A Poll For Faithful LDS: Testimonies

[Jason]

Please stop being condescending, Jason. The same basic rules apply here that apply on our other favorite board. You cannot tell people they are not Christian. In fact, I will go the step further than they go there. You can't even imply it. Please refrain from these types of remarks.

Dawn, I wasn't even trying to be condescending to anyone. I was telling TS that I understand where's he's coming from, since at one time I was an agnostic who would have said the same thing.

I never said that anyone here wasn't a christian. Notice I said "Christian again". Look at the sequence: Mormon, Agnostic, Catholic (Orthodox).

I think you're trying to take things the wrong way here. That's not fair to me.

[Jason]

I think that what you fail to realize is that not all spirits are bad. And once people have an encounter with the Divine, they know, without a doubt, what an evil spirit feels like.

There's no evidence that once one encounters a true spirit, that they can always discern a false one.

I believe that God used Joseph Smith precisely because he did allow himself be open to that type of encounter. He certainly couldn't use someone who was as close-minded as today's (and probably yesterday's) OC's. They would refuse to hear Him, no matter how loud He shouted. 

Perhaps that's true of Protestants and neo-protestants, but I can say without a doubt that this is not the case with either Roman Catholics or Orthodox.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 15 2005, 11:37 AM

I think that what you fail to realize is that not all spirits are bad. And once people have an encounter with the Divine, they know, without a doubt, what an evil spirit feels like.

There's no evidence that once one encounters a true spirit, that they can always discern a false one.

I believe that God used Joseph Smith precisely because he did allow himself be open to that type of encounter. He certainly couldn't use someone who was as close-minded as today's (and probably yesterday's) OC's. They would refuse to hear Him, no matter how loud He shouted. 

Perhaps that's true of Protestants and neo-protestants, but I can say without a doubt that this is not the case with either Roman Catholics or Orthodox.

I don't believe that.

[Jason]

I don't believe that.

The first part or the second part.

If the second part, would you like me to prove you wrong?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 15 2005, 10:34 AM

Please stop being condescending, Jason. The same basic rules apply here that apply on our other favorite board. You cannot tell people they are not Christian. In fact, I will go the step further than they go there. You can't even imply it. Please refrain from these types of remarks.

Dawn, I wasn't even trying to be condescending to anyone. I was telling TS that I understand where's he's coming from, since at one time I was an agnostic who would have said the same thing.

I never said that anyone here wasn't a christian. Notice I said "Christian again". Look at the sequence: Mormon, Agnostic, Catholic (Orthodox).

I think you're trying to take things the wrong way here. That's not fair to me.

I'm sorry, Jason, I did not understand the perspective you were posting from. Maybe if you made it a bit clearer in your posts...........

[Jenda]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 15 2005, 10:37 AM

I think that what you fail to realize is that not all spirits are bad. And once people have an encounter with the Divine, they know, without a doubt, what an evil spirit feels like.

There's no evidence that once one encounters a true spirit, that they can always discern a false one.

I believe that God used Joseph Smith precisely because he did allow himself be open to that type of encounter. He certainly couldn't use someone who was as close-minded as today's (and probably yesterday's) OC's. They would refuse to hear Him, no matter how loud He shouted. 

Perhaps that's true of Protestants and neo-protestants, but I can say without a doubt that this is not the case with either Roman Catholics or Orthodox.

You can speak for all Roman Catholics and Orthodox Catholics?

So where were you when the Catholic church was slautering people in God's name? Where were you when the Catholics were selling indulgences? Where were you when the Catholic church changed all the sacraments? How come you didn't speak up for God then?

I do honestly believe that once you have encountered the Divine, you definitely can discern the not-so-divine. I don't claim that all the not-so-divine are evil. I am sure that there are a wide variety of spirits that grasp for us, but I do believe that when we recognize the difference between spirits, we are required to choose the one that will bring us closer to God.

I will PM you.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Jenda@Apr 15 2005, 11:29 AM

So where were you when the Catholic church was slautering people in God's name? Where were you when the Catholics were selling indulgences? Where were you when the Catholic church changed all the sacraments? How come you didn't speak up for God then?

I'll take a crack at this one.

Because he didn't exist yet? He wasn't even a glimmer in his non-existent parents and grandparents eyes yet?

M.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Maureen+Apr 15 2005, 11:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maureen @ Apr 15 2005, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Apr 15 2005, 11:29 AM

So where were you when the Catholic church was slautering people in God's name?  Where were you when the Catholics were selling indulgences?  Where were you when the Catholic church changed all the sacraments?  How come you didn't speak up for God then?

I'll take a crack at this one.

Because he didn't exist yet? He wasn't even a glimmer in his non-existent parents and grandparents eyes yet?

M.

:)

[Jason]

You can speak for all Roman Catholics and Orthodox Catholics?

Of course Im not saying that all RC's and Orthodox are open-minded and willing to hear God's voice. What Im saying is that there are those in both churches who have made claims of literally conversing with Angels and a few (very few) who've seen and spoken to Christ. For example, 30 years before Joseph Smith was born, St. Seraphim of Sarov (in Russia) says he saw Christ and spoke with him.

Assuming (as I do) that this was a true vision, it does cast a lot of doubt on Smith's "first vision" which alludes that all are astray, and that none are listening.

So where were you when the Catholic church was slautering people in God's name? Where were you when the Catholics were selling indulgences? Where were you when the Catholic church changed all the sacraments? How come you didn't speak up for God then?

They didn't change all the sacraments. But there have been some significant alterations in the last 150 years or so. That's too bad for them.

I do honestly believe that once you have encountered the Divine, you definitely can discern the not-so-divine. I don't claim that all the not-so-divine are evil. I am sure that there are a wide variety of spirits that grasp for us, but I do believe that when we recognize the difference between spirits, we are required to choose the one that will bring us closer to God. 

Like I told Amillia, a deceptive spirit wouldn't be much good if you and I could easily tell the difference. Yes, evil spirits sometimes do appear in their true form, and it's pretty darn easy to tell (a black-shadowy figure not quite human like is obviously not from God).

[Jenda]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 15 2005, 01:08 PM

You can speak for all Roman Catholics and Orthodox Catholics?

Of course Im not saying that all RC's and Orthodox are open-minded and willing to hear God's voice. What Im saying is that there are those in both churches who have made claims of literally conversing with Angels and a few (very few) who've seen and spoken to Christ. For example, 30 years before Joseph Smith was born, St. Seraphim of Sarov (in Russia) says he saw Christ and spoke with him.

Assuming (as I do) that this was a true vision, it does cast a lot of doubt on Smith's "first vision" which alludes that all are astray, and that none are listening.

That depends on which version of the vision you accept as true (and why you accept that particular one as true.)

Out of the multitude of versions, are you accepting the one that casts the worst light on things for reasons of proving a point? Is there a reason that you don't accept the first version (the only one in Joseph Smith's own handwriting), that says something very different?

I, personally don't believe even the worst one says what you are claiming it says. It speaks about "churches" and "creeds", not individuals. I don't believe God was ever absent on the earth, removed from those that earnestly sought Him, I do believe He removed His blessings from the churches (in general) to speak in His name because of the evil they committed in His name.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 15 2005, 12:06 PM

I don't believe that.

The first part or the second part.

If the second part, would you like me to prove you wrong?

You are saying that Catholics are open to listening to the Spirit? or JS smith?

[Dale]

Hi,

My belief in the book comes through study & prayerful thoughts. Whatever doubts I had about the book always seemed to have enough answers for me to study. I like the Book of Mormon & read it with my New Revised Standard Version from Zondervan. The Community of Christ sells a $22.00 missionary set with that Bible. It's a pretty red book. The Revised Authorized Book of Mormon, & Doctrine & Covenants in paper back blue editions. I am trying to do an hour long devotional with readings from the Bible & Book of Mormon & from other books I am studying. A book I am using now & I rotate my anti-Mormon book's is Mormonism 101 by Bill Mckeever & Eric Johnson. If my testimony in the book solely rested on subjective feelings I would admit it.

Sincerely,

Dale

[Lindy]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 15 2005, 01:08 PM

Of course Im not saying that all RC's and Orthodox are open-minded and willing to hear God's voice. What Im saying is that there are those in both churches who have made claims of literally conversing with Angels and a few (very few) who've seen and spoken to Christ.

I will agree with Jason....I believe that there are those in all religions who are able to converse with angels and more. Regardless of being a RC, OC, RLDS, LDS, JEW, SDA, JW or Babtist. I guess I think in terms of equal opportunities for visions, etc. Equal opportunity for Heavenly visits, etc. I just think that what matters the most is what is done with that opportunity.

[Guest arthur_lds]

I believed in the power of the Holy Ghost before I began reading the book of Mormon. I prayed to know the truth, whether it be truly God's word or not before I began reading and after I finished reading for the night. Through the peaceful and uplifting feeling I received from the Holy Ghost of Truth I gained my testimony of the Book of Mormon. I testify that it is the true word of God. I testify that Moroni's promise is a true promise. Anyone can put it to the test and find out for themselves that it is the word of God. I know that this Church is Christ's Church. I know that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. And I know that Gordon B. Hinckley is the prophet, seer, and revelator of Christ's true Church today. I say this in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, amen.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by arthur_lds@Oct 2 2005, 08:08 AM

I believed in the power of the Holy Ghost before I began reading the book of Mormon.  I prayed to know the truth, whether it be truly God's word or not before I began reading and after I finished reading for the night.  Through the peaceful and uplifting feeling I received from the Holy Ghost of Truth I gained my testimony of the Book of Mormon.  I testify that it is the true word of God.  I testify that Moroni's promise is a true promise.  Anyone can put it to the test and find out for themselves that it is the word of God.  I know that this Church is Christ's Church.  I know that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God.  And I know that Gordon B. Hinckley is the prophet, seer, and revelator of Christ's true Church today.  I say this in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, amen.

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I believe ... though there was not vote available for this.... but all of the above...

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I believe ... though there was not vote available for this.... but all of the above...

I can't believe this thread is still active!

As for the testimony given above, I believe it would fall into either the 3, 4, or 5 choice, depending on the nature of the experience giving him his knowledge.

This poll is perfect.

Do not question the perfection of the poll

[Guest funkyfool416]

What was Moroni's challenge? I never read the book so i wouldnt know....

[lds_timeseeker]

:)

Originally posted by funkyfool416@Dec 21 2005, 11:47 PM

What was Moroni's challenge? I never read the book so i wouldnt know....

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I have read it. I don't know if I have gleaned the same answer you are looking for, as each time I read the scriptures I try to apply them to my life, by seeing and learning from the challenges faced by the people involved. It seems to me that Moroni had several levels of challenge. He was a historian who had to come up with his own writing materials creating as he went on top of hiding from warring lLamanites. He had the emotional challenge of never existing except during time of war, missing the comforts of a permanent home, social life, and the ease of learning because it is a pleasure, and not a right that you have to fight for with every breath. I think his general challenge was to ensure the existance of religious freedom for all who would follow him, at the cost of a life of his own making. He chose to make the most of the life given to him and became the best of warriors, and achieved amazing spiritual growth in spite of all oppostion. I think that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young come close to his descrition in more modern times. Good Luck with your studies

[glindakc]

his challenge is for us, after we read, study, and ponder the book of mormon, that we can pray about it and ask if it is true. and he says if we really pray about it with real intent, craving the truth, it will be revealed to us that the book of mormon is true. and it's certainly happened to me, many times

[Guest sugarbay]

Originally posted by funkyfool416@Dec 21 2005, 11:47 PM

What was Moroni's challenge? I never read the book so i wouldnt know....

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Moroni 10: 3-5. It's a great book. B)

[Guest]

Originally posted by funkyfool416@Dec 21 2005, 11:47 PM

What was Moroni's challenge? I never read the book so i wouldnt know....

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If you glow, you know.

I received a testimony after reading 2 Nephi 5:21. I started using higher SPF sunscreen in order to remain delightsome.

[Aristotle]

Once again, I voted with the majority:

A spiritual feeling