roman

You know in a offbeat twisted, but good kinda way I have a great deal of fun exchanging things with you. Your the most challenging poster I have ever run into. You have taught me alot on how to play this game. Now are you free for spelling lessons? :)

Well how very nice of you to notice. Thank youI see your still after the messenger and not able to engauge the message. Most people would grow out of that school yard playground mentallity--put down their lollipop and pick up a book and learn something. Hows thatt for a comeback--still love ya man:lol:

Praise the LORD I certainly hope you have!

Oh Please talk about a load of %^*&^*&^($ As usual and typical of lds on the internet. Travaller adds absolutly nothing but personal insults. __YES by their friut you shall know them. And you guy wonder why things digressas they do on thread

Like I said we all need to stop the insults------are you the forum police? Nice try and putting words in my mouth to try and discredit me. This is all typical lds internet behavior----------when you can't prove a point or back it up logically---start the insults and pull a diversion You say you won't prove your point---so Iam moving on. What would be the use to stay?

Since the Bible is absolutly silent on The Father having a body of flesh and bone, your asking me to prove a negative-----which you know is impossible. and since you won't it shows your lack of understanding in the whole matter

Oh please you don't know me so stop with your unfounded claims of what I know or don't. As to your use of the word MY in everything-it shows your lack of--------------------------- Now add to the discussion or bow out and we can all stop with the intellectual insults-including me

I know that you said that the Father has a body. Its my contention that he does not . Since I have not even given a verse of scripture to support my postion yet, your very premature in saying that I am misinterperting ONE Bible verse. Okay, please show from the Bible that the Father has a body of flesh and bone and while your at it, that he once was a man. Now to help you we are talking about the Father

This makes absolutly no sence at all. God the Father as I said is spirit. You say he has a spirit-big bib big difference. One That I am suprised you didn't know

And this my friend is pure lds opinion-not based in any evidence nor historical nor Biblical assertion at all

I pretty much agree with what you have to say-----------BUT Jesus said that God was Sprit[refering to the Father], But JS says that he was once a man who became God and that he has a body of flesh and bone. That my friend is a great big contradiction between what Jesus says and what JS says about the Father Thats one of them holes I was talking about.

Thats the answer you came up with, but millions upon millions have rejected it. For to many of us there are just to many holes in JS account for it to be believable. And yes you are the ones saying so [iMHO] God never contradicks himself and thats what you must believe to believe as you do--------ofcourse IMHO

Oh I understand what she was asking and you all have provided excellant answers from the lds point of view. All I was saying is that the majority of Christians believe outherwise and it may be a good idea to get another perspective as to why the lds view is rejected. And BTW , no she won't have to ask 99% of the Christian world to get the right answer:). Does it take 99% of the lds church to wiegh in on a matter. No I don't think so. I think you would agree thoughto something, its best to gather as much info as one can. If your so sure that your right, what can it hurt for catholicgirl or anyone for that matter to get an opposing view^_^

Catholicgirl. Please remember that what your asking here and getting here is a thought and believe, only used by thelds church. No one else subsribes to the belief of the total apostacy that the lds church puts forth. Nor does anyone belief in the thought that the keys were taken away by God -------except the lds chruch. A question you may also ask is way is that? Why does 99% of the Christian world reject this mormon teaching?

Thanks PC for your answers. I think we are pretty much on the same page. My point was that #1&4 were not reasons for immediate credential removal--------if you worked with your sectional and district officials.Thanks again-----Merry Christmas

I double-checked the bylaws. There is a section called "ministerial credentials." It says says the only exception to the no divorce and remarriage is if the divorce occured prior to conversion. And, you are right, this exception is a softening of the former stance, where no exception was allowed. BTW, THIS PROHIBITION IS ONLY FOR CLERGY. MEMBERS ARE ALLOWED TO DIVORCE AND REMARRY ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. I do not have the bylaw for officiating marriage. However, when I last researched it, I found that I could officiate the wedding of two believers or of two nonbelievers, but not when one of the party is a Christian and the other is not. I know we are taking only about clergy, but for the sake of discusion I know a man who was a district official in Colo. His wife left him and divorsed him. 3 years later he remarried applied for reinstament and was granted his credentials back. But these are special and not ordinary run of the mill AOG ways. He had to go thru quite alot with the district I asked a pastor who is a sectional presberter. That an AOG minister could marry a believer to a non believer, under certain special circumstances put that minister would have to get permission from the district office, before preforming the ceramony. So things may be a bit different here in Dallas

I beg to differ on #1&4. While they are greatly discouraged, they are not an automatic reason to revoke your credentials. But are revieable on a case by case study. In the AOG, ministers who have been divorced, regardless of reason (i.e. the other person could be 'at fault') are not allowed to be remarried and retain their credentials. Likewise, we are not to knowingly officiate a wedding between a believer and an unbeliever. You might know of exceptions to these rules, but these are rules in my fellowship. I know of one case where a minister never consumated his marriage. His new wife had not disclosed serious childhood traumas. It took him three years for the church to recognize the annulment, and grant him permission to remarry. Hey PC thanks for the reply. I have been AOG since 1992 and it may be just a little different here in the Big D. Each case is judged on its own merits. Would you mind getting your Constitution and Bylaws out and giving me a reference . I realize that By-laws may differ. I site Article VIII section 1 on Christian marriage, with a follow-up on Article IX section 5 for marriage and divorce. I would be interested in your take, as My District here has moved away from the hard line and I believe that the General Council has too

I beg to differ on #1&4. While they are greatly discouraged, they are not an automatic reason to revoke your credentials. But are revieable on a case by case study.

I take no offence from anyone about my comment. I just wanted to throw out the fact that many people feel that way towards JS---and your right, all that I know that feel that way are nonlds

Then of course there are plenty of people who don't believe that the word martyrdom applies to JS, but that II Peter 2:1 should and probably does.

People can and some people do... but it represents THEIR opinion, not the official Church position. roman say So your saying if I list, say the churchs doctrine of baptism for the dead or the doctrine of the atonement that even though its offical church doctrine and found in the standard works---------------its just an opinion and not officail? sorry still working on the quote thing---my computer genusis son says its my pc

from snowYes - they can but our Church does not. In my opinion, if you want to best understand our doctrine, read Jesus the Christ and The Articles of Faith by Talmage. Roman, for quoting... put the word quote in brackets [] to start the quote and finish the quote by puting /quote in brackets. If you use the quote button, it happens automatically. roman says Thanks for the posting lesson snow, but for some reasons sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think its my PC acting out. Aand for some reason it didn't work this time-I did it excatly like you said And my point is this -------just because the church doesn't list official doctrine doesn not mean that a person can't list it. The lds church does have official standing on most Christian ideas--practices--etc. That is what makes it LDS and say not catholic or Methodist

I agree. I believe, and this is my opinion, that what makes us eligible for these gifts is true repentance. I also believe that the only way to get closer, to have that intimate, close relationship, and someday actually see him face to face, is to truly repent. Sure, obedience is essential, but when Christ appears to his brethren/children, his first command (more often than not) is that they repent. (ya can't be obedient unless you start looking inward, stop blaming others and repent) Someone once told me that true repentance is always coupled with revelation. There is always a cleansing, The dark in us is literally replaced with light, and something is taught from on high, or we have more ability to understand truth. At first, being stubborn, I resisted, but i am beginning to understand what this person meant. I assert that it is impossible to manifest gifts of the spirit unless we are on the road to true and complete conversion. Perhaps one who exhibits "false gifts" has not paid the price above. excellant post