Of Psychology And Polygamy.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Ray : Please,

I'm sure you know our Lord authorized polygamy in the past, so would you really have a problem if He did so again?

Yes He has in the past... Do you understand why?... and No I wouldn't have a problem with it.... I am the first wife.... not the second...third, fourth.....etc.. I get to rule over the others.... one for the wash, one for the baby sitting, one for the kitchen chores and cooking, one for the window washing.... and me for the bedroom and being taken out to dinner... LOL

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Ray+Nov 1 2005, 04:26 PM-->

   

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Oct 31 2005, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 31 2005, 06:54 PM

   

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Oct 31 2005, 05:44 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-john doe@Oct 31 2005, 06:35 PM

SF writes:   

   

Thank Ray.     

   

Tell the wonderful wife Strawberry Fields says Hellloooo.     

Although I don't know you other than on this board, SF, I think I can say that at least in my eyes, from what I know of you, you are a wonderful wife, mother, and woman. If others can't see that, that is their problem.

←

Oh John Doe,

Thank you so much. It means a lot to me that you think I am wonderful.

←

Everybody enjoys appearing wonderful in the eyes of others, and women seem to be especially concerned about how they appear to others, but wonderful is a word that I use sparingly because our Lord is also called Wonderful and I don't want to detract from how wonderful I believe He is.

I do think my wife is wonderful though, and I'm sure my Lord agrees with that.

←

Ya know Ray, your opinion is about me is as important as........................................................................

Whoops, I can't think of anything else that means so little.

←

Are you persecuting me, Strawberry?

What in your mind have I done to deserve this?

←

Ray, Surely you jest...

Why do you do this? You take a swing at me and then you try come off like a wounded puppy claiming persecution from me..Can you not read your quotes from above? If you still don't get it read s l o w e r . This is all I am going to do to try to get you to understand. I am choosing to use my words sparingly here Also, to me this isn't a federal case because I am not the wonderful woman who is married to you. I only need to deal with you occasionally on a message board.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Nov 1 2005, 05:04 PM-->

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 1 2005, 04:26 PM

   

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Oct 31 2005, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 31 2005, 06:54 PM

    

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Oct 31 2005, 05:44 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-john doe@Oct 31 2005, 06:35 PM

SF writes:    

    

Thank Ray.      

    

Tell the wonderful wife Strawberry Fields says Hellloooo.      

Although I don't know you other than on this board, SF, I think I can say that at least in my eyes, from what I know of you, you are a wonderful wife, mother, and woman. If others can't see that, that is their problem.

←

Oh John Doe,

Thank you so much. It means a lot to me that you think I am wonderful.

←

Everybody enjoys appearing wonderful in the eyes of others, and women seem to be especially concerned about how they appear to others, but wonderful is a word that I use sparingly because our Lord is also called Wonderful and I don't want to detract from how wonderful I believe He is.

I do think my wife is wonderful though, and I'm sure my Lord agrees with that.

←

Ya know Ray, your opinion is about me is as important as........................................................................

Whoops, I can't think of anything else that means so little.

←

Are you persecuting me, Strawberry?

What in your mind have I done to deserve this?

←

Ray, Surely you jest...

Why do you do this? You take a swing at me and then you try come off like a wounded puppy claiming persecution from me..Can you not read your quotes from above? If you still don't get it read s l o w e r . This is all I am going to do to try to get you to understand. I am choosing to use my words sparingly here Also, to me this isn't a federal case because I am not the wonderful woman who is married to you. I only need to deal with you occasionally on a message board.

←

I took no "swing" at you, Strawberry, despite whatever idea you may have been led to believe, so perhaps you should try reading what I wrote without making assumptions. I think you greatly underestimate the sneakiness of our adversary.

And btw, I do see how you think I might have insulted you, by not saying that you are wonderful, but I explained why I hardly ever use that word and just because I didn't use the word "wonderful" to describe you, because I am very selective about using that word, I still think you're pretty okay, except for when you jump all over me for something I said without properly understanding what I meant.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Let's stop using the word "wonderful" and end all this confusion.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Ray actually means "obedient" women...as in obedient to the Lord.

If I am right, just use the word "obedient"!

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Ray+Nov 1 2005, 06:26 PM-->

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Nov 1 2005, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 1 2005, 04:26 PM

   

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Oct 31 2005, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Ray@Oct 31 2005, 06:54 PM

   

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Oct 31 2005, 05:44 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-john doe@Oct 31 2005, 06:35 PM

SF writes:   

   

Thank Ray.     

   

Tell the wonderful wife Strawberry Fields says Hellloooo.     

Although I don't know you other than on this board, SF, I think I can say that at least in my eyes, from what I know of you, you are a wonderful wife, mother, and woman. If others can't see that, that is their problem.

←

Oh John Doe,

Thank you so much. It means a lot to me that you think I am wonderful.

←

Everybody enjoys appearing wonderful in the eyes of others, and women seem to be especially concerned about how they appear to others, but wonderful is a word that I use sparingly because our Lord is also called Wonderful and I don't want to detract from how wonderful I believe He is.

I do think my wife is wonderful though, and I'm sure my Lord agrees with that.

←

Ya know Ray, your opinion is about me is as important as........................................................................

Whoops, I can't think of anything else that means so little.

←

Are you persecuting me, Strawberry?

What in your mind have I done to deserve this?

←

Ray, Surely you jest...

Why do you do this? You take a swing at me and then you try come off like a wounded puppy claiming persecution from me..Can you not read your quotes from above? If you still don't get it read s l o w e r . This is all I am going to do to try to get you to understand. I am choosing to use my words sparingly here Also, to me this isn't a federal case because I am not the wonderful woman who is married to you. I only need to deal with you occasionally on a message board.

←

I took no "swing" at you, Strawberry, despite whatever idea you may have been led to believe, so perhaps you should try reading what I wrote without making assumptions. I think you greatly underestimate the sneakiness of our adversary.

And btw, I do see how you think I might have insulted you, by not saying that you are wonderful, but I explained why I hardly ever use that word and just because I didn't use the word "wonderful" to describe you, because I am very selective about using that word, I still think you're pretty okay, except for when you jump all over me for something I said without properly understanding what I meant.

←

FYI, I am more than okay.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Nov 1 2005, 06:34 PM

Let's stop using the word "wonderful" and end all this confusion.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Ray actually means "obedient" women...as in obedient to the Lord.

If I am right, just use the word "obedient"!

←

Obedient? Then no, that would not always be me, but wonderful...that is another

story.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Could we start making an effort to shorten the amount of quotes we have to scroll through?

Just a question...

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Please@Nov 1 2005, 06:50 PM

Could we start making an effort to shorten the amount of quotes we have to scroll through?

Just a question...

←

Good Idea!

[Ray]

Originally posted by Please@Nov 1 2005, 04:24 PM

Ray : Please,

I'm sure you know our Lord authorized polygamy in the past, so would you really have a problem if He did so again?

Yes He has in the past... Do you understand why?... and No I wouldn't have a problem with it.... I am the first wife.... not the second...third, fourth.....etc.. I get to rule over the others.... one for the wash, one for the baby sitting, one for the kitchen chores and cooking, one for the window washing.... and me for the bedroom and being taken out to dinner... LOL

←

Okay. Now how about a serious attempt to try to share how you really believe you might be able to handle the idea of your husband having more than one wife.

And to offer an example about what I'm talking about, I'll share where I currently am right now at being able to try to understand it.

I now spend 8 hours a day at work and about 8 hours a day sleeping, leaving only 1/3 of my life to spend with my wife, except on weekends and holidays and other time that I take off from work. Now, in heaven, as I understand it, I won’t need to sleep and I won’t have a job to go to like I do now, which means I’ll then have about another 2/3 of my life to spend with my wife, or time which could also be distributed amongst 2 other wives while still spending the same amount of my life with the wife I have now.

And actually, I now only spend about 4-5 hours a day with my wife, except on weekends and holidays and other time I take off from work, considering the time it takes me to travel back and forth to work during the week, and if I spent only 4-5 hours a day during the week with my wife, or wives, I could have another 3 wives while still spending the same amount of time with my wife that I spend with her now.

Or in other words, I can see how I could have time to spend with several wives while spending the same amount of time with all of them that I spend with my wife now, and since my wife has adjusted to the fact that I have to go to work and sleep, I don’t see why she couldn’t adjust to the idea that I have other work to do, and other things to do besides sleeping, without putting a dent in the amount of time I would be able to spend with her.

And btw, I do dearly love my wife, and I enjoy spending time with her more than with anyone else, so I’m only talking about logistics here, or about how I could see myself being able to spend time with other wives while still maintaining the relationship I currently have with my wife now.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Nov 1 2005, 05:34 PM

Let's stop using the word "wonderful" and end all this confusion.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Ray actually means "obedient" women...as in obedient to the Lord.

If I am right, just use the word "obedient"!

←

Heh, there's a lot more to it than that.

To me, a wonderful woman is more than a robot, which is all it would take to be obedient.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Ray : Okay. Now how about a serious attempt to try to share how you really believe you might be able to handle the idea of your husband having more than one wife.

Okay... spiritually the whole give and give again commandments are designed to bring our 'natures' closer to that of God. Quality rather than quantity... when quality is the objective. And pure love of Christ rather than just passionate love for self-fulfilment relationship wise..

Polygamy if practiced as an unselfish submission to Christ... being blessed and increased and enlarged in our souls through this act... being enabled through HIS love and strength... polygamy could be a greater experience than monogamy...

BUT... I see very few men and women who are that submissive to God....

What I see is people 'telling' what they will or won't do... and why...

They are no where near the place that God wants them... (me included in a lot of times)

IOW I would be more than willing to practice polygamy if given a man who was Christ-like and Christ-centered...

He would be so filled with the pure love of Christ... I would be better loved than I have ever been....

with a guy who is all mine... a great guy.... but still just a man who hasn't really found that kind of commitment....

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Ray+Nov 1 2005, 05:57 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Taoist_Saint@Nov 1 2005, 05:34 PM

Let's stop using the word "wonderful" and end all this confusion.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Ray actually means "obedient" women...as in obedient to the Lord.

If I am right, just use the word "obedient"!

←

Heh, there's a lot more to it than that.

To me, a wonderful woman is more than a robot, which is all it would take to be obedient.

←

I am not saying that WONDERFUL = OBEDIENT.

I am saying that it might be a good idea to STOP saying that a WONDERFUL woman would approve of polygamy...and START saying that an OBEDIENT woman would approve of polygamy.

That way, the women here that disagree with polygamy can still be considered wonderful people, while being disobedient to God.

And I think you know that being obedient does not mean a person is a "robot". You spend most of your time here demonstrating your obedience to your god, do you not?

So why not change our terminology a bit, and put the conflict behind us?

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint+Nov 1 2005, 07:36 PM-->

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 1 2005, 05:57 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Taoist_Saint@Nov 1 2005, 05:34 PM

Let's stop using the word "wonderful" and end all this confusion.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Ray actually means "obedient" women...as in obedient to the Lord.

If I am right, just use the word "obedient"!

←

Heh, there's a lot more to it than that.

To me, a wonderful woman is more than a robot, which is all it would take to be obedient.

←

I am not saying that WONDERFUL = OBEDIENT.

I am saying that it might be a good idea to STOP saying that a WONDERFUL woman would approve of polygamy...and START saying that an OBEDIENT woman would approve of polygamy.

That way, the women here that disagree with polygamy can still be considered wonderful people, while being disobedient to God.

And I think you know that being obedient does not mean a person is a "robot". You spend most of your time here demonstrating your obedience to your god, do you not?

So why not change our terminology a bit, and put the conflict behind us?

←

VERY GOOD POST TS!!!

btw, it's so good to see you again.

[Fiannan]

When looking up Luther's condemnation of birth control I found this comment on polygamy:

"I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. "

Martin Luther

Interesting.

[dizzysmiles]

interesting,. but in this day and age we know God took it off the earth. So until we die or further notice it is wrong to marry more than one so if i catch any of you doing that shame onyou jk

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Fiannan@Nov 2 2005, 09:29 AM

When looking up Luther's condemnation of birth control I found this comment on polygamy:

"I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. "

                                                    Martin Luther

Interesting.

←

Are you looking for some justification to have more than one wife?

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Ray+Nov 1 2005, 05:55 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Nov 1 2005, 04:24 PM

Ray : Please,

I'm sure you know our Lord authorized polygamy in the past, so would you really have a problem if He did so again?

Yes He has in the past... Do you understand why?... and No I wouldn't have a problem with it.... I am the first wife.... not the second...third, fourth.....etc.. I get to rule over the others.... one for the wash, one for the baby sitting, one for the kitchen chores and cooking, one for the window washing.... and me for the bedroom and being taken out to dinner... LOL

←

Okay. Now how about a serious attempt to try to share how you really believe you might be able to handle the idea of your husband having more than one wife.

And to offer an example about what I'm talking about, I'll share where I currently am right now at being able to try to understand it.

I now spend 8 hours a day at work and about 8 hours a day sleeping, leaving only 1/3 of my life to spend with my wife, except on weekends and holidays and other time that I take off from work. Now, in heaven, as I understand it, I won’t need to sleep and I won’t have a job to go to like I do now, which means I’ll then have about another 2/3 of my life to spend with my wife, or time which could also be distributed amongst 2 other wives while still spending the same amount of my life with the wife I have now.

And actually, I now only spend about 4-5 hours a day with my wife, except on weekends and holidays and other time I take off from work, considering the time it takes me to travel back and forth to work during the week, and if I spent only 4-5 hours a day during the week with my wife, or wives, I could have another 3 wives while still spending the same amount of time with my wife that I spend with her now.

Or in other words, I can see how I could have time to spend with several wives while spending the same amount of time with all of them that I spend with my wife now, and since my wife has adjusted to the fact that I have to go to work and sleep, I don’t see why she couldn’t adjust to the idea that I have other work to do, and other things to do besides sleeping, without putting a dent in the amount of time I would be able to spend with her.

And btw, I do dearly love my wife, and I enjoy spending time with her more than with anyone else, so I’m only talking about logistics here, or about how I could see myself being able to spend time with other wives while still maintaining the relationship I currently have with my wife now.

←

BIZ: In eternity, there wuld be no such concept as "time". If you live FOREVER, you will have infinite amounts of "time" to do anything you wanted to. ETERNITY can't be divided up into incremental units of "time". You can't divide forever into 3rds.

[Ray]

I believe eternity can be described as time that keeps on ticking, without ever ending, as well as never having a beginning.

Or in other words, time is a fraction of eternity, and the remainder of eternity can be divided into segments, just as there were creative periods when creating this Earth.

Or in other words, everything in eternity doesn't happen all at once.

Or in other words, the time it takes to do one thing is separate from the time it takes to do other things.

Or in other words, time is relative, and relative to eternity, time will never end.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Please@Nov 1 2005, 07:09 PM

Ray : Okay. Now how about a serious attempt to try to share how you really believe you might be able to handle the idea of your husband having more than one wife.

Okay... spiritually the whole give and give again commandments are designed to bring our 'natures' closer to that of God. Quality rather than quantity... when quality is the objective. And pure love of Christ rather than just passionate love for self-fulfilment relationship wise..

Polygamy if practiced as an unselfish submission to Christ... being blessed and increased and enlarged in our souls through this act... being enabled through HIS love and strength... polygamy could be a greater experience than monogamy...

BUT... I see very few men and women who are that submissive to God....

What I see is people 'telling' what they will or won't do... and why...

They are no where near the place that God wants them... (me included in a lot of times)

IOW I would be more than willing to practice polygamy if given a man who was Christ-like and Christ-centered...

He would be so filled with the pure love of Christ... I would be better loved than I have ever been....

with a guy who is all mine... a great guy.... but still just a man who hasn't really found that kind of commitment....

←

RAY YOU ASKED FOR THIS....

[Ray]

Yes, I did.

Are you asking me to respond to your comments?

I will do that.

First, I believe the idea of being “Christ-like” and living a “Christ-centered” life can best be described, to a man, as being like our Lord Jesus Christ and living our life as He lives His life.

Next, I am happy to see that you can see positive possibilities in being married to a man who has other wives, as long as your husband is like our Lord and lives his life as our Lord lives His life.

And finally, I am trying to be like our Lord and live my life as He lives His life.

And you know what else? I believe there is nothing else like love and encouragement from a wonderful woman to help bring out the best in a man.

And btw, I will now define "wonderful" as someone who can give love and encouragement to help someone else be their best, while they themselves are a perfect example. Not necessarily without flaw, but someone who tries to be the best they can be while still giving their love and encouragement to others.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

A thank you would have done nicely... LOL but I do agree with the rest of what you wrote.

[Ray]

A "thank you" for my request for more information, or a "thank you" for saying something I can appreciate?

Heh, no matter. I thank you for both. :)

[Guest Member_Deleted]

[Fiannan]

When I quoted Reformation leader Martin Luther on polygamy:

I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture.

Strawberry Fields responded:

Are you looking for some justification to have more than one wife?

Strawberry Fields, et al, when I joined the Church I knew there had been polygamy in the past. But like many people I believed (quite wrongly) that polygamy was contrary to the scriptures but for some reason God mandated it -- just as He tested Abraham with commanding him to sacrifice Isaac. So like many uninformed (historically/scripturally) I let polygamy lie in my "state of denial" -- or at best I could use another classic defense mechanism (rationalization).

One day I cracked open a book with talks given on polygamy. I cannot remember if it was one of the Pratts, or Brigham Young but in the talk he said the scriiptures contained no condemnation of polygamy -- just like what Martin Luther (the founder of Protestantism) siad in the quote I used in this thread. I decided to investigate and found that polygamy is not condemned.

In an ironic sense, the only church that could actually forbid you to have more than one wife is the LDS Church as prophets have revealed that this is not the time for it. In Ethiopia and Turkey there are Christians who practice polygamy -- not because of the influence of Islamic cultures but because of different Christian origins.

I am not looking for any justification to practice polygamy as I would not want to lose my membership as LDS. However, if I were not LDS the only thing that might stand in my way would be the preferences of my wife and myself.

When LDS people at least acknowledge that the period that was polygamist was not some sort of strange or deviant thing in which we need to make apologies for then I think the testimonies we can share with others will be stronger and more sincere.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Fiannan : When LDS people at least acknowledge that the period that was polygamist was not some sort of strange or deviant thing in which we need to make apologies for then I think the testimonies we can share with others will be stronger and more sincere.

A true LDS will not feel that it was deviant thing which needs to be apolgized for. Only the anti's think that...