Proverbs 15:28

[Galatians220]

Hi I'm Ray; I am an Evangelical, closer to the Baptist teaching than anything else. My beliefs are as follows:

I believe in the Bible both Old and New Testament. The Bible is w/out error, always relevant, and aside from punctuations translation and style variances, it is perfect (Psalm 12:6, 33:6-7, Proverbs 22:19-21).

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From the Bible, I believe in the Trinity; One God in three distinct persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 48:16-17). I believe that Salvation comes by Faith Alone (Galatians 3:10-13), and that one day, all believers will be Raptured to heaven before the Tribulation Period (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

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I came over from YouTUBE (as “rrgison”) listening to Glenn Beck's testimony on how he was once a difficult and hot tempered man to a very calm believer. He became that way because he accepted the teachings of the LDS. After seeing the clear sincerity and genuineness of his long time friend, he knew he wanted to become a Mormon.

I've come to talk to, and learn from the former Evangelicals to see how they were, by scripture, became Mormons as well as to learn further what is offered here. My overall study of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints began a year ago when a friend invited me to a bible study. I agreed and have studied 6 months later, I left but promised to continue to read the Book of Mormon.

God Bless!

Edited July 29, 2009 by Galatians220

[Maya]

Welcome. It is interesting how we climb the stairs of knowledge, each on our own step up, each on our own starecase. I suppose Lutheran is at least close to Evangelical? Yes I used to believe all what you believe in. I also was in the leading yourh thing for my Lutheran church and a sundayschool teacher since 17. I was babtized to LDS at the age of 30. Never regrated a day. I have also studied many different religions, not only Christian.

[prospectmom]

Your belief that salvation comes from faith alone..... so I am asking really honestly wondering not trying to argue ... no matter what you do if you have faith your saved is that right.... I have always been curious about this.

Oh and of course welcome to the site.

[Galatians220]

Your belief that salvation comes from faith alone..... so I am asking really honestly wondering not trying to argue ... no matter what you do if you have faith your saved is that right.... I have always been curious about this.

Oh and of course welcome to the site.

Um partly true, Salvation is not dependant on your duration of faith or how much. Faith Alone says that If you have made a decison for Christ, you place your faith on Him, you are saved (John 5:24, Romans 10:9-10).

By definition, faith is closely related to Believe. In Hebrews 11, it the author defines what Faith is:

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Its no problem I don't mind debating. Doctinal discussions are always good. :)

Thanks for the welcome statement, I appreciate that :)

Edited July 30, 2009 by Galatians220

[prospectmom]

In't ther a scripture in the Bible which states Faith without works is dead??????? We live in a small area but suprisingly it has 4 churches, onme baptist, one lutherin, one pennicostal, and one??? I am not sure basic christian I guess. All are wonderful people. So I am glad your here.

[Galatians220]

In't ther a scripture in the Bible which states Faith without works is dead??????? We live in a small area but suprisingly it has 4 churches, onme baptist, one lutherin, one pennicostal, and one??? I am not sure basic christian I guess. All are wonderful people. So I am glad your here.

Oh yes it does, its in James 2:14. Would you like to discuss that?

Its great that you have a diverse neighbors even if there is some disagreements :)

[prospectmom]

actually we all work together in spite of the religious sifferences........ I have to drive 50 miles to go to church so appreciatly my christian friends, who are quick with an I'll pray for you or a God Bless.

I am just wondering if you say on one hand the bible is pure.... and you have two scriptures that contradict one another or am I reading it wrong????

[Galatians220]

actually we all work together in spite of the religious sifferences........ I have to drive 50 miles to go to church so appreciatly my christian friends, who are quick with an I'll pray for you or a God Bless.

I am just wondering if you say on one hand the bible is pure.... and you have two scriptures that contradict one another or am I reading it wrong????

It all depends on the content of the two scriptures.... for example, the Protestants didn't add the 7 Catholic Deuterocannons (1 & 2 Maccabees, Tobit, Wisdom etc) because each one has a particular practice that is not recognized and or found in the Jewish scripture. Prayers to the Angels is one.

It is the same reason why we barred the gnostic text such as the Gospel of Thomas and others.

In dealing with fundamental teachings, If one text says God is the Trinity, and the other says, God is one, and Jesus is Not God's Son, then one has to be right and the other, wrong, there's no room for compromise.

[prospectmom]

WOW your way ahead of me on this one. I am gonna have to think about it.

[Galatians220]

WOW your way ahead of me on this one. I am gonna have to think about it.

OK, I'll be back later on; if you have any questions, feel free to post here or leave a comment at my profile.

God bless; I'm glad your neighbors are kind as well as loving :)

[prospectmom]

My neighbors aren't perfect but it seems we hav a respect that living in a rural area brings... very nice

You stated the Bible to be without error as it is now......

I asked how you deal with the contradictions of two scriptures... 1. the faith without works is dead one James 2:14 and Faith alone saves you John 5:24 and Romans 10: 9,10.

Your answer was too expound on how different faiths looked at some of the scriptures etc.......

How is the bible as it is now perfect if there are contradictions and How do you deal with these examples of such..... I have what I believe which is.

IF you have faith and believe that is enough is a true statement if you consider you would change believing in Christ and you would automatically have good works because of your faith.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Edited July 31, 2009 by prospectmom
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[Galatians220]

My neighbors aren't perfect but it seems we hav a respect that living in a rural area brings... very nice

You stated the Bible to be without error as it is now......

I asked how you deal with the contradictions of two scriptures... 1. the faith without works is dead one James 2:14 and Faith alone saves you John 5:24 and Romans 10: 9,10.

Your answer was too expound on how different faiths looked at some of the scriptures etc.......

How is the bible as it is now perfect if there are contradictions and How do you deal with these examples of such..... I have what I believe which is.

IF you have faith and believe that is enogh is a true statement if you concider you would change believing in Christ and you would automatically have good works because of your faith.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

I've asked you if you wanted to talk about that verse when you quoted James, your reply didn't seemed to show that you have had an interest in talking about it

I failed to see a, "yes", "no," implication directly regarding the verse; instead you wanted to talk about an instance of two scriptures which I have mistaken to be of something else you had in mind.

James 2:14

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Now the verses between James and John actually doesn't contradict; it is actually the case of a verse taken out of context. Here's the context:

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled;notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

- what does 15-16 has to do with using works to save oneself? Doesn't seemed to have anything to do with Salvation because it's giving an example of someone saying something but not proving it.

What's even more telling is verse 18:

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

- Now who's "Me" on that verse? God? No, because it says, "Yea, a man may say..."

The whole of James is talking about human relations beginning with being partial to the rich and not the poor prior to 2:14-26. If verse 14 is really talking about Salvation then there should have been a statement of eternal consenquece but it didn't.

Therefore, vs. 14 is not talking about Salvation because 15-16, and then 18, is talking about a well wisher, not PROVING his/her faith by action. What this really is, is a lesson on proving to people that you are a Christian through your works, not to God at all.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Galatians220

[prospectmom]

thank you... and I will make my intentions more clear in the future............

I see what your saying but I still believe that if you have faith, believe you will automatacally have good works to follow...... not to prove to anyone but to be a testiment to your faith . Do I make sense??? My grandma was christian and from a very early age taught me the bible.... She showed her faith by her actions not to prove to anyone but it was who she was........... Believing and having faith changes you so you automatacally have works anyway That is how I look at it and did even before I became a Mormon. Talk to you soon I enjoy the time you take with me.

Edited July 31, 2009 by prospectmom

[Galatians220]

thank you... and I will make my intentions more clear in the future............

I see what your saying but I still believe that if you have faith, believe you eill automatacally have goos works to follow...... not to prove to anyone but to be a testiment to your faith . Do I make sense??? My grandma was christian and from a very early age taught me the bible.... She showed her faith by her actions not to prove to anyone but it was who she was........... Believing and having faith changes you so you automatacally have works anyway That is how I look at it and did even before I became a Mormon. Talk to you soon I enjoy the time you take with me.

Your grandmother has done very well in her life by her actions... but that's not really the point of James 2:14, it not really about going going out of your way to prove you're saved, it is simply living your life by example. Your grandmother's life, speaks louder than words, and that is inspiring at all angles; her life is a testament of a changed heart.

What it is, is that if you say that you are a Christian, but you just stay home, or you simply attend church not helping others than over time, some in church might wonder about your faith

Now the one thing they can't do is to look through your heart and see that you truly believe. The only way they know you are a believer is through your works. Verse 14 actually reads like this:

"He said he believes, but he doesn't act like it, is he really Saved?"

When it comes to living a Christian life, faith and works do go hand-in-hand because each one strengthens the other. If your faith is strong, you will likely to obey or act. If you work, the result of your accomplishment through the Lord strengthens your faith.

However when it comes to salvation, works can never save. If you say you believe but have not accepted the free gift then you're on your own. You can never make it to heaven because it is impossible to be perfect.

You can live by faith, love, which fulfills the commandments, live by the fruit of the Spirit, but soon you will sin, and so there's no forgiveness after that because the free gift was denied:

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. - Romans 10:1-4

Edited July 31, 2009 by Galatians220