roman

Spiritual gifts are defined in 1st Corinthians 12:4-11 and are only available after a person repents, gives their life to Jesus and recieve the Spirit of God. which can not be the gifts you are talking about. So what gifts are to talking about?

Very good question. now for the EV angle. When you summitt your life to Christ the Spirit of God comes to live in you as you are now temple of the Holy Spirit----------all you are as such have the capablity to manifest all of the gifts. What they have in common is that they are born again and willing to be used by the Spirit of God Yes satan can produce counterfeits. Sometimes it can be diffacult to determine which it is coming from. But if from God it will be edifing--producing fruit and things of that nature

Me Bush Naming someone is not proof----------------------I want evidence presented with logic. Lay it out with quotes-figures--against what you know the truth to be.--------on a much better way that in the OP-because that just boils down to opinion Now if your just opinionated on the subject just say so and I would have no trouble with it at all------------------------- Logic? Quotes and figures? For what? I answered your question perfectly. If you didn't get the subtle satire implied in the word "Bush," then I'm sorry my attempt at humor was ineffective. As far as coming up with logic, quotes and figures, that's impossible as you haven't asked a real question. Elphaba Well I'm not going to get in a big debate over this with you. You already have your mind made up and thats fine. But you really ought to wait and see what traspires before you set your mind in concrete. You can not answer my question--and thats fine too. Good intelligent minds can differ on this subject------------but people searching for truth and answers shift thru the evidence BEFORE coming to a conclusion. Oonly blind limited people do otherwise. Now I didn't call you blind or limited----or even imply anything of that nature. . I really don't care what you think of the whole idea being put forth here------------but when asked to elaborate. You should be able too-----------and you can't

Me Bush Naming someone is not proof----------------------I want evidence presented with logic. Lay it out with quotes-figures--against what you know the truth to be.--------on a much better way that in the OP-because that just boils down to opinion Now if your just opinionated on the subject just say so and I would have no trouble with it at all-------------------------

There is NO such thing as "A Patraeus Report". Sure he will address congress and answer their questions, But by law the report is written by Pres. Bush

Ah man you left me out What will I ever do In all seriousnesss-------Good move my man-snow Well yes - but you are 49 to 50% to blame for our disagreements - besides which, some time away from each other seems to have made us get along bettter... Regards Nice to see that you might just take 51% or the most of the blame for our flame wars of the past In all honesty, I still visit here alot, but don't post much. If I have learned anything its --I'm trying to get better. AS you know i used to just post to start something. I now have almost --90% overcome that. I am trying to be more fruitfull ---------maybe it will catch on

Ah man you left me out What will I ever do In all seriousnesss-------Good move my man-snow

God is the ultimate judge in these matter. If a person in the moment of weekness, takes their life. God will judge and in some cases-not hold it against the indavidual. On the other hand if God does send relief or a way of exacpe and the person continually ignores it------well then that MAY be another story

Of course the Bible is silent to you. You have to take your hands off of your ears before you can hear anything. Not taking bait besides I know you said you were taking your doughnuts and leaving

Actually, that wasn't your point. You didn't assert that there was not a clear (or explicit) reference in the bible. You asserted that the bible was silent, ergo zero statement, clear or otherwise. Either way, you are mistaken. The bible makes very clear statements. 1 Cor 15:29 is clear and explicit. There is no inference or suggestion. Likewise many scriptures refer to a pre-existence, explicitly, for example: John 17:4, 5 or Job 38:4, 7. roman says; I don't really have time to get into all of this but your scripture references are lacking to say the least------to make a clear case for the Bible being clear on a subject One scripture in all of scripture as in 1 Cor 15:29 doesn not make a case for a clear teaching on baptism for the dead Just as john 17:4-5 deals with Jesus which is a given he has always been-as compared to man And your just misapplying the verses in Job. its my take that sence your misapplying scripture to make your point---you have not remotly convinced me or anyone else that the Bible is clear on these teaching. Only from your misapplication of scripture can you make the statment that seems to disqualify my take on things that the Bible is silent on the matters. I stand by that the Bible is silent--------you on the other hand must misapply scripture to make your point. In the end-how can only ONE verse make a teaching clear-as in baptism for the dead

What prompted me to even enter this thread was to play alittle on the words of snow[in a good natured way] on his claim of the Bible speaking CLEARLY on a subject Of which the verse in Jerimiah does NOT speak clearly on preexsistence. Listen another way to look at this is becauseGod is all knowing and knows the end fron the beginning simply means that even before God formed Adam he knew ----in his forknowledge who he would form. That verse in no way limits its interpertation[or even remotly leans that way] to preexsistence

ATTENTION ATTENTION THREAD INTERUPTION--------------------WARNING WARNING WARNING snow, I would be very carful about using the statement that the Bible doesn't speak clearly about a subject. As the Bible is silent on pre-exsistnce,etenal progression and baptism for the dead----just to name a few of lds beliefs without a Bible based foundation. now back to the tread------and yes I'm having a slow day Actually the Bible does speak to those three that you mention. In Jeramiah God says "before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee" - pre-mortal life. Paul in his letter to the Corinthians speaks of the three degrees of glory. He also talks about baptism for the dead in the same letter. Now I know that most people don't consider any of these to mean what they actually do but that is because misguided individuals try to promote their philosophies insted of actually taking time to study and pray about the truth of these principles that were clearly apparant to the early church. you my friend are just flat wrong----------------where did you study scriptural interpertation and application to know your way is the only right way And my point[i was just having fun with snow] ---was clear cut biblical reference of which you can provide none------critical word being clear

Forth, the Bible makes no clear statement about creation ex nihilo early Christians did not believe in it. It did not appear until the late 2nd century. ATTENTION ATTENTION THREAD INTERUPTION--------------------WARNING WARNING WARNING snow, I would be very carful about using the statement that the Bible doesn't speak clearly about a subject. As the Bible is silent on pre-exsistnce,etenal progression and baptism for the dead----just to name a few of lds beliefs without a Bible based foundation. now back to the tread------and yes I'm having a slow day

I would agree with you to a certain extent. I think it depends alot on what is to be forgotton. What I went thru with outshined can certainly be forgotton. Somebody raping and murdering my wife, now thats another story. But still I believe that there is a place a person can get in Christ that, you could find a place in your heart to not only forgive but forget.-----But I will admit that place would be hard to find--------but it is possible Yes, me too. I could sense sincerity, humility and a true desire to follow the example of Christ inspite of any previous exchanges. If we can't turn the other cheek and forgive/forget how can we expect the Lord to treat us differently. Thank you. It was the fear of God that moved me to do what I did. Not that I am afraid of God, but I just think its unhealthy all around to hold things against another. I think its hard to move ahead in God with those things hanging over a person. when I let it all go------------I found a new me

Well lets see my friend. we already crossed the forgiveness bridge a while back. As for comlpiments I can say this-------------------you are one of the best or at least the hardest debaters I have come up against. You have a very good way of dodging questions and putting things back on the other person-----------------And I mean this in a good way. Bat is the only one that I ever saw that got close to being being able to stay up with you, as it seems he hanked your chain acouple of times. You also have a very suttle sence of humor that I have enjoyed more than one. Now the rain coat was full of holes -----------it was .20cents --------and since when do you have an time of day

Thank you, thats all I ask for. I would hope that over time I could possibly show you a different side of me and that we could once again have good exchanges on matters of faith and doctrine. Thats really the only way that true forgiveness is manifested---that we get better in our relationship. I do agree that for now ---it be best we part ways. Be carfule in Iraq and return home to your loved ones safe and sound, and maybe just maybe we will have a go around ---the good and healthy kind, on another day

I know that sometimes letting things go can be very hard to do. I never asked outshined for an apology. I asked if he would forgive me for my part in all of this and if we could just put this all behind us I look to Matthew 5:21-26 for a reference. I believe that while there is an impass between us---------it hinders us BOTH spiritually. And I don't want my walk with the LORD to be hindered. Forgiveness is at the heart of the gospel=========proving yourself right is not so I am humbling myself before God and summitting myself to outshined, and asking that he forgive me. Thats all Thanks to all who have commented, but I would like outshined to speak for himself--------when he is ready and able to. no pressure and no time table, if and when he is ready

Outshined; Evere since my last post on LDStalk I have been praying and seeking the face of God. It make no difference to Him who is right or who is wrong. He came and gave his life ---to bring forgiveness. Without forgiveness we are on the wrong side of things. Us on one side, Christ on the other. Even though we have different views on awhole lot of things------we should still be respectfull and treat each other with honor. As we would want Christ to treat us. I'm willing to let it all go ----to ask for your forgiveness and that we make amends. I had a terrible thought of you going to Iraq and us never being able to reconcile our differences. I realise that Christ died for you, as he did me. He loves you as he does me. In that we have commonallity------------------------please forgive me roman

Boy for being on ignore-------------which obviously I wasn't--------------i sure get some excited. the reason some are so worked up is because I caugth them in untruths------posted several times that they could not defend or prove now just because I hooked onto a certain post in now way means that i was ONLY addressing the author--------------------I mean this is an OPEN forum. Geezzz the simplest thing get by some. I ain't addressing any one person here Outshined flat out got caught with his pants down in falsehoods ---------false agruments and repeated them often. He doesn't like it that he got caught------he dug the hole not me-----he jumped in-------------------no one pushed him. Now to the minister with the wacked out view. That is NOT a typical Evag. view[another wrong statement by someone} One living with that view -------is on the outher fringe of theolgical understanding of what forgiveness is. And has no understanding of grace I can even look down and see that someone is reading this post after I post it------------------on ignore---------I doubt it ---so I will do it---------Ignore button here I come

A local minister told me this a few years ago. He said that since he "accepted Christ", he can rape, steal, kill children, or anything else he wants to do and is still assured salvation. The minister is either crazy Your making this all up Your taking it out of Context Either way its all wack Its like me reporting that a TBM told me I must accept JS and practice polygamy to be saved -------and my uncle did tell me that

Sorry for the confusion in my answer, But you are wrong that people don't understand why Christ came. His mission his purpose and pretty much everything related has been revealed, It has also been studies ---prayed over and understood-----------by more people than you or I could count!

2007 years since his birth not death. Actually its 2010 or 2011 years quote from WordFLOOD Its been 2000 years since Christ died. Man has had 2000+ years to contemplate the 3 years of Christ's ministry. Even after his death, we as people, still dont truley understand what really happend, and why. roman: I know a lot of people who who disagree with you on this point

With me it YA BOO Its a joke Thats is all

] As I recall, you are Protestant, maybe evangelical or something. Care to comment on how many blacks were ordained into your Church in the US prior to, oh, say 1950 - or into any mainstream white demonination? Well my my what a welcoming suprise. I was kinda worried that I would never see you post again. I must say its very good to hear you again. As to your question. I'm evangelical with the pentecostal twist. The whole pentecostal movement was started thru a black man W. J. Seymour. Well not really started but he was one of the most famous and most of it is attributed to him. Charles Parham was the catalist. So blacks were accepted from day one in our movement. Now not to say that there weren't tentions and rasism in that movement----------------just no official declaration against any racial group, that I know of