Heaven or Planet?

[pam]

Okay found what I was looking for. When Lorenzo Snow was a Prophet, the saints in St. George were having a horrible drought. He went to visit the saints there and while there he had a revelation. Here are the words he spoke:

At St. George, President Snow received a marvelous revelation. He was told that if the Saints would live the existing law of tithing, the Church as a whole and the Saints individually would be blessed and their financial problems would be less. Said President Snow:

“The time has now come for every Latter-day Saint, who calculates to be prepared for the future and to hold his feet strong upon a proper foundation, to do the will of the Lord and to pay his tithing in full. That is the word of the Lord to you, and it will be the word of the Lord to every settlement throughout the land of Zion. After I leave you [the people in St. George] and you get to thinking about this, you will see yourselves that the time has come when every man should stand up and pay his tithing in full. The Lord has blessed us and has had mercy upon us in the past; but there are times coming when the Lord requires us to stand up and do that which He has commanded and not leave it any longer. What I say to you in this stake of Zion I will say to every stake of Zion that has been organized. There is no man or woman that now hears what I am saying who will feel satisfied if he or she fails to pay a full tithing (18 May 1899, MS, 61:533.)” (Lorenzo Snow, The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, Clyde J. Williams, comp. [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1984], p. 155).

President Snow then promised the Saints in St. George that the Lord would send them rain. They had been suffering from a terrible drought.

[pam]

Thanks for that...Let's just add it on here as well...

What does it mean by paying all their interest though?

Victor L. Brown

On March 19, 1970, the First Presidency sent the following letter to presidents of stakes and missions, bishops of wards, and presidents of branches in answer to the question, “What is a proper tithe?”

“For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.” (“I Have a Question,” Ensign, Apr. 1974, 17)

[curtishouse]

Victor L. Brown

“For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.” (“I Have a Question,” Ensign, Apr. 1974, 17)

It seems to me that there is something contradictory in this statement. It states that no one is justified in making any other statement than this (that members of the church should pay 1/10 of their income). But then it states that "We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.”

Maybe you can shed some light on that.

[pam]

Okay perspective according to Pam. Not doctrine. There are always discussions on whether 10% is based on gross or net..whether you pay on gifts, numerous other things. We've been told to pay 10% of our increase. When we profess to our Bishop that we feel we are full tithe payors, he doesn't ask us to prove what we made. Or what our increase is. If we feel in our hearts that we have paid a full tithe then that's it. Really tithing is between ourselves and the Lord. Of course we also believe in being honest. Not sure I would want to lie to Heavenly Father concerning this.

The Church doesn't have it laid out in black and white. Strictly 10%. It is up to us what we feel is an honest tithe.

[curtishouse]

Okay perspective according to Pam. Not doctrine. There are always discussions on whether 10% is based on gross or net..whether you pay on gifts, numerous other things. We've been told to pay 10% of our increase. When we profess to our Bishop that we feel we are full tithe payors, he doesn't ask us to prove what we made. Or what our increase is. If we feel in our hearts that we have paid a full tithe then that's it. Really tithing is between ourselves and the Lord. Of course we also believe in being honest. Not sure I would want to lie to Heavenly Father concerning this.

The Church doesn't have it laid out in black and white. Strictly 10%. It is up to us what we feel is an honest tithe.

I completely agree with that :)

[Misshalfway]

Damnation according to the Strong's Concordance is:

G2920

κρίσις

krisis

kree'-sis

(Subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension a tribunal; by implication justice (specifically divine law): - accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.

Also, from looking on the online dictionary, the definition of damnation is:

1. The act of damning or the condition of being damned.

2.

a. Condemnation to everlasting punishment; doom.

b. Everlasting punishment.

3. Failure or ruination incurred by adverse criticism.

Where did your definition of damnation come from? Just curious.

You will have to forgive me for not being familiar with Strong's Concordance. But I am familiar with the dictionary. :) So I can speak to that.

My definition comes from the LDS Bible Dictionary which is printed within each KJV of the Bible. The definition of damnation there says:

"As used in the KJV this word has a wider meaning that is at once apparent from modern usage. Damnation is the opposite of salvation, and exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges and hence be damned to that extent. (see Matt. 23:14, 33; Mark 3:29;16:16; John 5:29; Rom. 13:2; 1 Cor. 11:29; 2 Nephi 9:24; 3 Nephi 18:28-29; D&C 58:26-29)"

I guess I think of damnation as a punishment and an act of justice or righteous consequences and if one is not allowed progress or privilege for the eternities, in whatever degree, that would seem very everlasting to me.

My simple brain thinks of a regular old damn.....like the one built on the reservoir near my home. The damn is built to stop the flow of water. To contain it and limit where it can go. It seems to me that eternal damnation is a very similar spiritual limitation and very much an eternal consequence of not living up the standards God has set.

I also think of analogies like the "glass ceiling" or other barriers to moving forward in ones progress. I would think that this in and of itself, would be a significant and profound punishment or condemnation. The BD descriptions, to me, just explain what God's punishments will look like coupled with perfect justice and perfect mercy too as these conditions are assigned according to degree. Once one understands the nature of exaltation and how eternal progression is part of that state of being, it would be sad to be "doomed" to a state that couldn't progress or could only progress so far.

How does the LDS church define "giving our lives to Christ" though? It will be interesting to see how that differs from the Protestant view of it.

I am not exactly sure how to answer this question without waxing on and on. I might help me to understand how you see it and then maybe we could launch a conversation from that.

[symphonyofdissent]

In regard to questions about entering the temple, I think that its a very individualized process. I know that since I was baptized there have been times where I was not sure if I felt worthy to go to the temple even though I have my limited use recommend. I have had to pray to be able to enter with a clean mind and a pure spirit. The temple is an incredible place and we would not want to enter if we were not living up to our obligations to the lord including the law of tithing.

Curtishouse have you visited the grounds of any nearby temples? I recommend it very strongly because there is a powerful spirit there that will help you to feel that it is true.

[Dravin]

Is this talked about in the D&C, BofM, or anywhere else?

Along with the D&C section Pam mentioned there is also 3 Nephi 24 . A little context, basically after his resurrection the savior came to the Americas and taught the people living there. The Savior was telling these people that the Law of Moses was fulfilled (and teaching the his Gospel) and then takes the time to quote Malachi 3 for them. We can conclude that tithing was something still applicable post-Law of Moses as opposed to say... not eating pork.

Interesting aside: Additionally you can note that tithing was something around in the time of Abraham, it predates the Law of Moses.

[deseretgov]

Hey everybody,

I'm having a little difficulty understanding the process after our death here on earth. The way I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong in any way, is that we die and are then given the chance to hear the Gospel if we haven't already.

After that, according to our works (and I'm assuming relationship with Christ), we go to one of three Heavens, correct?

Our works determine our relationship with Christ. But All the spirits must be ressurected and then Judged, After that they go to one of three kingdoms.

Well I've heard that y'all believe that if we are good enough, we can achieve Godness and become Gods of our own planet. When exactly does that occur?

It would occur sometime after the entrance into the Celestial kingdom. Since time is meaningless there it would be safe to say it would happen after an eternity of being in the Celestial Kingdom. Of course you have to remember that we are just limited creatures even after being ressurected. We would still have to learn EVERYTHING and become PERFECT before godhood could occur.

Also I don't think godhood would be limited to one planet. Is our God the God of only one planet? Is he not also the God of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and all the other planets in the entire universe? So it's safe to say that when one attains godhood they would have their own universe, just like our Father has his own universe.

Also please could you cite your sources from the Bible, BofM, D&C, or The Pearl of Great Price. I'm just trying to get this all straight because it seems like a pretty big thing to understand correctly. :) Thanks!

Oh, sorry I'm not sure of any references. Most of the stuff concerning godhood is speculation