theory" here, Peace is:

<span style=\'color:red\'>CRIMINY SAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pull your head out of your, um, I mean, pull your head out of the SAND, woman and get a grip!

Your mother must have eaten a "dumb amount" of SOMETHING when pregnant with YOU, you silly!

Please enlighten us, who or what group would conspire to create a "gay race" using X amount of zinc in pre-natal vitamins? And for what reason, pray tell. . . .

Actually Biz,

You are the one with your head in the sand. Maybe you are still young and neive...so I won't take offense at your "loud" and off centered post.