Fullness Of The Gentiles

[Traveler]

Part 1: COMPREHENDING SCRIPTURE

I intend to begin this thread with 4 posts. Logically I have divided the topic into 4 parts because it is long so it is divided to help make it understandable. The first part I call “Comprehending Scripture”. It is in essence how I view and comprehend scripture. Let us begin.

Ecclesiastes 1:9-11: “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be: and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? It hath been already of old time, which was before us.

There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.”

1. I do not believe in a single meaning for specific scripture. I do not believe G-d intended scripture to be understood in one dimension. I believe scriptures are more like an onion with layers of meaning, which as each are discovered leads to a new discovery.

2. The epochs told in scripture are not just a history of ancient past things. G-d does not just give us a view into the past, I believe that the scripture’s view of the past is a type and shadow that to comprehend our present and prepare for the future.

3. Therefore there are at least three dimensions of scripture, which reveal the past, explain the present and prophesy the future.

We are told that the knowledge (truth) from the past has been lost before and will be lost again. This is part of what is being said of Ecclesiastes 1:9-11 (see also D&C 93:24)

Within each of the dimensions of past, present and future there are more dimensions. Take for example the epoch of the children of Israel leaving Egypt in a journey to the Promised Land. As we consider the types and shadows from the past journey from Egypt we can come to better understand the time in which we now live with more dimensions of insight. We can gain insights into global events of nations establishing treaties and making war. We can gain understanding of others and their follies or acts of wisdom as an additional dimension.

We can also see Israel as a type and shadow of our self and our struggle for rebirth from putting off the world as symbolized by Egypt and becoming a spiritual child that is one with G-d symbolized by establishment of Israel in the Promised Land.

In addition to dimensions there are literary forms of scripture that also give depth to understand and by form add to the revelation and information given in scripture. For example there are structures like Parallelism, Rhetorical Connections, Metaphors and the Chiasm. There are also forms of speech such as “The Lawsuit”, “The Messenger speech”, “The Woe Oracle”, “The Prophetic Lament”, “The Priestly Sermon”, “The Song of Salvation” and “The Parable”. Each form and structure by its form and structure add something to scripture text and context.

Why does G-d bother with literary forms and structures and all this mambo jumbo stuff with hidden meanings? In Matthew 13:10-11 Jesus was asked this very question:

“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given”

In short there are “hidden treasures” in scripture that cannot be understood by the casual reader or the educated priest or the brilliant scholar. The secrets of scripture are hidden from the experts and are only understood by the students or disciples of the Christ. Or as Isaiah said to king Ahaz, “im lo ta aminu ki lo te amenu” which means in essence “if you do not understand and believe it is because you are lot loyal to G-d”.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Part 2 - WHO ARE THE GENTILES?

Understanding gentiles begins with the types and shadows given in scripture. Consider the epoch of Noah in Genesis chapters 6-10

The first type and shadow I ask you to consider is Noah in Genesis 6:9 -This type and shadow is Messianic. In other words Noah is a type and shadow of Christ. We learn of Noah, not so we can debate if there really was a global flood but so we can understand and comprehend part of the mission of Jesus and what took place when he walked the earth and what preparations are to be made for his return in the “Last Days”.

The next type and shadow of the Noah epoch is deliverance and salvation. The Ark is not just a big boat it is a type and shadow of the saving of mankind or salvation of man. (See Genesis 9:8-12).

Now we consider the type and shadow of the 3 sons of Noah. The number 3 is a number that pops up in many things in the scriptures concerning salvation. There are the 3 divisions of pre-existent spirit heaven, one of the three division followed Satan. And there are the 3 divisions of Resurrection types. The 3 sons of Noah are 3 types of paths or divisions of mankind living on earth and their salvation by the grace of G-d. In Genesis 9:18-27 we get some insight into the divisions. The first is Shem. He is the type and shadow of the “sheep of G-d”, the blessed of G-d and those of the covenant of G-d or if you will the children of Israel or the Church of Christ. (See Genesis 9:26).

Next is Japheth, which is the type and shadow of the “lost sheep” the one that lives in a “tent” without a permanent home, the vast majority of mankind scattered throughout the world. Japheth is the type and shadow for “Gentiles”. (See Genesis 9:27 and 10:2-5 note the word Gentiles in verse 5) At this point we should have an idea what a gentile is.

The last type is Ham and he is the type and shadow of the wolf that desecrates sacred things, the rebellious, the disobedient and the cursed. (See Genesis 9:22 and 25)

As it turns out the Gentiles (children of Japheth) play critical roles in the plan of G-d with Shem. The concept of reclaiming the “lost one” or the Gentile is a type and shadow used in many settings. Consider the parable of the “Prodigal Son” as Christ explains to the covenant type, children of Shem, Israel or the Church of Christ concerning their reaction to the “Fullness of the Gentiles” or when the Gentiles awake and realize that they belong to G-d. Also the parable of “The Good Samaritan” that indicates how G-d will use the gentiles to save the children of Shem (Israel or the remnant of the church of Christ) when they are rejected by their “Levites” and “Priests” or in other words their church institutions that has turned from G-d and no longer tend or care for the sheep.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Part 3 - THE JOSEPH AND EPHRAIM CONNECTION TO THE GENTILES

Joseph is a type and shadow of prophet that is taken from the covenant of Shem and converted or changed into a Gentle of Japheth heritage and as a “Prophet of the Gentiles” returns by the power of G-d to assist in the redemptions of the Shem type that has lost their blessings of G-d through a prolonged famine. Remember this is not just a history it is a key to understanding your struggles to find the blessings of G-d in our current world and a key to the future.

Because he is obedient Joseph is exalted above his brethren. (See Genesis 37:3) The coat of many colors is also a type. I think that it is in some ways the coat is a representation or type and shadow of scriptures or the “Word of G-d”. Anyway when the brethren of Joseph discover that Joseph has the key of prophesy, what is their reaction to a prophet? (See Genesis 37:4). One can see a type and shadow of Christ and the rejection by the Jews but there is more in this as it is played out in the “Last Days” as we shall see as the Joseph type begins to unfold.

Joseph is not accepted by his brothers. First they strip him of his coat (try to take away his blessings given by his father) not because they want it. They do not want it to be useful because they “rend it” and then they plot Joseph’s death. (See Gen 37:23-28). There is an interesting type in Gen 37:19-20: “Behold, this dreamer cometh…..let us slay him……and we shall see what will become of his dreams.” Think about how this type and shadow plays out in a “Joseph of the Last Days”. Anyway Joseph is forced from his home and family into a wilderness where he is expected to die and never be heard from again. Isn’t it interesting how this history repeats?

Next in the saga, Joseph becomes a servant in Egypt (See Gen 39:1) but this does not last and he is cast into prison (See Gen 39:20). By the wisdom of G-d Joseph is delivered from prison and exalted among the gentiles (See Gen 41:14 and 39-42). Finely Joseph becomes a full-fledged gentile as he is given a gentile name and marries a gentile wife (See Gen 41:45) (Note a name change anciently signified a change of status)

There is one more thing. Joseph has two Egyptian or gentile sons through his gentile wife, Manasseh and Ephraim (See Gen 41:50-52). Though they appear in every way to be Egyptian (gentile) these two sons have Hebrew hearts beating inside them. Especially Ephraim who, as a displaced gentile with the promise of G-d, becomes a type and shadow for fulfilling the prophesies of G-d in the last days.

In a prophecy concerning the decedents of Joseph we are given a type and shadow in Genesis 49:22: “Joseph is a fruitful bough even a fruitful bough by a well whose branches run over the wall. This tells us that there will be a lot of descendants of Joseph that will spread themselves beyond the established borders. In particular in reference to Ephraim we learn from Genesis 48:19 he will be greater than his older brother Manasseh “and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.”

Obviously the blessings of Joseph will be realized through Ephraim but there is an interesting phrase “multitude of nations”. In the original Hebrew it says “melo haggoyim”. The word melo’s literal meaning is fullness or fulfillment, the word “goyim” means gentiles though it is often translated in the English as “nations” or “heathen”. The construct of the two Hebrew nouns, including the definite article ha, literally means “the fullness/fulfillment of the Gentiles”. When will this take place? Look at Genesis 49:1 “And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.” In the last days through the seed of Ephraim G-d will cause a marvelous work to take place that will be known as the fullness and fulfillment of the Gentiles.

The prophet Hosea later adds to the prophecy concerning Ephraim among the gentiles. Hosea 7:8 “Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people, Ephraim is a cake not turned. The Hebrews (sons of Israel) made a kind of bread that is similar to a pancake. It was cooked on a griddle and then turned to the other side to finish cooking. The Hebrew text for “mixed himself among the people” is “ha ammim…yitbolal” “yitbolal” means to be assimilated and “ha ammim” means among the people or nations of the earth. Thus indicating that the seed Ephraim will become part of the gentiles as did Joseph and like Ephraim, the son of Joseph, will remain half-way a gentile and half part or remnant of Israel – thus the cake not turned.

I thought to show how Joseph delivers his brethren and how G-d changes their hearts but this is getting rather long and so I leave it as an exercise for the reader.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Part 3 - EPHRAIM AND THE PROPHSIES OF EZEKIEL

Let us consider Ezekiel 37 beginning with verse 16. “Moreover, thou son of man take thee one stick, and write upon it for Judah.” Like so many scriptures this has meaning upon meaning and depth upon depth. There is still debate among Christian and Jewish Scholars over the meaning of “Son of man”. There shouldn’t be, the phrase “son of” has to do with covenant and those that are proven in the covenant. (See D&C 84:33-34). I would point out that this little piece of information is conformed by the Dead Sea Scrolls in explaining “The Sons of Zadok”. What is the covenant by which one becomes a “Son of Man”? Note at this point that Jesus Christ made reference to himself as a “Son of Man” indicating his connection to this covenant.

For LDS that are loyal to their temple covenant the concept “Son of Man” is not difficult to understand and it will become apparent shortly. For other readers I will point you forward in Ezekiel a few chapters to a vision of a temple and make a reference that the covenant of discussion and the temple are closely related.

The Hebrew word for “Adam” and man have both parallels and similarities. Adam has a plural meaning that means man or mankind. To speak of the “sons of Adam” is the same as to speak of the “son of man”. I submit that the meaning of “Son of Man” is in reference to Adam and the covenant given to Adam when he was driven from the Garden of Eden. This covenant is Messianic and is the authority by which Adam offered sacrifice. Jesus used that title because it was by that authority that he came into the world to fulfill that covenant of sacrifice and end sacrifice by the shedding of blood. Under the promises of the covenant, redemption from the fall was prophesied to Adam and all his “children” when he was driven from the garden. The prophesy in Ezekiel 37 is also a commandment. This commandment is directed both to those with the authority of the covenant by which Adam first offered sacrifice. There are many to be known by endowment as sons of Adam (man), but this is specific to a particular time and place that would be known as the “Last Days”. In addition the words of Ezekiel are directed to those that seek this covenant with G-d in the “Last Days”.

The word that is given to us as “stick” can also be translated as “wood” or “tree”. In part this has to do with the Book of Mormon and is further explained in the Book of Mormon in a parable known as Zenos’ parable of the fig tree. The Book of Mormon is a record of a people of the house of Joseph that were brought to the Americas. But there is a type and a shadow here of greater importance. Verse 19. “I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with HIM, even the stick of Judah and they shall be one in mine hand”. The responsibility of seed of Joseph included records and covenants that would be in the “Hand of Ephraim” in the last days. Note too that the stick of Judah, which also includes the records and covenants of Judah are to be put into the hand of Ephraim, not the hand of Judah.

According to the scripture there are two reasons that this will take place. The first reason is because this is a work that that will be by G-d’s hand and not by the designs of men attempting a reformation. Verse 19 begins by saying, “Say unto them, Thus saith the L-rd G-d” and it ends by saying “and they shall be one in mine hand” meaning this is a work to be done by the command of G-d. The second reason is that the prophet G-d will call will be a “son of man” of the seed of Ephraim that will seek out and gather the sheep of G-d (both of the house of Joseph and Judah) by the power and authority of G-d. All gentile nations throughout the entire world will be involved in this gathering. Verse 21: “I will take the children of Israel from the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them”

There are many types and shadows in scripture concerning this gathering in the last days. Moses gathering the children of Israel out of Egypt and taking them to the Promised Land is one type and shadow. In addition there are prophesies by Daniel, Isaiah, John and others that provide more revelation concerning this event to take place in the last days, including where this gathering will take place. Among these prophesies is a warning to those that oppose this work. The warning is that when the “sons of Levi” offer again an offering of righteous unto the L-rd that those that oppose G-d will be “bound with chains” and cast into a pit for a thousand years while Christ reigns with his sheep that were gathered.

If you have not heard of the “Ensign” being raised by the seed of Ephraim as a call to the gentile nations of the earth to which you ought to gather, I suggest you start looking. According to Isaiah it will take place at the “Top of the Mountains”. (See Isahia 2:2). The word “Utah” in the language of the Ute Indians literally means “Top of the Mountains”. If anyone has a better answer for the fulfillment of scriptural prophesy I would be very interested in your explanation

The Traveler

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Wow thank you.... I am going to take my time with this.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Traveler@Sep 13 2005, 05:26 PM

Part 1: COMPREHENDING SCRIPTURE

I intend to begin this thread with 4 posts.  Logically I have divided the topic into 4 parts because it is long so it is divided to help make it understandable.  The first part I call “Comprehending Scripture”.  It is in essence how I view and comprehend scripture.  Let us begin.

Ecclesiastes 1:9-11:  “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be: and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? It hath been already of old time, which was before us.

There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.”

1. I do not believe in a single meaning for specific scripture.  I do not believe G-d intended scripture to be understood in one dimension.  I believe scriptures are more like an onion with layers of meaning, which as each are discovered leads to a new discovery.

2. The epochs told in scripture are not just a history of ancient past things.  G-d does not just give us a view into the past, I believe that the scripture’s view of the past is a type and shadow that to comprehend our present and prepare for the future. 

3. Therefore there are at least three dimensions of scripture, which reveal the past, explain the present and prophesy the future.

We are told that the knowledge (truth) from the past has been lost before and will be lost again.  This is part of what is being said of Ecclesiastes 1:9-11 (see also D&C 93:24)

Within each of the dimensions of past, present and future there are more dimensions.  Take for example the epoch of the children of Israel leaving Egypt in a journey to the Promised Land.  As we consider the types and shadows from the past journey from Egypt we can come to better understand the time in which we now live with more dimensions of insight.  We can gain insights into global events of nations establishing treaties and making war.  We can gain understanding of others and their follies or acts of wisdom as an additional dimension.

We can also see Israel as a type and shadow of our self and our struggle for rebirth from putting off the world as symbolized by Egypt and becoming a spiritual child that is one with G-d symbolized by establishment of Israel in the Promised Land.

In addition to dimensions there are literary forms of scripture that also give depth to understand and by form add to the revelation and information given in scripture.  For example there are structures like Parallelism, Rhetorical Connections, Metaphors and the Chiasm.  There are also forms of speech such as “The Lawsuit”, “The Messenger speech”, “The Woe Oracle”, “The Prophetic Lament”, “The Priestly Sermon”, “The Song of Salvation” and “The Parable”.  Each form and structure by its form and structure add something to scripture text and context.

Why does G-d bother with literary forms and structures and all this mambo jumbo stuff with hidden meanings?  In Matthew 13:10-11 Jesus was asked this very question:

“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given”

In short there are “hidden treasures” in scripture that cannot be understood by the casual reader or the educated priest or the brilliant scholar.  The secrets of scripture are hidden from the experts and are only understood by the students or disciples of the Christ.  Or as Isaiah said to king Ahaz, “im lo ta aminu ki lo te amenu” which means in essence “if you do not understand and believe it is because you are not loyal to G-d”.

The Traveler

←

The interesting thing about this is, I am writing a book of my own personal history starting with my grand parents and parents because I was told somewhat of their history and I see in real life these same kinds of foreshadowing of future events...

Life is truly a mystery and a treasure and understanding it only takes this long viewed perspective.

And I especially like this line:

The secrets of scripture are hidden from the experts and are only understood by the students or disciples of the Christ. Or as Isaiah said to king Ahaz, “im lo ta aminu ki lo te amenu” which means in essence “if you do not understand and believe it is because you are not loyal to G-d”.

This is so true.

[Jason]

Hey Traveler,

You know I respect the devotion you have for your faith. But to say that there are people who don't understand god, means that either god is defective, or that the written word is defective.

I believe it is an either or situation. (Im sure you disagree.)

That's why I love this quote of Thomas Paine's:

"When we contemplate the immensity of that Being who directs and governs the incomprehensible WHOLE, of which the utmost ken of human sight can discover but a part, we ought to feel shame at calling such paltry stores the word of God."

Have a great day.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 14 2005, 10:49 AM

Hey Traveler,

You know I respect the devotion you have for your faith.  But to say that there are people who don't understand god, means that either god is defective, or that the written word is defective. 

I believe it is an either or situation. (Im sure you disagree.) 

That's why I love this quote of Thomas Paine's:

"When we contemplate the immensity of that Being who directs and governs the incomprehensible WHOLE, of which the utmost ken of human sight can discover but a part, we ought to feel shame at calling such paltry stores the word of God."

Have a great day.

←

I have no idea what you are referring to in my posts of this thread or what it is you think I believe.

What I do not believe is that anyone not loyal to G-d can understand G-d or the things of G-d. Man on his own cannot understand the scriptures or G-d (See 1Cor 2:11-14)

But since you made no reference to any scripture to make any of your points I assume that either you lack understanding of scripture (or as you say "G-d's written word) or you do not believe it is worthy of quoting - expecially compaired to the words of Thomas Paine.

The Traveler

[Ray]

Originally posted by Jason

…to say that there are people who don't understand god, means that either god is defective, or that the written word is defective.

Are you saying that God is defective, or His words are defective, simply because some people don’t understand God or His words?

That’s an interesting idea, but I disagree, and I don’t think you are considering the complexity of language and what is involved when trying to understand someone.

For instance, the apostle Paul said this:

Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us [his saints] by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we [the saints] have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we [the saints] speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we [the saints] have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:9-16

Now, do you completely understand what Paul meant enough to be able to rephrase what he said in your own words? I'd really like to see that, line by line. And when you’re finished, I’ll let you know if I think you are in agreement with the apostle Paul.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Traveler+Sep 14 2005, 04:57 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Sep 14 2005, 10:49 AM

Hey Traveler,

You know I respect the devotion you have for your faith.  But to say that there are people who don't understand god, means that either god is defective, or that the written word is defective. 

I believe it is an either or situation. (Im sure you disagree.) 

That's why I love this quote of Thomas Paine's:

"When we contemplate the immensity of that Being who directs and governs the incomprehensible WHOLE, of which the utmost ken of human sight can discover but a part, we ought to feel shame at calling such paltry stores the word of God."

Have a great day.

←

I have no idea what you are referring to in my posts of this thread or what it is you think I believe.

What I do not believe is that anyone not loyal to G-d can understand G-d or the things of G-d. Man on his own cannot understand the scriptures or G-d (See 1Cor 2:11-14)

But since you made no reference to any scripture to make any of your points I assume that either you lack understanding of scripture (or as you say "G-d's written word) or you do not believe it is worthy of quoting - expecially compaired to the words of Thomas Paine.

The Traveler

←

I was going off of Peace's post previous to mine.

I am loyal to God in the sense that I respect God's creation. I have wrongly assumed that you've read my blog post "The Word of God?"

Perhaps you'll better understand what Im talking about if you read that.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Ray+Sep 14 2005, 05:42 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason

…to say that there are people who don't understand god, means that either god is defective, or that the written word is defective.

Are you saying that God is defective, or His words are defective, simply because some people don’t understand God or His words?

That’s an interesting idea, but I disagree, and I don’t think you are considering the complexity of language and what is involved when trying to understand someone.

I don't believe that the Creator is defective. I believe that the gods of men (like Zeus, Jesus, Jehovah, Elohim, Osiris, Baal, etc) are defective.

For instance, the apostle Paul said this:

Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us [his saints] by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we [the saints] have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we [the saints] speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we [the saints] have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:9-16

Now, do you completely understand what Paul meant enough to be able to rephrase what he said in your own words? I'd really like to see that, line by line. And when you’re finished, I’ll let you know if I think you are in agreement with the apostle Paul.

←

I don't care to be judged by you, or your personal understanding of Paul's writings.

If you want my take on this, see my blog "The Word of God?"

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Jason+Sep 14 2005, 07:40 PM-->

Originally posted by Traveler@Sep 14 2005, 04:57 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Sep 14 2005, 10:49 AM

Hey Traveler,

You know I respect the devotion you have for your faith.  But to say that there are people who don't understand god, means that either god is defective, or that the written word is defective. 

I believe it is an either or situation. (Im sure you disagree.) 

That's why I love this quote of Thomas Paine's:

"When we contemplate the immensity of that Being who directs and governs the incomprehensible WHOLE, of which the utmost ken of human sight can discover but a part, we ought to feel shame at calling such paltry stores the word of God."

Have a great day.

←

I have no idea what you are referring to in my posts of this thread or what it is you think I believe.

What I do not believe is that anyone not loyal to G-d can understand G-d or the things of G-d. Man on his own cannot understand the scriptures or G-d (See 1Cor 2:11-14)

But since you made no reference to any scripture to make any of your points I assume that either you lack understanding of scripture (or as you say "G-d's written word) or you do not believe it is worthy of quoting - expecially compaired to the words of Thomas Paine.

The Traveler

←

I was going off of Peace's post previous to mine.

I am loyal to God in the sense that I respect God's creation. I have wrongly assumed that you've read my blog post "The Word of God?"

Perhaps you'll better understand what Im talking about if you read that.

←

I am sorry I misunderstand your post. It would help when you are addressing me that you do not refer to someone else's post without telling me what you are doing. That can be most confusing.

I still have no idea what your point is. It appears to be that since we cannot understand we should not try or attempt to help anyone else understand. But if that is true I do not understand why you post.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Where is the blog post "The Word of G-d"?

The Traveler

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason@Sep 14 2005, 11:49 AM

Hey Traveler,

You know I respect the devotion you have for your faith.  But to say that there are people who don't understand god, means that either god is defective, or that the written word is defective. 

I believe it is an either or situation. (Im sure you disagree.) 

That's why I love this quote of Thomas Paine's:

"When we contemplate the immensity of that Being who directs and governs the incomprehensible WHOLE, of which the utmost ken of human sight can discover but a part, we ought to feel shame at calling such paltry stores the word of God."

Have a great day.

←

Why does this quote of Thomas's not have the reference to the bible or whatever he is referring to. Are you afraid to give us the context of this quote because it would totally destroy the meaning you wanted us to derive from it???

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Traveler@Sep 14 2005, 09:53 PM

Where is the blog post "The Word of G-d"?

The Traveler

←

I'm not sure... but I would like to ask you a couple of questions tomorrow when I have more time...

One right now... Where would I find more on these... I have not heard of them before..

“The Lawsuit”, “The Messenger speech”, “The Woe Oracle”, “The Prophetic Lament”, “The Priestly Sermon”, “The Song of Salvation”

At least under these titles... are they like the Psalms and Proverbs etc?

Also.... could you direct me to your post that told about the creation of Zeus and other Greek gods... I read it here... and I think you posted it... but I don't know where it is..