Terri Shiavo

[Outshined]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Mar 31 2005, 04:32 PM

As I read Felos’s words, I heard a radio bulletin announce that the Pope may now require a feeding tube. Fortunately for him, his life is ultimately in the hands of God and not a Florida probate judge.

The Pope has already made his wishes known.

[DisRuptive1]

So, unlike Death Row, there’s no call from the governor, and no quick painless lethal injection or electrocution or swift clean broken neck from the hangman’s noose

I said this first!

her name will doubtless continue to be a political football.

I doubt it. Certainly they'll make another "Terri's" law but after that we'll all probably forget about this and it won't be brought up until the next PVS person's life hangs on the balance of a judge's decision.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Mar 31 2005, 05:13 PM

her name will doubtless continue to be a political football.

I doubt it. Certainly they'll make another "Terri's" law but after that we'll all probably forget about this and it won't be brought up until the next PVS person's life hangs on the balance of a judge's decision.

Actually, I've already heard of a group pushing for a law that "aldulterous" spouses not be allowed to speak for comatose partners...

This was a very inflammatory subject even here at LDS Talk, and I expect it to be bandied about for some time.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Outshined+Mar 31 2005, 05:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Outshined @ Mar 31 2005, 05:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--DisRuptive1@Mar 31 2005, 05:13 PM

her name will doubtless continue to be a political football.

I doubt it. Certainly they'll make another "Terri's" law but after that we'll all probably forget about this and it won't be brought up until the next PVS person's life hangs on the balance of a judge's decision.

Actually, I've already heard of a group pushing for a law that "aldulterous" spouses not be allowed to speak for comatose partners...

This was a very inflammatory subject even here at LDS Talk, and I expect it to be bandied about for some time.

I can't understand how anyone can use what her husband was doing to validate leaving her in that horrid conditon for endless years to come.

I am so thankful she has been allowed to find true life~

[Outshined]

Originally posted by Amillia@Mar 31 2005, 05:31 PM

I can't understand how anyone can use what her husband was doing to validate leaving her in that horrid conditon for endless years to come.

Especially when you consider that her parents encouraged him to start dating again in the first place...

[DisRuptive1]

Well he did start dating as we know of this new woman. He just kept a promise for a woman he [once] loved.

[Idacat]

Michael Schiavo, through all of this has stayed out of the spotlight and avoided, inasmuch as possible, the circus created by Terri's parents, who somehow have become seen as paragons of virtue.

Paragons of virtue don't sell the names and contact information to political organizations. The Schindler's did.

How Great the Schindlers

[Idacat]

Did the Schindlers care about Terri, or only about them selves.

This tells me their "care", went beyond the ghoulish and was all about them, not the care, comfort, or welfare of Terri:

Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive. Throughout the course of the litigation, deposition and trial testimony by members of the Schindler family voiced the disturbing belief that they would keep Theresa alive at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb, and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open heart surgery. There was additional, difficult testimony that appeared to establish that despite the sad and undesirable condition of Theresa, the parents still derived joy from having her alive, even if Theresa might not be at all aware of her environment given the persistent vegetative state. Within the testimony, as part of the hypotheticals presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it. Throughout this painful and difficult trial, the family acknowledged that Theresa was in a diagnosed persistent vegetative state.

From this link

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Idacat@Mar 31 2005, 06:45 PM

Michael Schiavo, through all of this has stayed out of the spotlight and avoided, inasmuch as possible, the circus created by Terri's parents, who somehow have become seen as paragons of virtue.

Paragons of virtue don't sell the names and contact information to political organizations. The Schindler's did.

How Great the Schindlers

I agree. I really can't stand her parents and I can see why Michael has had to fight for every right for his wife ~ which would have been normally his without a fight.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by Idacat@Mar 31 2005, 06:45 PM

Paragons of virtue don't sell the names and contact information to political organizations. The Schindler's did.

How Great the Schindlers

I heard about this. How crude; if I donated to their cause, I'd would not expect them to sell my name and contact information to others so I can be inundated with pleas for money.

[Idacat]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Mar 31 2005, 10:07 AM

Science does have its place, but not in life or death matters...............

Personal insults to me will never change the way I feel about this, and it only shows me that you have run out of options. Furthermore, it is your lack of empathy that shows others who you truly are.

If it weren;t for science we would each have a dead son. I think you know this.

Is all life in the hands of the Heavenly Father?

Yes, this is why he gave us science.

Other than saying the same others have said, that your references and links are picked and chosen to damn Michael Schiavo, sans objective evidence, to hell, on earth and in the hereafter, I have not seen that I have in any way personally insulted you.

Quite the contrary, in fact, since I gave you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you would want to know more of the physical and scientific facts, the court documents and testimony, etc. in order to make your OWN informed opinion rather than parroting off what you receive spoon fed and already biased by not just the right wing media, like Faux News, but the army of fundamentalist right wing websites that have sprung up for the entire purpose of damning Michael Schiavo in the face of all evidence to the contrary, including the FACT that he has, all along, been the one who refused to make a public, political, and media circus of the life and death of his wife....a spirit, a soul, trapped in a body here on earth, unable to move on to the peace she deserves in the hereafter.

I have no empathy???

I've seen way to many people trapped in dead bodies as was Terri, with families to wrapped up in their own selfishness to let go to lack the empathy necessary to make that hard decision.

God grant you peace, as He has now granted Terri release from her bondage and flight to her eternal life.

[StrawberryFields]

I am very saddened for Terri¡Çs family. Although I don¡Çt know them personally I believe them to be the same kind of loving parents that most of us are. I can¡Çt imagine what they have had to endure watching their daughter being tortured and executed by starvation. Then her ¡Èloving partner¡É throws her family out of the room just 10 minutes before she passes. To all Michael supports¡ÄWhy would he do that?? I have an idea but I would like to be enlightened from the other side.

A woman has been executed in a very public way today. It is really a sad thing that on the day of her death, there are those who still pleasure in mocking at that is sacred to Terri, her family.

[Idacat]

Originally posted by Amillia@Mar 31 2005, 06:49 PM

I agree. I really can't stand her parents and I can see why Michael has had to fight for every right for his wife ~ which would have been normally his without a fight.

You know, ten or so years ago her parents were just as any other grieving family, loathe to let their child die, despite the exhaustion of any means of meaningful recovery, including simply, time in the PVS. I posted a link somewhere back there to the definition of PVS (American College of Neurology website) that said after 12 months there is NO chance of recovery; yet Michael actively sought all kinds of therapies for at least 3-4 years past the incident before losing hope and then seeking to end Terri's earthly existence as he knew she would want, as, WHICH OF US WOULD not??

But, in all their zeal they eventually allowed themselves to be co opted and used by the same "right to life" religious fundamentalist groups that think it is OK to shoot doctors through their livingroom picture window because they legally terminate pregnancy.

This is ironic, since these same fundamentalists regard Catholics as little more than abominable idolators, just as they regard we LDS as not Christian at all, since we are not trinitarians in the classic sense, bar LDS from active participation in the National Day of Prayer, and will not let LDS ward softball teams play in Christian leagues, all the while sucking unknowing LDS into supporting their political causes.

Just wait until they turn. On us.

[Idacat]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Mar 31 2005, 07:19 PM

Then her ¡Èloving partner¡É throws her family out of the room just 10 minutes before she passes. To all Michael supports¡ÄWhy would he do that?? I have an idea but I would like to be enlightened from the other side.

It was part of a prior court decision that ONLY Michael be present at the actual moment of death. When it became obvious that that moment was nigh, hospice employees summoned Michael from his adjacent room and asked Terri's brother to leave, as previously defined by legal means. Of course, he did not go quietly, but put up a stink and physically threatened Michael Schiavo, ultimately having to be removed by security guards.

This was not an execution, it was, for Terri, an escape from a tortured body that should have happened years ago.

Terri's family members were allowed to be with her until ten minutes before she actually died, and were allowed back in, to be alone with her, ten minutes after she died. I think that, given the court order that members of both families could NOT be in the room at the same time, this, I see, as gracious on Michael's part.

So, contrary to some conspiracy theory, it was a court order issued to prevent possible mayhem, that made it impossible for Terri's family to be present at the time of her death.

IMHO, if they had behaved themselves a little better for the last ten years, as they got more and more "out there", they could well have been allowed to stay.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Mar 31 2005, 07:19 PM

To all Michael supports¡ÄWhy would he do that?? I have an idea but I would like to be enlightened from the other side.

According to the news media ~ they were kicked out because they started a great big fight ~ even the news media and lawyers stated this ~ so

I don't know what you would probably say was the reason, but really those parents are creeps.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Mar 31 2005, 05:19 PM

A woman has been executed in a very public way today. It is really a sad thing that on the day of her death, there are those who still pleasure in mocking at that is sacred to Terri, her family.

What a blockheaded thing to say Strawberry. Terri wasn't executed. Her wishes, as found by a court of law, were fullfilled.

How enlightening it would all be if people simply respected her wishes and stopped injecting their own opinions into her situation.

[Snow]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 31 2005, 09:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 31 2005, 09:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Mar 31 2005, 09:16 AM

She is gone.

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.htm...y=1112281512000

Yeah, and the jerk wouldn't even let her parents spend her dying moments with her.

No one forced her family to be beligerent jerks right up to the end.

One would think, wouldn't one, that if they truly had Terri's interests in mind they would have tried to being a spirit of peace and healing, rather than dissention and urest to her last moments.

[StrawberryFields]

If one thing is clear to me it is that having a different opinion than some on LDS Talk, brings nothing but insults and name calling my way. Right or wrong, I am entitled to my opinion which by now you should know what that is.

Just as some of you believe that the Shindlers are creeps, I believe that about Michael and his creepy attorney. It appears that it is not possible to have a civilized discussion about this case because there are only two sides and if I say what I feel to be true, I am insulted, and attacked personally. Honestly, I don't need it especially from someone who means nothing to me. From my friends, yes it hurts me, and it¡Çs just not worth the extra pain this causes me.

In other words... stop it, and rise above the personal attacks.

[USNationalist]

I vote they all suck. And i vote that i dont care.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Mar 31 2005, 09:07 AM

This is not a game, and it this not a ride, this is a life that we are discussing. Terri will soon be gone, but her legacy, with her supporters will live on.

Science does have its place, but not in life or death matters, that belongs to the Will of Our Heavenly Father. If science was correct, Nick would not be here today.

Personal insults to me will never change the way I feel about this, and it only shows me that you have run out of options. Furthermore, it is your lack of empathy that shows others who you truly are.

Science and medicine is what "saved" Terri all those years ago whenher heart stopped. It is what revived her in the damaged state she's been in for the last 15 years. If "god" had anything to do with it, then she would have died at that time!

Your son might have died without medical intervention. Would you be willing to just pray and leave it all to god? Or are you actually having him treated by medical science?

I am glad that science has made the strides it has in the realm of medicine. Your comments are silly and disingenous.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Mar 31 2005, 06:19 PM

I am very saddened for Terri¡Çs family. Although I don¡Çt know them personally I believe them to be the same kind of loving parents that most of us are. I can¡Çt imagine what they have had to endure watching their daughter being tortured and executed by starvation. Then her ¡Èloving partner¡É throws her family out of the room just 10 minutes before she passes. To all Michael supports¡ÄWhy would he do that?? I have an idea but I would like to be enlightened from the other side.

A woman has been executed in a very public way today. It is really a sad thing that on the day of her death, there are those who still pleasure in mocking at that is sacred to Terri, her family.

Are you implying you think he KILLED her at the end?

You, my dear lady, strike me as someone who would be shouting "Kill the wytches" if you had lived in Salem a few centuries ago. . . . . . . .

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Mar 31 2005, 07:19 PM

I am very saddened for Terri¡Çs family. Although I don¡Çt know them personally I believe them to be the same kind of loving parents that most of us are. I can¡Çt imagine what they have had to endure watching their daughter being tortured and executed by starvation. Then her ¡Èloving partner¡É throws her family out of the room just 10 minutes before she passes. To all Michael supports¡ÄWhy would he do that?? I have an idea but I would like to be enlightened from the other side.

A woman has been executed in a very public way today. It is really a sad thing that on the day of her death, there are those who still pleasure in mocking at that is sacred to Terri, her family.

The parents made it a public spectacle and I would think that they must have experience more pain seeing their daughter suffer in such a horrid body for decades, more than they would experience pain at seeing her released from it. I can only rejoice for Terri at this point.

Had not the family gotten all up in arms and started another fight, they would have been allowed to stay. But they were so contentious they were escorted out.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by bizabra+Apr 1 2005, 09:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Apr 1 2005, 09:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Mar 31 2005, 09:07 AM

This is not a game, and it this not a ride, this is a life that we are discussing. Terri will soon be gone, but her legacy, with her supporters will live on.

Science does have its place, but not in life or death matters, that belongs to the Will of Our Heavenly Father. If science was correct, Nick would not be here today.

Personal insults to me will never change the way I feel about this, and it only shows me that you have run out of options.   Furthermore, it is your lack of empathy that shows others who you truly are.

Science and medicine is what "saved" Terri all those years ago whenher heart stopped. It is what revived her in the damaged state she's been in for the last 15 years. If "god" had anything to do with it, then she would have died at that time!

Your son might have died without medical intervention. Would you be willing to just pray and leave it all to god? Or are you actually having him treated by medical science?

I am glad that science has made the strides it has in the realm of medicine. Your comments are silly and disingenous.

Yes I believe that science/ Medicine did play a part in saving Nick's Life. It was also science that told me that my son probably wouldn't make it three times. As you will see from this image Nick's head injuries are extensive. Nick being alive today is nothing short of a Miracle and the Will of our Heavenly Father.

Biz, you have not been here very much lately so I post this for you and those who are new.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by bizabra@Apr 1 2005, 09:47 AM

You, my dear lady, strike me as someone who would be shouting "Kill the wytches" if you had lived in Salem a few centuries ago. . . . . . . .

Now that IS funny!

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Amillia+Apr 1 2005, 09:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Apr 1 2005, 09:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Strawberry Fields@Mar 31 2005, 07:19 PM

I am very saddened for Terri¡Çs family. Although I don¡Çt know them personally I believe them to be the same kind of loving parents that most of us are. I can¡Çt imagine what they have had to endure watching their daughter being tortured and executed by starvation. Then her ¡Èloving partner¡É throws her family out of the room just 10 minutes before she passes. To all Michael supports¡ÄWhy would he do that?? I have an idea but I would like to be enlightened from the other side.

A woman has been executed in a very public way today. It is really a sad thing that on the day of her death, there are those who still pleasure in mocking at that is sacred to Terri, her family.

The parents made it a public spectacle and I would think that they must have experience more pain seeing their daughter suffer in such a horrid body for decades, more than they would experience pain at seeing her released from it. I can only rejoice for Terri at this point.

Had not the family gotten all up in arms and started another fight, they would have been allowed to stay. But they were so contentious they were escorted out.

Amillia,

I will discuss this with you because you are not attacking me personally.

According to one of the posts here the decision was made by the court that Michael was the only one allowed to be with her when she died. The post went on to say something like this...when the hospice staff felt that Terri was close to death, they went to get Michael who was in another room within the hospice center. He then threw the family out and posed for pictures... It seems a bit self serving to me.

I would have made a fuss myself if I was being thrown out of the presence of my child or sibling as she took her last breath court order or not.

It is my opinion that Michael is doing some things to hurt the Schindlers. Terri is catholic and her family would like to have her buried and not cremated. What would be his motive to over stepping her religious preferences?