Self Proclaming GAY MORMONS

[Islander]

That is just hard to believe, Im sorry. Being Naturally Homosexual but still enter in to a Hetro marriage and still being Happy? I just think gender attraction has far more reaching implications to make this type of a freak show plausible. I mean marriage is ETERNAL!! Hes NEVER going to be attracted to his ETERNAL Spouse. Or in Heaven is the Homo suddenly magically going to be attracted to his wife or females for that matter?

Our families are supposed to be structured like HFs family and will last forever.

Ok so im goin for broke now.

The scriptures say that spiritual gender has always existed. Are the homos female spirits inside a mans body? or are they male spirits trapped in side a body that is chemically malfunctioning to be attracted to the male essence.

This is as close to an answer has I can find.

This isue has been debated at nauseum in this forum and once in a while is resurrected by someone. They should compile all the threads somewhere and point to them, for the interested.

With transgression came sin and with it mortality and physical imperfection, illness and death. All variations from the physical norm are the outcome of this mortal condition. We do not know everything when it comes to gender/identity issues. The debate is framed in terms of "rights" vs social norms and order. There is NO theological debate as far as the LDS are concerned when it comes to this issue.

The Lord reveals line upon line, precept upon precept. Here a little and there a little. The doctrine has been laid out before us for almost 200 years. The Lord has spoken in regards to these issues long ago and has not changed His mind in regards to them. You may or may not agree with what the Lord has to say in terms of behavior and expectations. And you are certainly free to use your agency as you see fit. We acknowledge that your struggle is long and mighty. But so it is for those who suffer from other permanent disabilities and pernicious disorders.

[bytor2112]

That is just hard to believe, Im sorry. Being Naturally Homosexual but still enter in to a Hetro marriage and still being Happy? I just think gender attraction has far more reaching implications to make this type of a freak show plausible. I mean marriage is ETERNAL!! Hes NEVER going to be attracted to his ETERNAL Spouse. Or in Heaven is the Homo suddenly magically going to be attracted to his wife or females for that matter?

Our families are supposed to be structured like HFs family and will last forever.

Ok so im goin for broke now.

The scriptures say that spiritual gender has always existed. Are the homos female spirits inside a mans body? or are they male spirits trapped in side a body that is chemically malfunctioning to be attracted to the male essence.

This is as close to an answer has I can find.

Will the blind be made to see? Or the deaf to hear? The child born with severe learning defects......will they not be made whole? To suggest that the Atonement of Jesus Christ can't heal any and all shows a lack of understanding of the Atonement.

Homosexuality is a Spiritual sickness and can be arrested and cured through Faith in Jesus Christ. If that is not true, then the Gospel is not true. Easy? Probably not.

Once we give in to a temptation, whether it is to fornicate, masturbate, look at pornography or act on unnatural desires like homosexuality, it is increasingly easy to do so and to justify the action. Society has made it easy to to break the law of chastity and the great pernicious lie of the adversary is that it's normal and natural to be homosexual.

Sincere repentance and Faith and time are the key to overcoming ALL sin, including homosexuality.

[BenRaines]

Ophio, this is a question I asked myself over the years. Pride is not a positive attribute. Pride as I have heard it defined is to relish being better than someone.

I always have told my children that I am very pleased with their behavior, success, whatever it is that I am pleased that they do. I am not Proud. Proud, for me, is a feeling of superiority.

For this reason I can see The Father saying that he is well pleased in his Son.

Ben Raines

[MarginOfError]

That is just hard to believe, Im sorry. Being Naturally Homosexual but still enter in to a Hetro marriage and still being Happy? I just think gender attraction has far more reaching implications to make this type of a freak show plausible. I mean marriage is ETERNAL!! Hes NEVER going to be attracted to his ETERNAL Spouse. Or in Heaven is the Homo suddenly magically going to be attracted to his wife or females for that matter?

Our families are supposed to be structured like HFs family and will last forever.

Ok so im goin for broke now.

The scriptures say that spiritual gender has always existed. Are the homos female spirits inside a mans body? or are they male spirits trapped in side a body that is chemically malfunctioning to be attracted to the male essence.

This is as close to an answer has I can find.

I think you over-simplify the homo/hetero issue. You seem to classify people into the being either homosexual or heterosexual. This binary state is artificial.

I will disagree with bytor when he says that homosexuality is a spiritual sickness--at least in part. There may be some spiritual ailing there, but I believe that a large part of it is indeed physical. And I'm convinced that no one is pure homosexual or pure heterosexual. More likely, there are varying degrees, and you could say that we all have a mixture of homosexual and heterosexual tendencies.

For whatever reason, and it's my opinion that this is due to a long and complex interaction of genetic variables, some people have are more susceptible to same sex attraction*. We're not talking about a binary state, but about a continuum, or a spectrum measuring highly susceptible to not susceptible.

Using this paradigm, I interpret the message of the 'gay rights' movement to be, essentially, "we don't feel we should have to fight against our own weaknesses." This is absolutely contrary to the Gospel message.

This paradigm is also consistent with Elder Holland's Ensign article about dealing with same sex attraction. In it he states that some people who experience same sex attraction may be fortunate enough to be able to marry someone of the opposite gender, raise families, and continue in life as heterosexuals. However, this is not a solution for all, and encouraging homosexuals to enter into heterosexual marriages should not be standard practice. A person who is highly susceptible to same sex attraction, and therefore finds the opposite gender unappealing, would have a very difficult time making a heterosexual marriage work. Elder Holland's Talk

The key to this is to remember that these attractions are very real and very powerful. We do not and cannot understand how difficult the struggle is for another person. Therefore, we must not judge them. Only Christ can adequately judge the person's work with all of the proper considerations.

As Islander said, with the Fall came all manner of imperfections in our mortal body. How is this one any different from a susceptibility to alcoholism, paranoia, or an inability to keep oneself organized? Homosexuals are not male spirits in female bodies; they are just spirits in imperfect bodies.

Regarding the spiritual illness that bytor mentioned, I'm inclined to think this is a societal illness. In coming to accept homosexuality as 'normal,' I fear that many people who would be capable of managing heterosexual relations will now choose the homosexual relation because they don't fear societal backlash**.

I could go on for a while, but I think I've said enough for now. Time to unload groceries.

*Notice my choice of words. I do not believe genetics makes a person heterosexual or homosexual, but only makes them more susceptible to certain cravings, attractions, or desires.

**By the way, it's good that there isn't a societal backlash. But we should be careful not to confuse 'natural' with 'normal'.

[Ophiophagus]

thanks MOE

I disagree and agree with different parts to all our opinions.

I never get upset debating usually. (and I am Not)Insult is harbored by the weak. And every once in great while I get this hair to talk to someone besides my wife. Who is way to strong to even worry about this stuff. She feels the sorrow to but not the anger like me. And honestly I dont feel anger over the Gays, it was just a question. So I come to a forum. But im sorry I will be leaving. unfortunately and fortunately I always come to a conclusion quickly and not by choice that makes these forums moot.

This is similar to my Political Forum "hair." I wanted to Rage about how sad abortion is and how there shouldn't even be any debating about it. I say "sad" only after I went through all the stages of Rage and Anger. I read a lot, I mean a LOT of Pro-Choice(murder) threads. And in one single day I realized that there will never be any changing of there minds or hearts. I cried for those babies who would and will be abandoned and murdered in cold blood by the very ones that should be loving and nurturing them.

MOE did make me realize the one thing that will send me packin (which I have always Known and believed but its nice to be reminded),

That the scriptures "Old, New, and Current Prophecy" Hold all the answers We need.

Thanks all.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Ophiophagus

[LDSVALLEY]

I believe God wants us to make up our minds and solidity our opinions and beliefs.

I believe God wants us to be either Hot or Cold.

I believe you like to avoid problems. (No Offense)

NO offense taken I had a good chuckle. Actually I enjoy good debates and searching for answers to problems. This is just one of those threads where there is no real answer other then leaving it to God for final judgement. It is also one that is going down many different pathways. It is a topic that, without intent, can cause ill feelings and weaken testimonies of many.

I believe I am a Mormon because I do my best to follow the guidelines of the church and council of the Prophet. Otherwise I believe I am being a Mormon in name only. Others have a different interpretation of this. It has no effect on my salvation because it is between them and God

I believe God wants us to be united against the ills of the world and make up our minds to follow his will which might not be our opinions or beliefs. After all ours are based on our limited world view and not his eternal one.

Problems are a way to learn and grow avoiding them leaves us ignorant and weak so no I don't try to avoid them. However I am careful to show respect to others opinions and beliefs. I have been on many sites where "Mormons" end up being angry and attacking others comments. I try to expound my position or belief but don't have the expectation of changing anyone elses. Nor will they change mine unless Heavenly Father directs it be so. That is not avoiding problems but respecting opinions not my own.

The purpose of my last comment was having been to watch General Conference then reading through the last few posts prior to my previous one I felt sad that one setting had created harmony, spiritual uplift and growth while this thread was upsetting people and decreasing some spirits.

So I stated what I believed. (which by the way is not hot or cold but direct :) )