A New Word Of Wisdom Problem?

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by BenRaines@Dec 7 2005, 07:30 PM

I like the saying "I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves"  We should not have to be commanded in all things.

I totally agree with this quote, and I wish it really worked that way.

Unfortunately in practice, with the WoW question being on the Temple Recommend interview, people will NOT be able to govern themselves...of course, we still have free agency to interpret the WoW for ourselves...but only until we will be forced to conform to the standards our bishop's interpretation of the WoW...if we want to get or renew our Temple Recommends.

If your bishop believes Coke and Pepsi are against the WoW, you will probably need to stop drinking them to be able to answer the Temple Recommend questions honestly.

The only chance to follow your own interpretation is to hope the bishop never clarifies his position on the WoW

I don't know where it is taught in Gospel Essentials or Gospel Doctrine or any other, what I would call, approved material that it is tannic acid that we do not drink hot drinks.

Maybe it will be changed in the next edition...continuing revelation and all that...

Oh, and by the way...I think this new Coke sounds like it might be good, since I like both Coke and Coffee. I don't know how it will taste together, but I will be sure to try it.

:)

[BenRaines]

I have conducted many of those recommend interviews and the question is:

Do you obey the Word of Wisdom.

Do you pay an honest tithe.

The guide to asking the questions says to ask them just as they are. You are not to add to them or to ask them to be defined by those in the interview. If the person being interviewed asks what does it mean then Bishop can explain as he sees it.

The opportunity is for the person being interviewed to answer the questions. They are yes and no questions. They don't ask for a testimony to be given or any explanations to be given.

That is how I understand it.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jason@Dec 7 2005, 10:36 AM

Hot drinks = hard liquor. 

←

Huh?

Like that Hot Banana Daiquiri or the Steaming Gin Martini?

[Snow]

Originally posted by Ray@Dec 7 2005, 02:49 PM

I would rather see someone who has charity and is NOT sanctimonious.

It is possible, you know.

←

We just submitted this post to the Standards Board of Review and they have ruled that you have to understand a word before you are legally allowed to use it in a post.

That's a jouke Ray.

[LionHeart]

Thank you Maureen for the info on the tannic acid. I do know that iced tea is also taught as being against the w.o.w. so there must be something in tea and coffee other than them being hot drinks. However I heard somewhere that the reason the w.o.w. was given in the first place is because some people were judging other people because of their eating habits so thus a standard was given. But even up to the time of his death, Joseph Smith still enjoyed a cup of coffee from time to time. So I agree with what was mentioned before: "Eat sparingly, with thanksgiving and moderation in all things." I believe this to be the higher standard.

[Snow]

Originally posted by ToasterOfen@Dec 7 2005, 10:49 AM

However, Pepsi, Coke, Mountain Dew, etc. were not around at the time the WoW was given; so who knows, if the WoW was "given" today, those drinks may have been included.  But...we are given the power of discernment, so we don't have to be told every little detail of what we can and cannot do/have.

←

I wouldn't count on it. Wine and beer were not included in the Word of Wisdom and Joseph Smith drank wine from time to time up until his death.

[Heather]

It's not like Joseph Smith was the only prophet who received revelation for governing commandments and doctorine. Any prophet now and past could've added to the word of wisdom.

[Heather]

Q&A:

Questions and Answers

Answers are for help and perspective, not as pronouncements of Church doctrine

Gospel topic: teaching

“Is it against Church standards to drink cola beverages or any other beverage containing caffeine?”

Answer/Bishop H. Burke Peterson

This is a very perplexing question to many. Maybe we should lead into its answer by first recounting a true story. Many years ago the ruler of Babylon was King Nebuchadnezzar. There was a war going on between Babylon and Judah. During the war King Nebuchadnezzar’s army was laying siege to Jerusalem. After capturing the city, the king, knowing of the fine quality of the Judean young people, instructed his leaders to capture certain of these young men of Israel who had royal blood in their veins. They were known to be strong of body and of mind and skillful in all wisdom. King Nebuchadnezzar wanted to raise them in his court that they might be a strength to his own people. The king set up a program where they would be given a daily provision of meat and wine—the same quality that he ate and drank. His plan was to have them thus fed and taught for three years and then to have them brought before him to be observed and tested with the thought in mind of then using the best of them as some of his country’s leaders.

Among those captured was a young man named Daniel and his three friends. When Daniel was told what he was to eat and drink, he was disturbed. He did not wish to eat the king’s food nor drink his wine for he knew it would be damaging to his body and mind. Now the Lord had made it possible for Daniel to become a good friend to the king’s chief servant. Daniel asked the chief servant if he could eat and drink something different that he might not defile his body. Daniel told the servant that he knew he and his friends would be stronger and wiser than all the other captured young men if he would allow them to eat proper foods. The servant was afraid the king would take his head if he disobeyed. However, Daniel talked the servant into letting him eat another kind of food and drink only water for just ten days. This was to be a test to see if there wasn’t a difference between him and his friends and all the others. The chief servant consented, and at the end of the ten days Daniel said the servant looked upon them and “their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king’s meat.”

After seeing the results, the chief servant then allowed these four to continue eating and drinking the good food they wished. The scripture says, “As for these four children, God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom: and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.” (Dan. 1:17.)

At the end of the three years King Nebuchadnezzar had them all brought before him to be questioned and tested. The record says that among them all, none was found like Daniel and his friends. In all matters of wisdom and understanding the king found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers who were in his kingdom. What a tribute and blessing to four courageous young men who would not defile their bodies with food and drink that was not good for them! Even then Daniel understood the Lord’s law of health.

The Word of Wisdom is a guide to strengthening the body and mind and keeping them healthy so the spirit of the individual can function without impairment. If we understand the Word of Wisdom properly, we will do all things necessary to avoid weakening the marvelous temple the Lord has given us to house our spirit.

The revelation in the 89th section of the Doctrine and Covenants says:

“And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man.” (D&C 89:10.)

We should notice the word wholesome and always consider the things that we take into our body as to whether they are wholesome or not. The scripture continues, “All these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.” (D&C 89:11.) Consider the word prudence. Would eating a whole apple pie or a cake or watermelon at one sitting be prudent? It is contrary to the principles embodied in the Word of Wisdom to take an excess of anything into our bodies.

Two of the tests we can employ as we question the use of any food or beverage are: Is it wholesome? Is it prudent? As we know, some of us need more rest than others. These same principles imply that we should not tax our bodies beyond good judgment. Finally, remember that the Lord has counseled:

“For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.” (D&C 58:26.)

We know that cola drinks contain the drug caffeine. We know caffeine is not wholesome nor prudent for the use of our bodies. It is only sound judgment to conclude that cola drinks and any others that contain caffeine or other harmful ingredients should not be used.

For those who are willing to exhibit the same courage and good judgment as the boy Daniel:

“And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

“And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

“And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

“And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.” (D&C 89:18–21.)

[LionHeart]

That is an excellent point Heather. It is important to notice in verse two of D&C 89 (the word of wisdom) it says: "to be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint...." So we can gather from this that the word of wisdom is suggestion and not commandment, concerning our temporal salvation; or in other words: so we can live a long healthy life. Another scripture that would apply to this is D&C 130:20-21. "There is a law irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundation of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated. And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

Therefore, in the word of wisdom, we are given the law, and we are also told of the blessings we will recieve for obeying that law. A man cannot plant peas and get carrots. So if we desire to attain the blessings promised in the word of wisdom, we must live by the counsels therein; absolutely not forgetting verse 18: "And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO THE COMMANDMENTS, shall recieve health in their navel and marrow to their bones." So in other words, one of the requirements of recieving the promised blessings is living God's commandments; which would include having charity. All we need to do is choose.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by ToasterOfen@Dec 7 2005, 11:53 AM

And yes, Jason is right...coffee and [tea] (I accidentally said tobacco first) are not specifically named in the WoW in D&C.  But I think "hot drinks" does equal coffee and tea, and "strong drinks" to wine and alcohol.

←

BIZ: How come cocoa is not considered a "hot drink"? We give it to our kiddies, don't we?

BTW, my Mom thinks pepsi is OK, but Coke is not. LOL

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by BenRaines@Dec 7 2005, 08:14 PM

I have conducted many of those recommend interviews and the question is:

Do you obey the Word of Wisdom.

Do you pay an honest tithe.

The guide to asking the questions says to ask them just as they are.  You are not to add to them or to ask them to be defined by those in the interview. 

Yea, I think that is correct. What I mean is that if you already know your bishops definition of the WoW, and you know you have a TR interview in the future, many people might adopt their bishops views on the WoW in order to be able to give an honest "yes". Other people may not worry about that, and interpret the question however they wish.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Snow+Dec 7 2005, 08:59 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Dec 7 2005, 10:36 AM

Hot drinks = hard liquor. 

←

Huh?

Like that Hot Banana Daiquiri or the Steaming Gin Martini?

←

This makes sense, in that hard liquor does warm the belly. But who knows if this could be what JS (or was it God) really meant?

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by LionHeart@Dec 7 2005, 09:17 PM

Joseph Smith still enjoyed a cup of coffee from time to time.

Anyone have a reference for that? And a reference that he drank wine, as was also mentioned?

I don't doubt it...I just want a source.

[LionHeart]

Sure thing toaist, I read it in a book called "The Kingdom Or Nothing" it is a book about the history of John Taylor; covering from the time of his conversion to the church to the time of his death. Written by his own grandson Samuel W. Taylor. However I couldn't tell you what page it is on. The book is about 300-400 pages long.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Thanks!

[Jason]

Originally posted by LionHeart@Dec 8 2005, 01:43 PM

Sure thing toaist, I read it in a book called "The Kingdom Or Nothing" it is a book about the history of John Taylor; covering from the time of his conversion to the church to the time of his death. Written by his own grandson Samuel W. Taylor. However I couldn't tell you what page it is on. The book is about 300-400 pages long.

←

Isn't that the book that was repackaged with the title "The Last Pioneer: John Taylor, Mormon Prophet" by Signature Books?

Have you read "Family Kingdom" by Taylor? It's about his dad, the excommunicated LDS Apostle who wouldn't give up polygamy after 1904?

[Lindy]

Originally posted by BenRaines@Dec 7 2005, 02:32 PM

Brings us back to agency doesn't it.  I would rather see someone drinking a Coke or a Pepsi every now and then and having charity than someone who is sanctimonious about Coke and Pepsi use and has no charity.

←

Ohhh Good Post Ben!

I feel the same way.

Who are we to judge anyone on who they really are inside by what they drink or don't drink?

[LionHeart]

*Jason* That may be the same book, I know The Kingdom Or Nothing was only in print for a few years. Perhaps it just had a name change instead of going out of print.

Yes I have read The Family Kingdom. Both books have some interesting content.

[Justlooking]

Caffiene from the coffee plant/teas also counts as a vegetable in my book.

Caffiene has some benefits like it helps with swelling and pain and asthma attacks.

It also increases endurance and preformance in physical activities. Studies also show that it protects the liver.

Just like with anything, dont over do it