Need A Little Help

[Maureen]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 19 2005, 09:59 AM

Technically, Mormons are't totally opposed to the idea that those on the "other side" are working for our behalf. I recall a Mormon hymn speaking about Joseph Smith that says: "Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero again. Praise to his memory, he died as a martyr; Honored and blest be his ever great name! Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins, Plead unto heaven while the earth lauds his fame.

My niece believes everyone has a smidgen of OCD and this request shows mine. Jason, if you edit your post to delete that bracketed quote you will have the loveliest post.

M.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Outshined+Mar 3 2005, 03:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Outshined @ Mar 3 2005, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Maureen@Mar 3 2005, 04:01 PM

the person who started WhyProphets, is he not an ex-Mormon now?

I believe he gave up all religious belief; he fell prey to the "try to prove it" syndrome I mentioned earlier.

After just having slogged through Whyprophets reams of dreck (you so thoughtfully posted, A) the thought of him leaving THE CHURCH after he tried to "prove it" made me laugh and laugh and laugh!

thanks! It made my day, somehow. :)

[Amillia]

Originally posted by bizabra+Apr 19 2005, 12:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Apr 19 2005, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Outshined@Mar 3 2005, 03:54 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Maureen@Mar 3 2005, 04:01 PM

the person who started WhyProphets, is he not an ex-Mormon now?

I believe he gave up all religious belief; he fell prey to the "try to prove it" syndrome I mentioned earlier.

After just having slogged through Whyprophets reams of dreck (you so thoughtfully posted, A) the thought of him leaving THE CHURCH after he tried to "prove it" made me laugh and laugh and laugh!

thanks! It made my day, somehow. :)

Maybe you shouldn't have 'slopped' through it. It always seems the way though , doesn't it? Those that slop through things expect to have the same insight as those who search ponder and pray....

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Amillia@Apr 19 2005, 08:29 AM

So, I totally disagree with your understanding of both the BofM and the Temple....in the historical and modern experiences.

Just what is it you think my understanding of the BoM is? I don't recall ever saying.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Jenda+Apr 19 2005, 07:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Apr 19 2005, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Apr 19 2005, 08:29 AM

So, I totally disagree with your understanding of both the BofM and the Temple....in the historical and modern experiences.

Just what is it you think my understanding of the BoM is? I don't recall ever saying.

That Brigham Young didn't leave the BofM in the dust as you suggested. He taught many of it's precepts and more. He was a teacher of the higher laws which were found in both the temple and the BofM. Not to mention he sent missionaries all over the world with the BofM.

What exactly should he have done differently? You do remember that most of his presidency was plagued with the work of starting a new community in the desert, with the opposition of the American Government constantly dogging his every effort....

[Dale]

Hi,

Brigham Young is dead now & he should be left alone. His mistakes are between him & God.

Sincerely,

Dale

[Jenda]

Brigham Young doesn't enter my thoughts one bit when I think of the BoM. You need to find a way to separate the BoM from the LDS church because the two are not synonyous. If they were, there would be only one church that accepted and used the BoM. So please, don't confuse the two.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Jenda@Apr 19 2005, 10:12 PM

Brigham Young doesn't enter my thoughts one bit when I think of the BoM. You need to find a way to separate the BoM from the LDS church because the two are not synonyous. If they were, there would be only one church that accepted and used the BoM. So please, don't confuse the two.

Who are you addressing?

[Dale]

Hi,

Jenda the Lord has blessed LDS missionary efforts using the Book of Mormon. Perhaps God overlooks areas where the LDS are wrong. I recieved a universal testimony of the book given to all sincere readers of the book. The book is a very Christ loving book. All faiths can be wrong. Nobody is synonemous with the Book of Mormon. Everybody who believes in it shares the book which is meant for everyone.

Sincerely,

Dale

[john doe]

Originally posted by Jenda@Apr 19 2005, 09:12 PM

Brigham Young doesn't enter my thoughts one bit when I think of the BoM. You need to find a way to separate the BoM from the LDS church because the two are not synonyous. If they were, there would be only one church that accepted and used the BoM. So please, don't confuse the two.

Yet the LDS church is securely tied to the BoM. Ask anyone who knows anything about the LDS what the differences are between us and other churches, and they will tell you about our belief in the BoM. Sure, there are other churches that teach from it and some others that even believe in its truthfulness, including one notable Baptist minmistry in Mo., but they are small in numbers when compared to the LDS. The BoM is one of the main things that sets us apart in the minds of other churches. To separate the LDS church from the BoM would be impossible in my mind. You won't see one without the other when investigating either one.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by john doe+Apr 19 2005, 11:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (john doe @ Apr 19 2005, 11:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Apr 19 2005, 09:12 PM

Brigham Young doesn't enter my thoughts one bit when I think of the BoM.  You need to find a way to separate the BoM from the LDS church because the two are not synonyous.  If they were, there would be only one church that accepted and used the BoM.  So please, don't confuse the two.

Yet the LDS church is securely tied to the BoM. Ask anyone who knows anything about the LDS what the differences are between us and other churches, and they will tell you about our belief in the BoM. Sure, there are other churches that teach from it and some others that even believe in its truthfulness, including one notable Baptist minmistry in Mo., but they are small in numbers when compared to the LDS. The BoM is one of the main things that sets us apart in the minds of other churches. To separate the LDS church from the BoM would be impossible in my mind. You won't see one without the other when investigating either one.

Exactly! ~ hence the name "MORMONS"! :)

[Jenda]

Originally posted by john doe+Apr 19 2005, 10:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (john doe @ Apr 19 2005, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Apr 19 2005, 09:12 PM

Brigham Young doesn't enter my thoughts one bit when I think of the BoM.  You need to find a way to separate the BoM from the LDS church because the two are not synonyous.  If they were, there would be only one church that accepted and used the BoM.  So please, don't confuse the two.

Yet the LDS church is securely tied to the BoM. Ask anyone who knows anything about the LDS what the differences are between us and other churches, and they will tell you about our belief in the BoM. Sure, there are other churches that teach from it and some others that even believe in its truthfulness, including one notable Baptist minmistry in Mo., but they are small in numbers when compared to the LDS. The BoM is one of the main things that sets us apart in the minds of other churches. To separate the LDS church from the BoM would be impossible in my mind. You won't see one without the other when investigating either one.

I am not arguing that the LDS church is not tied to the BoM. I am arguing that the present theology (indeed since the 1840's) is not represented in the BoM.

And if the BoM is to be considered valid scripture, it must be valid to all the world, not just the LDS or other restoration churches. Just as the Bible.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Jenda+Apr 20 2005, 08:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Apr 20 2005, 08:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -john doe@Apr 19 2005, 10:07 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Apr 19 2005, 09:12 PM

Brigham Young doesn't enter my thoughts one bit when I think of the BoM.  You need to find a way to separate the BoM from the LDS church because the two are not synonyous.  If they were, there would be only one church that accepted and used the BoM.  So please, don't confuse the two.

Yet the LDS church is securely tied to the BoM. Ask anyone who knows anything about the LDS what the differences are between us and other churches, and they will tell you about our belief in the BoM. Sure, there are other churches that teach from it and some others that even believe in its truthfulness, including one notable Baptist minmistry in Mo., but they are small in numbers when compared to the LDS. The BoM is one of the main things that sets us apart in the minds of other churches. To separate the LDS church from the BoM would be impossible in my mind. You won't see one without the other when investigating either one.

I am not arguing that the LDS church is not tied to the BoM. I am arguing that the present theology (indeed since the 1840's) is not represented in the BoM.

What theology isn't represented in the BofM are you specifically referring to? I just don't see what you are talking about because I don't see what we are taught differing from the BofM teachings.

[Amillia]

And if the BoM is to be considered valid scripture, it must be valid to all the world, not just the LDS or other restoration churches.  Just as the Bible.

That is pure BS! The bible isn't even considered valid scripture by many sects.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Amillia@Apr 20 2005, 01:20 PM

And if the BoM is to be considered valid scripture, it must be valid to all the world, not just the LDS or other restoration churches.  Just as the Bible.

That is pure BS! The bible isn't even considered valid scripture by many sects.

Are you referring to Christian sects? If so, name one that doesn't consider the Bible as scripture.

M.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Maureen+Apr 20 2005, 02:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maureen @ Apr 20 2005, 02:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Apr 20 2005, 01:20 PM

And if the BoM is to be considered valid scripture, it must be valid to all the world, not just the LDS or other restoration churches.  Just as the Bible.

That is pure BS! The bible isn't even considered valid scripture by many sects.

Are you referring to Christian sects? If so, name one that doesn't consider the Bible as scripture.

M.

No ~ I was referring to religious sects in general because Jenda never specified christian, just restorational churches. There are many such churches in every sect, christian or not.

[Dale]

Hi,

Chicago guy if you still want help join in the discussion. Everybody gets into discussions & forgets about the person that asked the question.

Sincerely,

Dale

[john doe]

Originally posted by Dale@Apr 20 2005, 05:53 PM

Hi,

Chicago guy if you still want help join in the discussion. Everybody gets into discussions & forgets about the person that asked the question.

Sincerely,

Dale

C'mon, Dale, CG is a hit-and-run, he's long gone by now.

And Jenda, the BoM is scripture, whether others believe it or not. Just because they don't believe in it doesn't diminish its reality in my eyes. And please correct me if I'm misinformed, but it has been my impression that part of the whole RLDS/CoC name change and shift towards mainstream Christianity has been a result of their diminishing the importance of the BoM in their religion.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Amillia+Apr 19 2005, 05:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Apr 19 2005, 05:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -bizabra@Apr 19 2005, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by -Outshined@Mar 3 2005, 03:54 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Maureen@Mar 3 2005, 04:01 PM

the person who started WhyProphets, is he not an ex-Mormon now?

I believe he gave up all religious belief; he fell prey to the "try to prove it" syndrome I mentioned earlier.

After just having slogged through Whyprophets reams of dreck (you so thoughtfully posted, A) the thought of him leaving THE CHURCH after he tried to "prove it" made me laugh and laugh and laugh!

thanks! It made my day, somehow. :)

Maybe you shouldn't have 'slopped' through it. It always seems the way though , doesn't it? Those that slop through things expect to have the same insight as those who search ponder and pray....

Actually, I used the word "slogged", not "slopped". Gives it a little bit different meaning, eh?

To make it clearer for you: I read it completely and thoroughly, all of it. However, I found his reasoning hard to follow and pretty fatuous. It was repetitious and poorly written. The arguements proffered were not convincing. I found it hard to finish, but I carried on to the bitter end anyhow.

Is that any clearer?

My thinking is clear, but not the thinking of the author of that DRECK you posted.

Is yours?

[Dale]

Hi,

The Community of Christ Church won't thrive unless the Book of Mormon is used more in missionary work. I am more concerned with my community than passing judgement on LDS for supposedly not believing the book. I know from personal experience that the LDS believe in the book no less than I do. My experiences with the Holy Spirit that surround that Christ loving book is experienced by many countless people each year.

I don't want to talk about the errors in LDS theology. To me enough has been said by both churches about each other in daily conversation we need to avoid insulting each others denominations. If an idea comes up I don't believe I say so & let the matter rest. I am an active supporter of FAIR an active Utah based LDS apologetics. I am on a message board with Paul Osbourne & Kerry Shirts defending the Book of Abraham. Although I treat the book as apocryphal. And some doctrine in the book isn't RLDS beliefs. I am excited by the evidences the Book of Abraham wasn't totally a speculative work Of Joseph Smith Jr. If anybody wants to join in our discussions e-mail me & I will get you the link. It's a critics website but the message board allows free speech on the papyrus issue.

I was happy to lean that a local congregation of Community of Christ I had thought had closed is still meeting in my community. I am going to church Sunday. I am so excited.

I believe that there are internal evidences that support the book's claims to history. One FARMs book I like is Echoes & Evidences of the Book of Mormon. The case for Book of Mormon reliability seems to me to be as strong as evidences I see Fundementalists bring up for the Bible. And you get scholars outside of believing circles disputing the evidences.

Sincerely,

Dale

[Amillia]

Originally posted by bizabra+Apr 20 2005, 09:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Apr 20 2005, 09:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Apr 19 2005, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by -bizabra@Apr 19 2005, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by -Outshined@Mar 3 2005, 03:54 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Maureen@Mar 3 2005, 04:01 PM

the person who started WhyProphets, is he not an ex-Mormon now?

I believe he gave up all religious belief; he fell prey to the "try to prove it" syndrome I mentioned earlier.

After just having slogged through Whyprophets reams of dreck (you so thoughtfully posted, A) the thought of him leaving THE CHURCH after he tried to "prove it" made me laugh and laugh and laugh!

thanks! It made my day, somehow. :)

Maybe you shouldn't have 'slopped' through it. It always seems the way though , doesn't it? Those that slop through things expect to have the same insight as those who search ponder and pray....

Actually, I used the word "slogged", not "slopped". Gives it a little bit different meaning, eh?

To make it clearer for you: I read it completely and thoroughly, all of it. However, I found his reasoning hard to follow and pretty fatuous. It was repetitious and poorly written. The arguements proffered were not convincing. I found it hard to finish, but I carried on to the bitter end anyhow.

Is that any clearer?

My thinking is clear, but not the thinking of the author of that DRECK you posted.

Is yours?

Actually I see them both as having to do with lazy. And it is evident that the Spirit wasn't present to ease the understanding any. That is very much clearer.

I posted dreck? LOL Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? LOL

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Amillia@Apr 20 2005, 01:20 PM

And if the BoM is to be considered valid scripture, it must be valid to all the world, not just the LDS or other restoration churches.  Just as the Bible.

That is pure BS! The bible isn't even considered valid scripture by many sects.

Amilia, truth is truth. God doesn't change the truth for the different world religions. Please try to understand what I am saying.

If we believe the BoM to be the truth, it has to be the truth for everyone. Just because they don't accept it doesn't mean it isn't the truth.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by john doe+Apr 20 2005, 08:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (john doe @ Apr 20 2005, 08:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Dale@Apr 20 2005, 05:53 PM

Hi,

Chicago guy if you still want help join in the discussion. Everybody gets into discussions & forgets about the person that asked the question.

Sincerely,

Dale

C'mon, Dale, CG is a hit-and-run, he's long gone by now.

And Jenda, the BoM is scripture, whether others believe it or not. Just because they don't believe in it doesn't diminish its reality in my eyes. And please correct me if I'm misinformed, but it has been my impression that part of the whole RLDS/CoC name change and shift towards mainstream Christianity has been a result of their diminishing the importance of the BoM in their religion.

I think you will find that it was Amilia who made that statement, not me.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Jenda+Apr 21 2005, 12:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Apr 21 2005, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Apr 20 2005, 01:20 PM

And if the BoM is to be considered valid scripture, it must be valid to all the world, not just the LDS or other restoration churches.  Just as the Bible.

That is pure BS! The bible isn't even considered valid scripture by many sects.

Amilia, truth is truth. God doesn't change the truth for the different world religions. Please try to understand what I am saying.

If we believe the BoM to be the truth, it has to be the truth for everyone. Just because they don't accept it doesn't mean it isn't the truth.

Absolutely, but you said it had to be accepted as scripture as the bible is accepted. It isn't accepted universally as the Bible. It is only accepted by members of churches who believe it is scripture.

I don't know how we got to this point, because it just doesn't seem to have gotten anywhere. Everyone knows the BofM isn't accepted as well as the Bible. If that is what you didn't mean, then this whole discussion has been for not.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Jenda+Apr 21 2005, 12:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Apr 21 2005, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -john doe@Apr 20 2005, 08:02 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Dale@Apr 20 2005, 05:53 PM

Hi,

Chicago guy if you still want help join in the discussion. Everybody gets into discussions & forgets about the person that asked the question.

Sincerely,

Dale

C'mon, Dale, CG is a hit-and-run, he's long gone by now.

And Jenda, the BoM is scripture, whether others believe it or not. Just because they don't believe in it doesn't diminish its reality in my eyes. And please correct me if I'm misinformed, but it has been my impression that part of the whole RLDS/CoC name change and shift towards mainstream Christianity has been a result of their diminishing the importance of the BoM in their religion.

I think you will find that it was Amilia who made that statement, not me.

I never said ANYWHERE, that the BofM wasn't scripture!!! Come on guys. Open your minds before you post and read what is written.

If you can find anywhere, that I stated the BofM wasn't scripture ~ show it to me now!