The Omnipotence of God

[Tarnished]

Can we please get the thread back on topic? Or should I request a mod to close it?

[Faded]

In my ever so humble opinion, W. Cleon Skousen is a master of taking the deepest doctrines and mangling them into something horrendous. His overall life and opinions are a bit ... odd Cleon Skousen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As Tarnished has said, if we want to have a discussion on validity of Skousen as a source, open a new thread for that purpose. It is at least significant that he is NOT a General Authority and never was one. He taught religion classes at BYU and that's the extent of his credentials. I would say that makes his thoughts worth consideration, but his conclusions certainly cannot be taken as factual. He came to a lot of conclusions that I wholeheartedly disagree with. His thoughts are always begin with revelation, but he runs miles further with an idea where he really shouldn't. That is my opinion. Other people can have their own.

If we want to establish the Omnipotence of God or the non-Omnipotence of God, I think need better than one persons' speculation on the matter. Revelation through prophets called of God who were speaking in the name of the Lord would seem to be a good minimum requirement.

[Traveler]

You've misunderstood the question. I asked for evidence, not B.S. (Brother Skousen)

Asserting that something is true because somebody else said it is not the kind of evidence I am asking for.

I do not know if this helps anyone to understand but here are some interesting scriptures that may apply:

• Alma 42: 13, 22, 25

13 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.

• • •

22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

• • •

25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God.

• Morm. 9: 19

19 And if there were miracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles and yet be an unchangeable Being? And behold, I say unto you he changeth not; if so he would cease to be God; and he ceaseth not to be God, and is a God of miracles.

The Traveler

[Faded]

I do not know if this helps anyone to understand but here are some interesting scriptures that may apply:

• Alma 42: 13, 22, 25

13 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.

• • •

22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

• • •

25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God.

• Morm. 9: 19

19 And if there were miracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles and yet be an unchangeable Being? And behold, I say unto you he changeth not; if so he would cease to be God; and he ceaseth not to be God, and is a God of miracles.

The Traveler

And therein lies the real discussion. Some would say that the LDS idea of God is not as All-Powerful as the God of other Christian faiths because based on revelation and scripture, we are told that God cannot lie, cannot do evil things, and cannot change the way he interacts with mankind.

Does that make Him any less Omnipotent? I don't think it does because these are characteristics of God. He doesn't change. That is who He is. He doesn't alter his plan. that is who He is. He does not lie. That is who He is. These are characteristics of any God. These are personality traits that led Him to become what He is. I don't think we need to speculate about "what if God did _____ " because he isn't going to.

I'm an imperfect man. I could go buy a gun and go some random place and kill a bunch of people. But I'm not going to because it is completely against my nature. God is infinitely perfect, so the odds of Him doing something against His own nature are infinitely less likely than me going on a shooting spree. And I should not have to go on a shooting spree just to prove that I can. That would be idiocy and nonsensical logic. Just because a person can do something doesn't mean they ever will.

He remains all-powerful. God is Omnipotent. He repeatedly says He is. That's my $0.02.

[Traveler]

And therein lies the real discussion. Some would say that the LDS idea of God is not as All-Powerful as the God of other Christian faiths because based on revelation and scripture, we are told that God cannot lie, cannot do evil things, and cannot change the way he interacts with mankind.

Does that make Him any less Omnipotent? I don't think it does because these are characteristics of God. He doesn't change. That is who He is. He doesn't alter his plan. that is who He is. He does not lie. That is who He is. These are characteristics of any God. These are personality traits that led Him to become what He is. I don't think we need to speculate about "what if God did _____ " because he isn't going to.

I'm an imperfect man. I could go buy a gun and go some random place and kill a bunch of people. But I'm not going to because it is completely against my nature. God is infinitely perfect, so the odds of Him doing something against His own nature are infinitely less likely than me going on a shooting spree. And I should not have to go on a shooting spree just to prove that I can. That would be idiocy and nonsensical logic. Just because a person can do something doesn't mean they ever will.

He remains all-powerful. God is Omnipotent. He repeatedly says He is. That's my $0.02.

I believe the problem is that some think that laws would limit G-d by forcing him to obey them. That is a way to look at things but it is all wrong. It is G-d mastry of law and other thing that defines his Omnipotence.

The Traveler

[StallionMcBeastly]

Bad things happen because this life is a learning experience. God thinks in an eternal perspective, so any struggle here, no matter how severe, is SO miniscule to Him.

If it was in our BEST interest, then God would make everything perfect in each one of our lives, but this isn't the case. Our best interest is to go through struggles and deal with pain and challenges - and that is hard for us to understand with our Earthly perspective.

[Guest]

Sorry, I didn't read all the responses, I just read the original post. And here is my quick answer to your brother...

From 2 Nephi 2:16 = without opposition there is no choice.