When You Post, Do You Post With Love?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Maureen,Oct 3 2005, 06:38 PM

Ray,Oct 3 2005, 04:19 PM]

Here is something from your own church's publication:

That knowledge helps us in relationships where there are differences that do matter—differences involving values, principles, truth, and the confirming religious experience we call testimony. We should hold to truth, but it should not be a barrier to tolerance and compassion and love. To accept and love others, we do not have to adopt their ideas or be condescending. When others differ from us in these essential matters, we must learn to understand that which separates people from their traditions. Good people can have mistaken beliefs.

Moreover, having truth in our possession, knowing righteous and true principles doesn’t automatically make a Latter-day Saint better or more righteous than others. It could have that effect—but it is living what we know, not knowing alone, that is really important. Joseph Smith taught us: “All the religious world is boasting of righteousness: It is the doctrine of the devil to retard the human mind, and hinder our progress, by filling us with self-righteousness. The nearer we get to our Heavenly Father, the more we will look with compassion on perishing souls; we feel that we want to take them upon our shoulders, and cast their sins behind our backs. … If you would have God have mercy on you, have mercy on one another.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected by Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1977, page 241.)

The gospel teaches us not to condemn our brothers and sisters for their weaknesses and sins, but to show them by our lives how it is possible to escape sin through learning and living the truth. Satan must laugh when we condemn and criticize others or judge them unrighteously.

Ann N. Madsen, “Tolerance, the Beginning of Christlike Love,” Tambuli, Apr. 1989, 27

M

This was very good Maureen... but do we actually know what compassion looks like when put into action? Sometimes I think people mistakenly think tolerance to the extreme is compassion... and righteousness...

True compassion has an eternal perspective... and how we act upon our looking upon the perishing souls... and working towards essaying to casst their sins behind our backs... is not put into any concrete examples... so how do you judge that that isn't what we are doing?

Now in asking these questions, I am in no way pointing any fingers... or saying that you are a perishing soul...

Nor am I saying that what JS said wasn't valid.... I would just like to see something concrete... not just some mediforic phrases...

[Heather]

Yes. I don't remember him having a whip then either, unless you're talking about certain artist's depiction of him cleaning the temple, which I wouldn't classify as scripture, but mere imagery to show interpretation.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Heather@Oct 3 2005, 07:55 PM

Yes. I don't remember him having a whip then either, unless you're talking about certain artist's depiction of him cleaning the temple, which I wouldn't classify as scripture, but mere imagery to show interpretation.

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I'll look it upp...

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Please+Oct 3 2005, 08:22 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Heather@Oct 3 2005, 07:55 PM

Yes. I don't remember him having a whip then either, unless you're talking about certain artist's depiction of him cleaning the temple, which I wouldn't classify as scripture, but mere imagery to show interpretation.

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I'll look it upp...

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Heather...

John 2: 14-15

14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;

[john doe]

The question is, is that the kind of behavior that Jesus engaged in on a regular basis, or is it something that He only did on rare occasions when He became righteously indignant? Did He teach that the best way to teach others is to degrade through insults or snide remarks and a take-it-or-leave-it attitude?

That's not the Jesus I look up to and wish to emulate through my actions. I prefer to think that He would want me be treat others with respect and dignity. I may not be very successful much of the time, but it is something I think is a good goal to work towards.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by john doe@Oct 3 2005, 08:56 PM

The question is, is that the kind of behavior that Jesus engaged in on a regular basis, or is it something that He only did on rare occasions when He became righteously indignant? Did He teach that the best way to teach others is to degrade through insults or snide remarks and a take-it-or-leave-it attitude?

That's not the Jesus I look up to and wish to emulate through my actions. I prefer to think that He would want me be treat others with respect and dignity. I may not be very successful much of the time, but it is something I think is a good goal to work towards.

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He did this particular 'thing' twice within a short amount of time... as well as these attacks ....

Matt. 23: 13

13 ¶ But woe unto you, ascribes and bPharisees, chypocrites•! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Matt. 23: 14

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye adevour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater bdamnation.

Matt. 23: 15

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell athan• yourselves.

Matt. 23: 23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, ahypocrites! for ye pay btithe of mint and canise• and cummin, and have domitted• the weightier matters of the law, ejudgment, fmercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Matt. 23: 25

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of aextortion• and bexcess•.

Matt. 23: 27

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto awhited• bsepulchres•, which indeed appear cbeautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all duncleanness.

Matt. 23: 29

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

[Heather]

Thanks Please. I really never recalled that.

Fact still remains to me that we are not Christ and we cannot see or understand all; I have yet to read anywhere which God or God's Prophets have said to the general members of the Church for us to take up a whip towards our fellow men. I've never heard anything that suggests that it is okay to disrespect one another and not show love towards one another. Using your line of thinking, would you also say that it would be okay to kill someone, because Nephi did? Just because God commands something of one person at one point in time, doesn't make it right for us to use that as a justification for us to carry-out the same act at another point in time.

[john doe]

Originally posted by Please+Oct 3 2005, 08:10 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-john doe@Oct 3 2005, 08:56 PM

The question is, is that the kind of behavior that Jesus engaged in on a regular basis, or is it something that He only did on rare occasions when He became righteously indignant? Did He teach that the best way to teach others is to degrade through insults or snide remarks and a take-it-or-leave-it attitude?

That's not the Jesus I look up to and wish to emulate through my actions. I prefer to think that He would want me be treat others with respect and dignity. I may not be very successful much of the time, but it is something I think is a good goal to work towards.

←

He did this particular 'thing' twice within a short amount of time... as well as these attacks ....

Matt. 23: 13

13 ¶ But woe unto you, ascribes and bPharisees, chypocrites•! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Matt. 23: 14

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye adevour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater bdamnation.

Matt. 23: 15

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell athan• yourselves.

Matt. 23: 23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, ahypocrites! for ye pay btithe of mint and canise• and cummin, and have domitted• the weightier matters of the law, ejudgment, fmercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Matt. 23: 25

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of aextortion• and bexcess•.

Matt. 23: 27

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto awhited• bsepulchres•, which indeed appear cbeautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all duncleanness.

Matt. 23: 29

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

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So, you agree that He engaged in this activity rarely, and not on a regular basis? The examples you quote are all in one small portion of the Gospels, I think He may have spent a majority of His time building up others, not tearing them down. I don't Jesus would have been very effective in the short time He was on earth if He spent all His time treating them poorly.

The Jesus you describe is not the loving man I know Him to be. Maybe you spend too much time focusing on the hurtful parts of His persona, and not enough time on the wonderful, loving parts of His persona. Seems to me He said something about loving others, but maybe that was just my misreading of the Bible? Will you not even concede that Jesus wants us to be nice to each other? That He, and His prophets, have told us to try to be kind to others once in a while? Do you really believe He wants us to be a contentious people?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by john doe+Oct 3 2005, 11:00 PM-->

Originally posted by Please@Oct 3 2005, 08:10 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-john doe@Oct 3 2005, 08:56 PM

The question is, is that the kind of behavior that Jesus engaged in on a regular basis, or is it something that He only did on rare occasions when He became righteously indignant? Did He teach that the best way to teach others is to degrade through insults or snide remarks and a take-it-or-leave-it attitude?

That's not the Jesus I look up to and wish to emulate through my actions. I prefer to think that He would want me be treat others with respect and dignity. I may not be very successful much of the time, but it is something I think is a good goal to work towards.

←

He did this particular 'thing' twice within a short amount of time... as well as these attacks ....

Matt. 23: 13

13 ¶ But woe unto you, ascribes and bPharisees, chypocrites•! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Matt. 23: 14

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye adevour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater bdamnation.

Matt. 23: 15

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell athan• yourselves.

Matt. 23: 23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, ahypocrites! for ye pay btithe of mint and canise• and cummin, and have domitted• the weightier matters of the law, ejudgment, fmercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Matt. 23: 25

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of aextortion• and bexcess•.

Matt. 23: 27

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto awhited• bsepulchres•, which indeed appear cbeautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all duncleanness.

Matt. 23: 29

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

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So, you agree that He engaged in this activity rarely, and not on a regular basis? The examples you quote are all in one small portion of the Gospels, I think He may have spent a majority of His time building up others, not tearing them down. I don't Jesus would have been very effective in the short time He was on earth if He spent all His time treating them poorly.

The Jesus you describe is not the loving man I know Him to be. Maybe you spend too much time focusing on the hurtful parts of His persona, and not enough time on the wonderful, loving parts of His persona. Seems to me He said something about loving others, but maybe that was just my misreading of the Bible? Will you not even concede that Jesus wants us to be nice to each other? That He, and His prophets, have told us to try to be kind to others once in a while? Do you really believe He wants us to be a contentious people?

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Okay... whatever... but here is another scripture... For whom the Lord loveth he achasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

So... following Christ and loving them as He loves them.... are we to not speak up and witness and testify and even chastise if we love people...?

I can't see where anyone here is being offended by me... unless they are guilty and are offended by their own guilt ... pointing the blame for their pain on me...

I have said things that were totally innocent and have had people say I was being totally harsh... it was all in their own minds.

Really... you all need to consider why you feel offended... try looking within yourselves before you look to me to blame...

[Maureen]

In regards to Matthew 23 - I would never compare Jesus’ chastising of the Pharisees for their hypocrisies as the same as him teaching his loyal and sincere followers about the Kingdom of God. The Pharisees were truly against Jesus’ mission, but his followers admired and revered him.

M.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Maureen@Oct 6 2005, 12:16 PM

In regards to Matthew 23 - I would never compare Jesus’ chastising of the Pharisees for their hypocrisies as the same as him teaching his loyal and sincere followers about the Kingdom of God. The Pharisees were truly against Jesus’ mission, but his followers admired and revered him.

M.

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Interesting you should make that distinction... because that is what I find on this board... those who are sincere followers of the LDS faith...... and those who are truly against the mission of the church and its teachings...

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Please@Oct 6 2005, 11:30 AM

Interesting you should make that distinction... because that is what I find on this board... those who are sincere followers of the LDS faith......  and those who are truly against the mission of the church and its teachings...

I doubt you can even count on one hand the posters that come here that are sincerely against the LDS church. Some may not agree with it's doctrine but that doesn't mean they're against it. Most non-LDS posters here have a "live and let live" attitude. Now I might question some of the LDS posters here that judge these non-LDS posters incorrectly. They assume because they are not LDS they are automatically against them - not true.

M.

[Ray]

Careful, Please.

Some people are offended when you show them they're wrong, and Heather only wants us to show people they're wrong in some way which will not offend them.

And while I think that is impossible, Heather does not agree.

Oh, and don't forget to show respect to people who are wrong.

Heather likes that too.

[Maureen]

Ray, you must be sitting on your prickley chair. That's why you're so ornary. Find something more comfy and then you'll see that things aren't as bad as you make them out to be.

M.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Maureen@Oct 6 2005, 11:56 AM

Ray, you must be sitting on your prickley chair. That's why you're so ornary. Find something more comfy and then you'll see that things aren't as bad as you make them out to be. 

M.

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Please provide references to back up your claims. I see no reason to believe you.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Ray+Oct 6 2005, 11:57 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Maureen@Oct 6 2005, 11:56 AM

Ray, you must be sitting on your prickley chair. That's why you're so ornary. Find something more comfy and then you'll see that things aren't as bad as you make them out to be. 

Please provide references to back up your claims. I see no reason to believe you.

That's because the ornary person is in complete denial that they are in fact ornary.

M.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Maureen+Oct 6 2005, 11:59 AM-->

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 6 2005, 11:57 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Maureen@Oct 6 2005, 11:56 AM

Ray, you must be sitting on your prickley chair. That's why you're so ornary. Find something more comfy and then you'll see that things aren't as bad as you make them out to be. 

Please provide references to back up your claims. I see no reason to believe you.

That's because the ornary person is in complete denial that they are in fact ornary.

M.

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POT ... CALLS ... KETTLE ... BLACK. Oh where will it end. :)