I Am Speechless

[Snow]

Originally posted by Maureen+Dec 12 2005, 01:33 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray@Dec 12 2005, 02:28 PM

Very sad.  People that old should know better.

Ray, it appears that $500 a month is not cutting it for the seniors. The cost of living is still more than their income. Something's gotta change and I don't think putting them in jail is the answer.

M.

←

1. Don't do the crime if you would prefer not to do the time - even if you're you have osteoporosis.

2. If you plan to live long enough to get osteoporosis - save your money early.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jason+Dec 12 2005, 03:04 PM-->

Originally posted by Ray@Dec 12 2005, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Jason@Dec 12 2005, 03:44 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray@Dec 12 2005, 04:10 PM

Heh, that may sound like a win/win situation, but if they were really smart they would become members of the Church and receive all the assistance they need, including many opportunites to learn how to provide for themselves.

As I said, people that old should know better.

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Or we could have the government do a better job of helping out low income seniors, without cramming someone's religion down their throat.

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You mean like how some people do when they try to tell the government how they believe they should do things?

Heh, I think some people fail to see how religion involves everything.

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Ray, I was being nice. Im not talking about religion, Im talking about proselyting. Im very well aware of the number of "converts" who join for welfare assistance. When that assistance is cut off, so goes the convert.

Pretty poor way of forcing others to think and believe like you.

Proselyting is, in my view, one of the worst things about Mormonism.

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What kind of twisted thinking is that? (Don't answer, I already know.) A Church that looks after it's own though tithes and fast offerings is FORCING itself on people.

You really have to be tweaked to see it that way.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Snow+Dec 12 2005, 07:15 PM-->

Originally posted by Jason@Dec 12 2005, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Ray@Dec 12 2005, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Jason@Dec 12 2005, 03:44 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray@Dec 12 2005, 04:10 PM

Heh, that may sound like a win/win situation, but if they were really smart they would become members of the Church and receive all the assistance they need, including many opportunites to learn how to provide for themselves.

As I said, people that old should know better.

←

Or we could have the government do a better job of helping out low income seniors, without cramming someone's religion down their throat.

←

You mean like how some people do when they try to tell the government how they believe they should do things?

Heh, I think some people fail to see how religion involves everything.

←

Ray, I was being nice. Im not talking about religion, Im talking about proselyting. Im very well aware of the number of "converts" who join for welfare assistance. When that assistance is cut off, so goes the convert.

Pretty poor way of forcing others to think and believe like you.

Proselyting is, in my view, one of the worst things about Mormonism.

←

What kind of twisted thinking is that? (Don't answer, I already know.) A Church that looks after it's own though tithes and fast offerings is FORCING itself on people.

You really have to be tweaked to see it that way.

←

Are you on crack? I said no such thing. There's nothing wrong with helping out your fellow members. At this early part of the discussion, we were talking about people joining your church for the Welfare $$$. How that's not such a great reasons, and so forth.

Now were at a point of debate on the methods of bringing converts into your church.

Clearly, I disagree with your entire system. I see it as fundamentally wrong.

[sgallan]

1. Don't do the crime if you would prefer not to do the time - even if you're you have osteoporosis.

2. If you plan to live long enough to get osteoporosis - save your money early.

And if stuff happens where you are 89 and don't have enough...... deal those drugs.... and you'll get care one way or another.

[Outshined]

I agree; age has nothing to do with it when you're committing drug (or any other)crimes.

[sgallan]

I agree; age has nothing to do with it when you're committing drug (or any other)crimes.

I'm still going to do what I have to do to survive. And if I go to jail.... hey, free care. Free bed. Food. Free meds.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 07:30 AM

I agree; age has nothing to do with it when you're committing drug (or any other)crimes.

I'm still going to do what I have to do to survive. And if I go to jail.... hey, free care. Free bed. Food. Free meds.

←

That's the attitude, Always look at the bright side!

[sgallan]

That's the attitude, Always look at the bright side!

When you are 89, on oxygen, and out of money, that is indeed the bright side.

[Outshined]

If you're selling drugs illegally, making you stop is a bright side. B)

[sgallan]

If you're selling drugs illegally, making you stop is a bright side.

I agree. That's why I called it a win/win situation.

[Outshined]

Certainly; the police get another drug dealer off the streets and you get a warm cell.

[sgallan]

Certailny; the police get another drug dealer off the streets and you get a warm cell.

Which if I am 89, and out of money, is exactly what I need. It's perfect and free. As an 89 year old with a walker on oxygen I ain't going far.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 08:46 AM

Which if I am 89, and out of money, is exactly what I need. It's perfect and free. As an 89 year old with a walker on oxygen I ain't going far.

←

Well if you could guarantee that the drugs you sold wouldn't end up in the local middle school (as they did here recently), you'd have an argument for staying out of jail.

Otherwise, you're one more person selling drugs and knowingly breaking the law...

[sgallan]

Well if you could guarantee that the drugs you sold wouldn't end up in the local middle school (as they did here recently), you'd have an argument for staying out of jail.

Otherwise, you're one more person selling drugs and knowingly breaking the law...

Perfect then...... I either get the money, or the cell. Which is what my 89 self needed. It is win/win for me.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 08:54 AM

Perfect then...... I either get the money, or the cell. Which is what my 89 self needed. It is win/win for me.

←

In that situation, the cell is better for you.

[sgallan]

In that situation, the cell is better for you.

I agree.

[Ray]

Okay, let me get this straight.

Scott was telling Outshined that if he was illegally selling drugs at 89 years of age, then either receiving money or going to a jail cell would be a win/win situation, to which Outshined responded by telling Scott that if he was illegally selling drugs to others, then it would be better for Scott to go to a jail cell than to receive the money from selling those drugs, to which Scott replied by saying that he agreed.

Did I get that right?

Heh, so much for being speechless.

[sgallan]

Scott was telling Outshined that if he was illegally selling drugs at 89 years of age, then either receiving money or going to a jail cell would be a win/win situation, to which Outshined responded by telling Scott that if he was illegally selling drugs to others, then it would be better for Scott to go to a jail cell than to receive the money from selling those drugs, to which Scott replied by saying that he agreed.

And vice-versa.

[sgallan]

This is one of those moral dilemma's become real life situations. It reminds me of another one.....

Let's I am the son of a mother going through chemo. Marijuana - which is a felony in many states - helps her. It may be physiological, or it may be psychological, but it really doesn't make a dimes worth of difference because it helps her in some way..... and she says so. When you are almost dead, whatever works.... works. If nothing else it helps her eat. So what do I do? Do I not get her the marijuana because it is illegal and I might get into trouble? Or do I help my mommy, who gave to me more than I could EVER pay back? Well to me what I do is a no-brainer.

Been there, done that.....

.... you get to guess me and my brothers decision.

PS - She lived. The odds were very much against her doing so. Breast Cancer spread through all the lymph nodes 12 years ago and the survival rate for this was not good.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jason+Dec 12 2005, 03:32 PM-->

Originally posted by Ray@Dec 12 2005, 05:17 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Dec 12 2005, 04:04 PM

Proselyting is, in my view, one of the worst things about Mormonism.

←

How do you define "proselyting", Jason?

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Attempting to persuade others to believe like you do.

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So is it fair to say that you think that proselytizing is one of the worst things about Jason?

Answer = yes?

[Snow]

Originally posted by Jason@Dec 12 2005, 05:30 PM

Are you on crack?  I said no such thing.  There's nothing wrong with helping out your fellow members.  At this early part of the discussion, we were talking about people joining your church for the Welfare $$$.  How that's not such a great reasons, and so forth. 

Now were at a point of debate on the methods of bringing converts into your church. 

Clearly, I disagree with your entire system.  I see it as fundamentally wrong.

←

On crack? You mean now? Er - no.

This is what you said:

Im not talking about religion, Im talking about proselyting. Im very well aware of the number of "converts" who join for welfare assistance. When that assistance is cut off, so goes the convert.

Pretty poor way of forcing others to think and believe like you.

Maybe that not what you intended to say but I didn't misinterpret what you actually did say.

[Snow]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 05:30 AM

I agree; age has nothing to do with it when you're committing drug (or any other)crimes.

I'm still going to do what I have to do to survive. And if I go to jail.... hey, free care. Free bed. Food. Free meds.

←

Yeah - I don't think so. You don't strike me as the amoral type.

[Outshined]

Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 13 2005, 09:44 PM

This is one of those moral dilemma's become real life situations. It reminds me of another one.....

Let's I am the son of a mother going through chemo. Marijuana - which is a felony in many states - helps her. It may be physiological, or it may be psychological, but it really doesn't make a dimes worth of difference because it helps her in some way..... and she says so. When you are almost dead, whatever works.... works. If nothing else it helps her eat. So what do I do? Do I not get her the marijuana because it is illegal and I might get into trouble? Or do I help my mommy, who gave to me more than I could EVER pay back? Well to me what I do is a no-brainer.

←

Sure, ask the doctor for a prescription for Marinol, which is a capsule form of THC, and it's legal.

People can always rationalize breaking the law one way or another, and that's fine; they just don't need to complain when they get sent to jail for it.

[sgallan]

Yeah - I don't think so. You don't strike me as the amoral type.

Indeed.... I'd probably just rob a bank or something.

[sgallan]

People can always rationalize breaking the law one way or another, and that's fine; they just don't need to complain when they get sent to jail for it.

Somethings are more important than laws. What would you do if they outlawed your faith?