War Chapters of the BoM- Symbolic of the War in Heaven?

[Maya]

You remember I been asking about soul adn spirit before... I just cant get it (I am probably just daff...) I dont want to get thsi discusition out of rail, but; anyway:

Alma 40:

11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.

23 The soul shall be restored to the body, and the body to the soul; yea, and every limb and joint shall be restored to its body; yea, even a hair of the head shall not be lost; but all things shall be restored to their proper and perfect frame.

Here it says that soul shall be reataured to the body.... is it just that it means spirit or is this something else? I feel something is mising... where is the spirit? Spirit, body and soul... kind of 3 union there too! Shouldnt spirit unite first with the body and then it is a living soul... what is this soul?

[Justice]

My impression is that sometimes soul and spirit are used interchangeably.

D&C 88:

14 Now, verily I say unto you, that through the redemption which is made for you is brought to pass the resurrection from the dead.

15 And the spirit and the body are the soul of man.

16 And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul.

Much like other terms that are used interchangeably in the scriptures:

Alma 40:

11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection (this isn't entirely accurate because after death and before the resurrection we are spirits and not souls, technically--which he affirms next...)—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.

12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.

13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; (this can't be considered outer darkness yet, technically, because outer darkness is after the judgement) there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.

So, some terms are used synonymously even though they technically aren't.

Soul and Spirit

Hell and Outer Darkness

They CAN have the same meanings, but technically do not.

Spirit is man without a physical body. You are correct. When the spirit and physical body are immortally joined, they become the soul of man, or man becomes a living, breathing soul.

[JudoMinja]

Well, the waters of Sidon is the turn-around point. It is probably much like the large river of water in Lehi's dream. It led to the tree of life, but also separated it from the large and spacious building. It seems to have separated those who chose mortality and a redeemer over those who didn't.

Speculation, obviously.

Also, the "1/3" of the hosts of heaven doesn't necessarily mean 1/3 in number. I believe it merely represented 1 of 3 sides. The number was great, for sure, and may have very well been 1/3 of the total or more.

Notice here in Alma 43 where it talks about how the war started:

(Sidenote: I had always heard that one day Father knew we couldn't progress any more so He sought to forward the plan. I don't buy that. It had to be something else, because some of His spirit children were "older" than others. Why did some get more "time" to progress before earth life? I always felt there was more to it)

Alma 43:

13 And the people of Ammon did give unto the Nephites a large portion of their substance to support their armies; and thus the Nephites were compelled, alone, to withstand against the Lamanites, who were a compound of Laman and Lemuel, and the sons of Ishmael, and all those who had dissented from the Nephites, who were Amalekites and Zoramites, and the descendants of the priests of Noah.

14 Now those descendants were as numerous, nearly, as were the Nephites; and thus the Nephites were obliged to contend with their brethren, even unto bloodshed.

They weren't "obliged" to contend with them until they reached a significant number... nearly as large as they were. So, here are the 3 sides:

1. Those who covenated not to fight

2. Nephites

3. Lamanites, Lemuelites, Ishmaelites, Amalekites, Zoramites, and the descendants of the priests of Noah

When in history have you ever seen a evil side of a war advance against the righteous side with significantly less people? Typically they are cowards and only advance when their numbers are "sufficient."

This theory makes MUCH more sense! Father had to initiate His plan and create the earth because sides were taken and choices were made! We were ready!

All it says is that the disenters were nearly as numerous as the Nephites. We don't know how many chose not to fight, but the remainder was split in about 1/2. It lends itself to being 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3 split... but from this, it all depends on how many entered a covenant of peace. I have yet to find any indication of how many this may have been.

Please share if you find something.

Another thought came to mind when I read this post-

This group that covenanted not to fight can be split even further into another two groups:

We are given two examples- The Anti-Nephi-Lehites, and those Lamanites that had been battling with Zarahemnah.

The first group made a covenant of peace of their own choice and volition. The second was COMPELLED to make the choice. And the Lord said it is good for us if we are humble, because we were COMPELLED to be humble, but how much greater is it for those who were not? Greater blessings are in store for those who are not compelled in all things.

So, two groups that made a covenant of peace-

A willing covenant

And a compelled covenant

[JudoMinja]

I found another lesson in the war chapters yesterday- Chapters 60 and 61

This is where Moroni and Pahoran exchange their letters- Moroni basically chewing Pahoran out for not supplying the armies as he should, and then Pahoran's response that he is dealing with some internal affairs preventing him from doing his job.

Moroni writes with what I would call righteous anger. He is doing everything in his power to fight for the freedom of his people, and his purpose is being frustrated because they are not receiving sufficient supplies. Righteous men are dying and struggling all around him because of the apparent laziness of those being protected by these very men. He has no idea what is preventing them from receiving supplies and asks for an explanation. He calls Pahoran his beloved brother, and he feels hurt that the only explanation he can come up with for this problem is that this very brother must be caught up in wickedness.

Pahoran, instead of being offended by Moroni's harsh words, is overjoyed. He is proud of Moroni for his great strength and faith, and he praises him for his letter. He states that this letter helped him realize that he needed to contend with the growing kingmen within the main city and asked Moroni to come to his aid, stating that once their internal strife was conquered they could more easily fight that which was without.

These men are wonderful examples of the manner we should use in approaching others. We should be firm as Moroni when standing up for ourselves, our beliefs, and our loved ones. We should never waiver in our resolve and not tolerate wickedness. We should be humble, peaceful and understanding as Pahoran when others approach us with harshness. He was not easily offended and knew the cause of Moroni's anger was just. He explained the situation and called out for aid, willing to accept help where he found it instead of rejecting it with a proud heart intent to solve his problems on his own.

This also shows us the importance of conquering internal stife first. These war chapters were started with interal strife when Amalekiah sought to establish himself as a king over the Nephites. Kingmen rose up again when Morianton also sought to establish himself as a king, though he was quickly routed. And now, again, the capital was overrun by more kingmen, preventing Pahoran from sending the armies supplies. Only when they settled their turmoil within were they able to conquer the Lamanites without.

Within ourselves, we often have internal strife. My institute instructor compared this to two wolves warring within us. A kind and gentle one (our spiritual self), and a harsh and violent one (the natural man). The one that wins this fight will be the one we feed.

I also thought, that much of our personal inner turmoil stems from how we feel about ourselves. We suffer from one of two extremes- we either think too highly of ourselves and become prideful, or we think too little of ourselves and become depressed. It is important to find the balance so that we can be sufficiently humble and recognize our self-worth.

Internal turmoil can also be found within our homes. How are we to face the challenges of the world, if we cannot find peace with our own families? We must all work together to build happy homes, parents and children, brothers and sisters. As the family unit is falling apart, so is our nation. If we desire to "fix" the world, we need to start with ourselves and our families.

[Justice]

The one that wins this fight will be the one we feed.

Very good post. All I can say is "Amen, brother!"

I wish I could add 10 thanks for that post.