Authority

[Outshined]

This is rather amusing really. A person who says upfront that they do not believe in the teachings of the LDS Church, but is bothered by his mistaken idea that we might not consider him saved or even a Christian.

Roman, do you believe (and does your church teach) that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are Christians and that we are saved? As you said, a simple yes or no will do.

[roman]

Originally posted by Outshined@Nov 27 2005, 02:12 PM

This is rather amusing really. A person who says upfront that they do not believe in the teachings of the LDS Church, but is bothered by his mistaken idea that we might not consider him saved or even a Christian.

Roman, do you believe (and does your church teach) that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are Christians and that we are saved? As you said, a simple yes or no will do.

←

Well first of all I'm not "bothered" by what you may or may not believe---I do know that not all lds believe and follow to a 'T' the lds church doctrine as you would have us believe.

Second; nice attempt to side step my issues I brought up. Will you now answer my scenario---God gives me his best in this life--I reject the lds church and its doctrine-----you believe he will with hold his best from me in eternity and not allow me into the highest heaven---according to church doctrine-----why are you passing your lds god off as a respecter of persons,

Now I can answer your question---that you know the answer to all to well. No my fellowship rejects. you as christians and are not saved as you follow a different jesus a different gospel. i mean its like this ---look at all of the extra requirements snow listed to get Gods best in eternity. non of that is Biblical--its all man made religion. Jesus said that I can have eternal life--NOW---which you don't believe. That I can have Gods justification---NOW by faith and enter Heaven when I die to spend eternity together with the Father---which you don't believe I can.

Now please don't take this thread down another trail---look at my scenario and answer why I can have what i listed and still not make your heaven?

[Outshined]

Originally posted by roman@Nov 27 2005, 02:45 PM

Now I can answer your question---that you know the answer to all to well. No my fellowship rejects.   you as christians and are not saved as you follow a different jesus a different gospel.

←

This illustrates why your tantrum over your misunderstanding of LDS theology is so silly and hypocritical.

You admit that you and your church do not believe that Latter-day Saints are Christian or saved, but whine when you think we don't accept you as such. That's why I can not take you or your misinformed arguments seriously, nor will I go to any length to satisfy your attempts to justify your prejudice and ignorance.

Such hypocrisy as you've shown here is frankly disgusting.

[roman]

Originally posted by Outshined+Nov 27 2005, 02:59 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-roman@Nov 27 2005, 02:45 PM

Now I can answer your question---that you know the answer to all to well. No my fellowship rejects.   you as christians and are not saved as you follow a different jesus a different gospel. i mean its like this ---look at all of the extra requirements snow listed to get Gods best in eternity. non of that is Biblical--its all man made religion. Jesus said that I can have eternal life--NOW---which you don't believe. That I can have Gods justification---NOW by faith and enter Heaven when I die to spend eternity together with the Father---which you don't believe I can.

←

This illustrates why your tantrum over your misunderstanding of LDS theology is so silly and hypocritical.

You admit that you and your church do not believe that Latter-day Saints are Christian or saved, but whine when you think we don't accept you as such. That's why I can not take you or your misinformed arguments seriously, nor will I go to any length to satisfy your attempts to justify your prejudice and ignorance.

Such hypocrisy as you've shown here is frankly disgusting.

←

Interesting way you show you have no answers to my inquriries

You use so really interesting words---tantrum----silly---and the big one

hypercritical--to bad they don't apply. You know I need to remind you that this is JUST a message board. That is all it is--no more no less. If you think that a few post from someone who I don't know and won't answer questions and refuses to act accordingly affect me ----you are the one who-----well its been good. If you can't intelligently express yourself and your beliefs---then why are you here?

in all of this Just remember this---i have what you don't---but you can have it-----------assurance-----and the wonderful gift of knowing that i have eternal life----NOW

[Outshined]

No, what's interesting is someone who willingly misunderstands another faith, but complains about that misunderstanding even after he is proven to be wrong.

I'm here because I am LDS, and it is an LDS board. I express myself much more intelligently than you do, by the way, if you hadn't noticed. You consistently mischaracterize the beliefs of others, whether through ignorance or duplicity (I believe the latter) which is wrong, regardless of what assurance you think you have. To paraphrase your question, if you can't intelligently express yourself and the LDS beliefs you oppose, why are you here? I was Baptist for over thirty years, and even attended a seminary to become a minister; I know all I need to be convinced of the truth of the LDS Church.

And every one of those words; tantrum, silly, and especially hypocritical apply perfectly here, whether you want to face it or not. It is unbelieveably hypocritical to complain (incorrectly) that someone does not consider you to be saved or Christian when you actually believe that of them. And yes, I have a very good idea why you are here as well; it has little to do with any "Christianity".

Disgusting? Yes.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by roman@Nov 27 2005, 03:09 PM

Interesting way you show you have no answers to my inquriries (sic)

←

Nice try, but you know better. Your "inquriries" have taken second place to your admission that you don't consider Latter-day Saints Christian ( as if you get to say), but want ever so badly for us to see you that way(lucky you; we always did).

[Snow]

Originally posted by roman@Nov 27 2005, 12:45 PM

Now I can answer your question---that you know the answer to all to well. No my fellowship rejects.  you as christians and are not saved as you follow a different jesus a different gospel.

This is the perfect example of the hipocracy and lunacy of the evangelica anti-mormon reasoning. It goes like this:

Mormon: What do I have to do to be saved?

Critic: Accept Christ as your Savior and repent?

Mormon: Good, I do that. Am I saved?

Critic: Yes, unless you are Mormon.

Mormon: Huh?

Critic: Salvation is by faith/grace only, but if you are Mormon, then an additional requirement is that you stop being Mormon and also believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

Mormon: Okay - I believe everything in the Bible especially all the parts about Christ. Am I saved?

Critic: Yes - I mean no, because you also have to accept the creeds and councils of the 4th and 5th century.

Mormon: Can’t I just believe the Bible and forget about believing other stuff that came hundreds of years later

.

Critic: Yes - I mean no. The creeds just repeat what’s in the Bible so you have to believe them to.

Mormon: Like I said, I accept everything in the Bible.

Critic: And like I said, accepting Christ and believing the Bible is not good enough.

Mormon: I thought you said that salvation was by faith/grace alone.

Critic: I lied.

Mormon: Yeah - we noticed.

[roman]

Usual typical answer from someone who cannot defend their postion and when challenged on their doctrines----you have no valid answers you attack me----------------let it go---let it all go.

besides you knew from the get go how I felt about you and the lds church but you played the game for weeks. Only when your doctrine would show the sillyness of yourt position you begin to wine and attack---let it go

I'm glad that you can defend your country---but you cannot defend your faith nor your positions no the quotes I gave----in there context---which you could NEVER disprove ---interesting----let it go we are at the end---neither one of us will accept much of what each other says now---Its been good outshine. I respect you for your service to this country----

[Snow]

Originally posted by roman@Nov 27 2005, 12:45 PM

look at all of the extra requirements snow listed to get Gods best in eternity. non of that is Biblical--its all man made religion.

←

Let's look back at that list just exactly what the Roman one thinks is non-bibliccal:

Love and worship God.

Love our neighbor.

Repent of our wrongdoings.

Live the law of chastity.

Pay honest tithes and offerings.

Be honest in our dealings with others and with the Lord.

Speak the truth always.

Keep the Sabbath day holy.

Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.

Have family and individual prayers every day.

Honor our parents.

Teach the gospel to others by word and example.

Study the scriptures.

Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

Roman must be using one of those new revised Bibles. Heaven forbid you should actually obey God - I mean really.

[roman]

snow;

You really ought to change the bait you use----in fact if you look real close your fishing with nothing on your hook.

You need to get a grip. I mean look at your last 2 post. you have fallen to the point of making stuff up--twisting things----making it look like I say stuff I don't--------You are not at all what you want others to think you are. Your just a bully pushing everything and everybody around. You don't get along with anybody on this board, you argue over almost every little thing. Your not the great guru of lds doctrine that you want us to believe--if you were you could do a better job of presenting your case before going to the depths of name-calling--lying and avoiding the topic at hand.

Your not the great spokes person for all of the lds church---who told you, you were?

you refuse to believe some lds don't always hold the party line and the party line for you is what ever you say it is.

I may not always present my ideas and thought in a precise manner, but that doesn't take away from the fact that you are just wrong on swoooooo much.

I feel sorry for you--you struggle to be something your not . Your need to always feel right--to have the last word ---and to claim victory from almost the start of a topic---to do your victory dance when all you have done is avoid truth.

I posted 4 quotes which of the substance --you never engaged---you made side issue after side issue. The one I like was about me having the books i got them from----you were making it look like you were looking in the same books to counter my claims---when the reason you couldn't fully engage the topic was----you never had to books yourself to do it---so you were lost on an honest response---so the result was---well you were you. you get to the point that if I said that the sun rises in the east---you would have an argument against it---truth means nothing to you--exalting yourself is what your about

Try humbling yourself----you may actually get to the place you think you already are.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by roman@Nov 27 2005, 05:06 PM

Only when your doctrine would show the sillyness of yourt position you begin to wine and attack---let it go

←

See that's the problem. It's not the Church doctrines, it's your incorrect interpretation and mischaracterization of them. In fact, you've outright misstated them on more than one occasion, such as saying LDS doctrine says you aren't Christian, which is patently false. That's what's really silly; making up LDS beliefs to fit your misconceptions.

Someone mentioned persecution against the early members, and you went on this "Mormons don't consider me saved or a Christian" tangent to show the supposed intolerance and prejudice of these rhetorical Church members (and eventually the whole Church as you tried to rewrite our doctrines).

The irony is that you then showed that you and your own church embrace the very intolerance and prejudice you tried to paint on us. And we both know that whole ridiculous "another Jesus" nonsense is just something people use to make themselves feel better about embracing that prejudice and intolerance.

Honestly, you need to learn about the doctrines of the LDS Church if you're going to try and proclaim it "false". Either that or just stop misrepresenting those doctrines.

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons

http://www.lds.org

[Outshined]

Originally posted by roman@Nov 28 2005, 04:34 AM

Try humbling yourself----you may actually get to the place you think you already are.

←

Practice what you preach.

And here is another article on the subject of salvation.

Does Mormonism really teach that there is no salvation outside the LDS Church?

This question takes many forms. Sometimes the individual will ask, "Do I have to be a Mormon to go to heaven?" One person asked Joseph Smith, "Will everyone be damned but Mormons?" His answer was direct: "Yes, and a great portion of them unless they repent, and work righteousness" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119). As can be seen from his answer, not all Latter-day Saints are going to be saved—only those who comply with the teachings of the Savior.

Mormonism has long recognized that there is truth to be found in other religions. Joseph Smith declared:

Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, etc., any truth? Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 316).

When Latter-day Saints speak of the "Church" being the only true Church, they mean that it is the only religious organization today which is authorized by God to administer the ordinances he deems necessary for salvation. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is synonymous with "Christ's church," hence the declaration that if one is not a member of Christ's church, there is no salvation.

Even the most militant anti-Mormon Christian agrees that there is no salvation outside of Christ. Since Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it that it should be holy and without blemish (Eph. 5:25- 27), the real question is not just where salvation is found, but which is the Church the Savior established and died for?

The point critics seem to be making is, "Wouldn't it be unjust of God to save only those belonging to this small, unpopular church?" But while we declare that salvation is a narrow path, the scope of this work is broad, encompassing all who will ever live on earth. An official statement from the First Presidency regarding the salvation of those who did not belong to Christ's Church, reads in part:

We also declare that the Gospel of Jesus Christ in our day, provides the only way to a mortal life of happiness and a fullness of joy forever. For those who have not received the gospel, the opportunity will come to them in the life hereafter if not in this life (Ensign, Jan. 1988, p. 48).

It may be that there are members of our Church that give the impression they are members of an exclusive religious society. This is not representative of the official position of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We soberly testify that the church Jesus established in the meridian of time fell away, and that he has re-established it in preparation for his Second Coming. He commands all mankind to believe in him and extends membership in his earthly kingdom to all people willing to take upon themselves his name and be baptized by those who have authority from him. No one will be denied the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ and receive his ordinances through those he has authorized. We invite all to partake of the blessings of salvation and become members of God's earthly kingdom.

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/contents.htm

[Outshined]

Originally posted by Snow+Nov 27 2005, 04:59 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-roman@Nov 27 2005, 12:45 PM

Now I can answer your question---that you know the answer to all to well. No my fellowship rejects.   you as christians and are not saved as you follow a different jesus a different gospel.

This is the perfect example of the hipocracy and lunacy of the evangelica anti-mormon reasoning. It goes like this:

Mormon: What do I have to do to be saved?

Critic: Accept Christ as your Savior and repent?

Mormon: Good, I do that. Am I saved?

Critic: Yes, unless you are Mormon.

Mormon: Huh?

Critic: Salvation is by faith/grace only, but if you are Mormon, then an additional requirement is that you stop being Mormon and also believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

Mormon: Okay - I believe everything in the Bible especially all the parts about Christ. Am I saved?

Critic: Yes - I mean no, because you also have to accept the creeds and councils of the 4th and 5th century.

Mormon: Can’t I just believe the Bible and forget about believing other stuff that came hundreds of years later

.

Critic: Yes - I mean no. The creeds just repeat what’s in the Bible so you have to believe them to.

Mormon: Like I said, I accept everything in the Bible.

Critic: And like I said, accepting Christ and believing the Bible is not good enough.

Mormon: I thought you said that salvation was by faith/grace alone.

Critic: I lied.

Mormon: Yeah - we noticed.

←

[Snow]

Originally posted by roman@Nov 28 2005, 02:34 AM

snow;

You need to get a grip. I mean look at your last 2 post. you have fallen to the point of making stuff up--twisting things----making it look like I say stuff I don't-------

←

Well let's see if that is true. This is what you said:

"look at all of the extra requirements snow listed to get Gods best in eternity. non of that is Biblical--its all man made religion."

Okay - that's a direct quote. That is exactly what you said. I didn't change a word of it. And this is what you are referring to:

Love and worship God.

Love our neighbor.

Repent of our wrongdoings.

Live the law of chastity.

Pay honest tithes and offerings.

Be honest in our dealings with others and with the Lord.

Speak the truth always.

Keep the Sabbath day holy.

Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.

Have family and individual prayers every day.

Honor our parents.

Teach the gospel to others by word and example.

Study the scriptures.

Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

For you to now claim that I made up stuff you did not say is simply false and dishonest

Roman - you get "engaged" on everything you say. You just don't like it because when it comes to religion, you are almost always wrong. We call you on it and then you claim that we don't answer you.

[Laureltree]

Originally posted by Jason+Nov 10 2005, 05:01 PM-->

Originally posted by Maureen@Nov 10 2005, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Please@Nov 10 2005, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Maureen@Nov 10 2005, 01:38 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Nov 10 2005, 11:35 AM

From reviews done by others... and from where it is found. If it is found on an anit- site... then you know... don't you?

If you did like I did and just clicked on the link that Jason provided you would have seen it is amazon.com (sells books on-line) and the title of the book. If you go further, you could read a review. So now my question to you Please is, do you really consider amazon.com an anti mormon site and the one and only review of this book is also giving you the impression that the book is anti-mormon? If so, please explain.

If it is being recommended by someone who has left the church... that would be another clue... wouldn't it?

Not at all. If Jason recommended the Harry Potter series as great reading would you also say that those books are also anti-mormon?

M.

That is a whole other thing...

What is a whole other thing?

M.

←

I believe both Please and Dizzy would say: "It it's not from Deseret Book, it's not true!"

And I think it's obvious that Dizzy never bothered to check the link.

←

I think peace would say if its not from distrubution.....