Guest Taoist_Saint Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Peace@Feb 19 2004, 02:21 PM Personally I say it ain't so....but everything in the Bible can be used in many different settings.As long of wisdom comes from it....then it has done it's job, whether literal, metaphoric, or fable. I totally agree. The Bible is an important book to learn from even if some of its stories (or most) are metaphors or myths.The point of this thread was really just to point out that we cannot prove the Bible is literally true.Just as we cannot prove the BoM is literally true. Quote
Guest Starsky Posted February 20, 2004 Report Posted February 20, 2004 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint+Feb 19 2004, 03:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Taoist_Saint @ Feb 19 2004, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Feb 19 2004, 02:21 PM Personally I say it ain't so....but everything in the Bible can be used in many different settings.As long of wisdom comes from it....then it has done it's job, whether literal, metaphoric, or fable. I totally agree. The Bible is an important book to learn from even if some of its stories (or most) are metaphors or myths.The point of this thread was really just to point out that we cannot prove the Bible is literally true.Just as we cannot prove the BoM is literally true. Some still try...but hopefully....physical proof won't be their only goal and prize. Because it is in it's spiritual teachings and reachings for our eternal soul that we find it's purpose and value. Quote
Guest bizabra Posted February 20, 2004 Report Posted February 20, 2004 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint+Feb 18 2004, 05:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Taoist_Saint @ Feb 18 2004, 05:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Thanks to Snow for this quote...Originally posted by -Snow@Feb 18 2004, 04:40 PM <!--QuoteBegin--Taoist_Saint@Feb 18 2004, 03:52 PM TR2, Please do me a favor and stop quoting the Bible. I don't believe it is anything more than Hebrew mythology... What? How can that be.Do you not believe in talking donkeys?<span style='color:blue'>Numbers 22Balaam and His Donkey27 This time when the donkey saw the angel, it lay down under Balaam. In a fit of rage Balaam beat it again with his staff.28..."What have I done to you that deserves your beating me these three times?" it asked Balaam.29"Because you have made me look like a fool!" Balaam shouted. "If I had a sword with me, I would kill you!"30"But I am the same donkey you always ride on," the donkey answered. "Have I ever done anything like this before?""No," he admitted. So it is ridiculous that the BoM mentions horses existed in ancient America...but it is not ridiculous that donkeys in the Middle East can talk?Show me evidence to prove donkeys can talk. Both are ridiculous. The bible is not a literally "true" document, and the BofM is simply a novel passed off as the "word of god".elinz, many mormon people believe that bible eventsa re FACT and "really happened". Like the Flood. Trust me on this one. Quote
Guest Starsky Posted February 20, 2004 Report Posted February 20, 2004 Originally posted by bizabra+Feb 20 2004, 08:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Feb 20 2004, 08:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Taoist_Saint@Feb 18 2004, 05:32 PM Thanks to Snow for this quote...Originally posted by -Snow@Feb 18 2004, 04:40 PM <!--QuoteBegin--Taoist_Saint@Feb 18 2004, 03:52 PM TR2, Please do me a favor and stop quoting the Bible. I don't believe it is anything more than Hebrew mythology... What? How can that be.Do you not believe in talking donkeys?<span style='color:blue'>Numbers 22Balaam and His Donkey27 This time when the donkey saw the angel, it lay down under Balaam. In a fit of rage Balaam beat it again with his staff.28..."What have I done to you that deserves your beating me these three times?" it asked Balaam.29"Because you have made me look like a fool!" Balaam shouted. "If I had a sword with me, I would kill you!"30"But I am the same donkey you always ride on," the donkey answered. "Have I ever done anything like this before?""No," he admitted. So it is ridiculous that the BoM mentions horses existed in ancient America...but it is not ridiculous that donkeys in the Middle East can talk?Show me evidence to prove donkeys can talk. Both are ridiculous. The bible is not a literally "true" document, and the BofM is simply a novel passed off as the "word of god".elinz, many mormon people believe that bible eventsa re FACT and "really happened". Like the Flood. Trust me on this one. Bizabra, it sounds like you are saying that your beliefs are fact....but they really aren't and someday you will know that...thank heavens. :) Quote
Guest TheProudDuck Posted February 20, 2004 Report Posted February 20, 2004 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Feb 18 2004, 06:39 PM Could someone PLEASE give me proof (or even a convincing explanation) for the story of "Balaam and his talking donkey"? Once again that is found in Numbers 22.If I don't get it, it is totally going to shake my faith in the Bible. Heck, Tao, you've got photographic evidence right there! All we need is an audio.I wonder if Balaam's ###### sounded like Eddie Murphy, too ... ? Quote
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted February 20, 2004 Report Posted February 20, 2004 Heck, Tao, you've got photographic evidence right there!Thanks, man. That comforts me. Quote
USNationalist Posted February 20, 2004 Report Posted February 20, 2004 ....The talking donkey, in my opinion was literal. But trying to validate that in the same since as other biblical aspects is comparing apples to oranges. There is no proof i assume for any of the mircles that happend in the bible (i would say a talking donkey counts as a form of mircle) which part of the religion in which we have faith. Different from setting and characters which can be prooven (or disproven) Quote
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted February 20, 2004 Report Posted February 20, 2004 I haven't had much feedback from anyone providing the evidence for the historical parts of the Bible.We know Egypt, Canaan, Rome, etc. existed...and many of the cities mentioned too...but that doesn't prove the events of the Bible.But outside the Bible, we don't have evidence for actual characters and events.I think some of the miracles can be proven if they were real.For example, the Tower of Babel could be found someday...but it hasn't yet.Geological evidence for the Flood shoud be available.Well, you have my list of 10 questions, so I think you know what I am trying to say. Quote
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted February 20, 2004 Report Posted February 20, 2004 Originally posted by USNationalist@Feb 20 2004, 01:06 PM ....The talking donkey, in my opinion was literal. If a donkey can talk...if God can destroy the Tower of Babel leaving no evidence...if God can flood the world leaving no evidence......then why can't the Nephites and Lamanites have existed, had all their evidence removed by God...and why couldn't Joseph Smith have translated gold plated by looking in a hat?Both scenarios seem equally possible (or impossible). Quote
Traveler Posted February 21, 2004 Report Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Feb 18 2004, 04:48 PM Ok, to go along with the "Proof of the Book of Mormon" thread, I thought I would start this one.Let's list all the proofs for the truth of the Bible. I'll start: ummm...Ancient Egyptian civilization existed. That is a small bit of proof for "Exodus". To answer the question - The greatest proof in our time of the scriptures that have been perserved as the Bible is the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is also the greatest proof since the writtings of the "Gospels" that Jesus really is the Christ. The problem the world has is that the Book of Mormon is too powerful of a proof - therefore it must be opposed - even with violence and the murder if necessary. There is nothing new under the sun.The Traveler Quote
Jenda Posted February 21, 2004 Report Posted February 21, 2004 Josephus talks about Christ and James, his brother. Quote
Traveler Posted February 21, 2004 Report Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 20 2004, 07:21 PM Josephus talks about Christ and James, his brother. There is also a document from what is now Iran that has been carbon dated to the time of Christ and DNA tested to show it came from Jerusalem that was written by the hand of a person claiming to be the Jesus that is thought to be the Christ.The Traveler Quote
Cal Posted February 21, 2004 Report Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 20 2004, 07:21 PM Josephus talks about Christ and James, his brother. The problem with the Josephus references to Jesus is that, as you read the whole sections, the paragraphs that refer to Jesus are clearly interjections completely out of context with the rest of the section. It is pretty evident that the references were interjected afterwards by someone who wanted the reference included after the original texts. Also, not all of the originals of the Josephus texts contained the reference to Jesus which is further evidence that Josephus, himself, probably didn't really mention him. Quote
Guest bizabra Posted February 21, 2004 Report Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 20 2004, 07:21 PM Josephus talks about Christ and James, his brother. Some scholars think that these passages in Josephus history were added later (and not by Josephus), in order to provide "proof" for the historicity of Jesus. Quote
Cal Posted February 21, 2004 Report Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by Ray+Feb 18 2004, 05:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Feb 18 2004, 05:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--elinz@Feb 18 2004, 05:04 PM You still haven't understood the difference between the"narrative" style and the deeper meaning that is oftenpresented as a "parable".When someone says it is "God's Word" they mean thatit defines a "truth" which is a "pattern" of the way thngsreally are. Deep truths are not attached to specifics.When the narrative style is used it introduces the possibilityof error because it attempts to make a literal story ofan event.By focusing on the details you miss the deeper meaning.So the dilemma is this:Use the narrative and risk "detail error".orUse parables and risk "intellectual failure".Neither choice is perfect, but that's the diffculty in tryingto communicate complex ideas.People are incredibly stupid, unfortunately... That’s an interesting idea, but I see things differently. I think the truth is in the details, it’s just that all the details aren’t fully understood.For instance, I believe Adam and Eve are the parents of all “humans” who have ever been born on the Earth. The only exception is Jesus, because His father was our heavenly Father. But then again, He wasn’t exactly “human” like the rest of us, so I can truthfully say that all “humans” who were ever born on this Earth descended from Adam and Eve. Jesus was both “human” and “divine”, because His mother was a “human” and His father was “divine”. I could get a little more specific about what it means to be “human” or “divine”, but I think I’ll stop there for now.Some people say that Adam and Eve didn’t really exist, or if they did exist, that those names are only a reference to non-specific persons.Like I said, I believe the truth is in the details, and that you must understand every little detail about everything before you can understand all of the truth. Ray--it is also said that "the Devil is in the details"--in fact, that was the original phrase. Clearly you take the literalist view of the bible. The "details" of the Bible are often indefensible considering the clear contradictions within itself and the way in which many details (again, if taken literally) play havoc with even the most elementary science. For example, if there is one thing that is clear from human DNA analysis it is that the human ancestery goes back WAY before any literal Adam and Eve. Also, even the Americas were populated with native americans as far back as 10 to 15 thousand years.By the way, why do you insist that the Bible be taken so literally in every detail, insisting that every detail is the word of God. Even BY said the Bible contains "the word of God, the word of man, and the word of the devil". And of course, the problem is, which part it which? Quote
Guest Starsky Posted February 21, 2004 Report Posted February 21, 2004 By the way, why do you insist that the Bible be taken so literally in every detail, insisting that every detail is the word of God. Even BY said the Bible contains "the word of God, the word of man, and the word of the devil". And of course, the problem is, which part it which? The Holy Ghost Cal....it all become very clear when you accept the promptings of Truth. Quote
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