Christian Values

[sgallan]

I’m sorry about what has happened between you and your wife, but it is still possible for your wife and family to overcome all of the obstacles that are keeping you apart and become even closer than you were before.

That is her call not mine. She left us and could come back if she wanted. I think the drugs fried her brain but good this time. She has until about March to make that decision. Because after that I am selling out (before I get too much in debt), paying her her portion of the proceeds, filing for divorce, and moving even further away.

[Guest ToasterOfen]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 12 2005, 02:30 PM

If I were God I'd do something about my shoulder popping out all of the time. The rotator cuff pain. And wouldn't need to live on Ibuprofrin. Oh yeah, and my frickin estranged wife wouldn't have started up on meth.... ending up abandoning her husband and child.

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Sgallan...you seem a bit bitter...I'm not saying you don't have every right to be, your situation stinks, but I have just noticed a hint of bitterness in most of your posts. (I tend to pick up on subtleties, and this is one that I noticed.)

My situation is different, yes, but there are similarities...I was given some very crappy situations in life (click here to read about some of it) and can understand your hurt and frustration… (You can overlook the spiritual tones of it if you'd like...that isn't why I wanted you to read it. I just wanted to point out my situation, and what I had been through. But those situations led me to my faith...)

I’m sorry, and feel for you…and I can understand you saying that “if there was a God he would make everything better for me”…I hear that from my dad a lot, and wondered that myself a time or two. But I think that maybe your hurt is preventing you from feeling “something” that could be healing to you.

[sgallan]

Sgallan...you seem a bit bitter...I'm not saying you don't have every right to be, your situation stinks, but I have just noticed a hint of bitterness in most of your posts. (I tend to pick up on subtleties, and this is one that I noticed.My situation is different, yes, but there are similarities...I was given some very crappy situations in life (click here to read about some of it) and can understand your hurt and frustration…

Sometimes I post that way for effect. I do have some bitterness towards the mom who left her baby and the crap she STILL pulls. But that is about it. Usually I am too busy to be bitter. Today I did a little post control, some homeschooling, graded some college papers (most of my students are inmates), and played on boards. In a couple of minutes the kid and I will leave to lift some weights, I'll coach some kids until 6:30 MST, then drop the kid off at tae kwan do and do some shopping. Pick her up and then unwind with a couple of beers. At 6:00 AM there is a practice I run tommorrow morning... and so on. I keep busy enough to let things get to me too much. Even the move.... it will enable me to keep afloat, get a new start, and is a much better place to develop my kids talents as I've run out of training partners for her.

I’m sorry, and feel for you…and I can understand you saying that “if there was a God he would make everything better for me”…

No, this part isn't true. I really don't believe in a god. My last attempt at religion wasn't all bad. I made some friends and met some really nice people. I just didn't believe it is all. This has been me most of my life. If people are genetically inclined to be believers I must be a mutant.

I hear that from my dad a lot, and wondered that myself a time or two. But I think that maybe your hurt is preventing you from feeling “something” that could be healing to you.

Actually while I appreciate your concern, the place you are talking about is where I was until about August.... when I mostly came out of my funk. Life isn't grand but it ain't bad. Thanks though. :)

[Guest ToasterOfen]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 12 2005, 03:16 PM

I’m sorry, and feel for you…and I can understand you saying that “if there was a God he would make everything better for me”…

No, this part isn't true. I really don't believe in a god.

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When you said: "If I were God I'd do something about..." it led me to believe that maybe at one point you did beleive in God, and were maybe conciously or uncouncously angry or upset at Him. I know you don't beleive in God now, but don't/didn't know if you ever did.

As I reread what you wrote, I understand that you were writing purely as "if I was God I would do this", rather than "if there was a God he would make everything better for me". Being a religious forum, the latter would be the expected response...and being religiously minded, I read it that way.

I'm glad you and your daughter are doing well. I have looked at some the links you provided and saw pictures of your daughter, she is adorable! Continued good luck and blessings to you both.

[Ray]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 12 2005, 03:16 PM

I really don't believe in a god.

Why do you continue to say this, Scott? Are you trying to convince yourself?

You do believe in a god, and I know you know you know that.

[Jason]

Hey Scott,

Being a Deist myself, I completely understand your position. It's my belief that there is a Supreme Light of some kind out there, and that this is what we are all a part of.

The Gods of men were invented by Priestcrafters to subdue mankind. It's all about power. Some of these gods may be useful in some way, but generally, Im with you, many (if not all) are worthless.

As for Yahweh (aka Jehovah), it's my view that he is one of the meaner gods created by man. He's jealous, sadistic, a blatant liar, and generally a bad dude.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 12 2005, 08:51 AM

Well there's a difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives generally think that is alright to put to death brutal multiple murderers but that innocent life ought be protected while liberals generally think that multiple murderers ought be spared (and sometimes nominated for Nobel prizes) while innocent life (through abortion) is perfectly acceptable.

Well as long as we are continuing generalities..... those same conservatives forget about those who are actually born..... except when around 20 years later (often less) those born committ some crime, where their answer is to then lock-em up and throw away the key. It does look like a pretty brutal society all the way around from my view.

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I don't want to be associated with either the conservatives or the liberals.

There is nothing "christian" (or "moral") about the values of either side.

Both are only willing to believe the worst about the other, regardless of evidence of the truth of the claims being made.

“Bush lied about WMDs."

“Liberals don't care if we are safe from terrorists."

“The US went into Iraq unilaterally, which set a bad example for other countries who wish to defy the UN."

“Liberals are traitors who routinely side with the enemy and aim to destroy America."

"Republicans want to declare a Christian theocracy."

"Liberals want to abolish all religion."

"Republicans don't care about the lives of anyone except rich white men."

"Liberals don't care about unborn children, and want to encourage abortion."

"Republicans believe there is only one absolute truth, and that is oppressive."

"Liberals believe morality is relative, so that people can do whatever they want."

“Republicans are Nazis."

“Liberals are Commies."

This is the lesson we're teaching our children (and the world) about America. And if this trend continues, America is on the road to dividing into two separate countries. This is how civil wars get started.

I honestly wonder, are liberals and conservatives the best this country has to offer us?

[sgallan]

This is the lesson we're teaching our children (and the world) about America. And if this trend continues, America is on the road to dividing into two separate countries. This is how civil wars get started.

The two sides already talk in war like terms. I just want to know when the shooting starts.

I honestly wonder, are liberals and conservatives the best this country has to offer us?

Apparently....

[sgallan]

Being a Deist myself, I completely understand your position. It's my belief that there is a Supreme Light of some kind out there, and that this is what we are all a part of.

My ten year old would best be described as a Diest. And if that is what she ends up as.... I would be comfortable with that.

[sgallan]

Why do you continue to say this, Scott? Are you trying to convince yourself?

You do believe in a god, and I know you know you know that.

You are being silly Ray. But I do believe in an Invisible Fire Breathing Dragon. It lives under my house. I am on the fence about the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

http://www.venganza.org/

[sgallan]

When you said: "If I were God I'd do something about..." it led me to believe that maybe at one point you did beleive in God, and were maybe conciously or uncouncously angry or upset at Him. I know you don't beleive in God now, but don't/didn't know if you ever did.

I tried a few years back but it never felt right. When I was a kid I did for sure.

As I reread what you wrote, I understand that you were writing purely as "if I was God I would do this", rather than "if there was a God he would make everything better for me". Being a religious forum, the latter would be the expected response...and being religiously minded, I read it that way.

I probably should put "posited" whenever I say the word "God" but it gets so cumbersome to do that.

I'm glad you and your daughter are doing well. I have looked at some the links you provided and saw pictures of your daughter, she is adorable! Continued good luck and blessings to you both.

Thank you. I got to go get her from Tae Kwan Do in a bit. Besides the wrestling, she is working on her Black Belt. In a few years when she says "no", and a young-un with too much testosterone has forgotten the meaning of that particular word.... she will re-educate him.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 12 2005, 06:39 PM

This is the lesson we're teaching our children (and the world) about America. And if this trend continues, America is on the road to dividing into two separate countries. This is how civil wars get started.

The two sides already talk in war like terms. I just want to know when the shooting starts.

I honestly wonder, are liberals and conservatives the best this country has to offer us?

Apparently....

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Is there a word that is used for people who are trying to polarize the country? It gets tiring typing out "liberals and conservatives" when I want to describe someone who is contributing to the destruction of America.

I guess "polarizers" would work, but it isn't derogatory enough for the way I feel about them.

I need a word that truly describes the destructiveness of their behavior

[Snow]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 12 2005, 07:51 AM

Well there's a difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives generally think that is alright to put to death brutal multiple murderers but that innocent life ought be protected while liberals generally think that multiple murderers ought be spared (and sometimes nominated for Nobel prizes) while innocent life (through abortion) is perfectly acceptable.

Well as long as we are continuing generalities..... those same conservatives forget about those who are actually born..... except when around 20 years later (often less) those born committ some crime, where their answer is to then lock-em up and throw away the key. It does look like a pretty brutal society all the way around from my view.

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Don't go all mushy-brained on me sgallan.

A standard liberal stance is pro-abortion rights and anti-death sentence for murderers.

A standard conservative stance is prolife and often pro-death sentence for murderers.

No where does anyone, conservative or liberal have a stance that you forget about those who are born. It's a nothing statement. A case can probably be made that conservatives are more pro-family and thus less likely to fit your imagined definition than liberals.

[Snow]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 12 2005, 08:41 AM

Therefore not wanting to spend an eternity with such a god, or a number of his denizens (like Roman or many of the more hardcore Utah LDS), is pretty natural to me.

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Yes - the horror! Spending forever with an all-kind, all just God whose primary purpose is to make man happy.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Ray@Dec 12 2005, 01:12 PM

And just to help you out a little, the word "God" is simply a word we use to refer to the most supreme being in all of existence, so no matter which parameters you use to determine which beings are more supreme than others, you do believe in "God".

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Nobody but Anslem uses such a ridiculous defintion. I don't. No one does.

[sgallan]

No where does anyone, conservative or liberal have a stance that you forget about those who are born. It's a nothing statement. A case can probably be made that conservatives are more pro-family and thus less likely to fit your imagined definition than liberals.

Make that case.

[sgallan]

Yes - the horror! Spending forever with an all-kind, all just God whose primary purpose is to make man happy.

But only if you kiss his butt and act like a conseravtive Christian in this particular theology. At least that is the popular definition of the LDS god. Other definitions are better, and others are worse....

[Outshined]

AKA, if you do what is right...

[sgallan]

AKA, if you do what is right...

Well if that is what this posited God considers right, then I don't want to go to be with that god. It's a win/win. He, and folks like you, don't want folks like me, and vice-versa. It's all good.

[Outshined]

Actually, that is just your personal twist on what God has told us is right. No mention of "butt-kissing" or "acting like conservative Christians" in scripture or LDS theology; that is simply your misconception.

[sgallan]

Actually, that is just your personal twist on what God has told us is right. No mention of "butt-kissing" or "acting like conservative Christians" in scripture or LDS theology; that is simply your misconception

Actually, I am familiar with the theology. Now if y'all want to believe in such a God, and think this religion is the way to God, I don't have an issue with it.... unless it crosses over into my world. I am simply saying I wouldn't want to spend time in such a place, nor raise a child in such a religion. The values don't match. If it all works for you then keep it. It wouldn't/doesn't work for me.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 08:50 AM

Actually, I am familiar with the theology. Now if y'all want to believe in such a God, and think this religion is the way to God, I don't have an issue with it.... unless it crosses over into my world. I am simply saying I wouldn't want to spend time in such a place, nor raise a child in such a religion. The values don't match. If it all works for you then keep it. It wouldn't/doesn't work for me.

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And yet you devote so much time (on more than one board of which I am aware) to following LDS members around arguing...

[sgallan]

And yet you devote so much time (on more than one board of which I am aware) to following LDS members around arguing...

Nah, you guys will chase me off before long. I am terribly out numbered. I have noticed Godless Heathens are not really welcome on religious boards.

I spend most of my board time on a wrestling board. But they have a wrestling non-issues section.... there I get to argue with evangelicals and other fundamentalist sorts. That and other topics. It's a fun board and way busier than this one. Those fundamentalist though.... they are way meaner than are the LDS.... present company excepted.

I am doing a good job padding my post count with you though....

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 08:59 AM

I am doing a good job padding my post count with you though....

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No kidding. Perhaps there is a prize...

[sgallan]

No kidding. Perhaps there is a prize...

You get half. I may be a heathen beyond redemption... but I am an honest one.