Sealed Twice?

[Justlooking]

Originally posted by jiggypoo@Jan 6 2006, 01:23 PM

"Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

This is terribly mis-quoted in my opinion.  It simply states the relationship that should exists between husband and wife.  It doesnt imply restriction of number - as this union should be unique between the two individuals and NOT shared (such as a threesome) among the rest.

As for the feelings this person is having about a new mom, family ,etc - I totally relate.  My mother passed away from cancer shortly before my 11th birthday.  Dad remarried 11 months later (too soon I think).  That transition is bitter, difficult and greatly confusing.  Life is never the same.  She may feel "outside herself" for something - "outside herself" being that there is no more sense of home, security or direction.  It is hell to go through that when you're young.  I'll pray for her.

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Poligamy wasnt permitted in the early church for those who held offices in ministry.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Justlooking@Jan 6 2006, 07:03 PM

Ruth converted to the God of the Israelites YHVH.

But it doesn't dismiss the fact that she was still a Moabite.

M.

[Aristotle]

Our friend has an interesting explanation...his theory is that we will all be married one to another in the hereafter. ;-)

I understand, also, that a man is allowed to be with his second wife only with the first wife's permission.

[Justlooking]

Originally posted by Maureen+Jan 7 2006, 03:24 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Justlooking@Jan 6 2006, 07:03 PM

Ruth converted to the God of the Israelites YHVH.

But it doesn't dismiss the fact that she was still a Moabite.

M.

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Once she converted she was no longer under the curse.

[jiggypoo]

Originally posted by Justlooking+Jan 6 2006, 08:08 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-jiggypoo@Jan 6 2006, 01:23 PM

"Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

This is terribly mis-quoted in my opinion.  It simply states the relationship that should exists between husband and wife.  It doesnt imply restriction of number - as this union should be unique between the two individuals and NOT shared (such as a threesome) among the rest.

As for the feelings this person is having about a new mom, family ,etc - I totally relate.  My mother passed away from cancer shortly before my 11th birthday.  Dad remarried 11 months later (too soon I think).  That transition is bitter, difficult and greatly confusing.  Life is never the same.  She may feel "outside herself" for something - "outside herself" being that there is no more sense of home, security or direction.  It is hell to go through that when you're young.  I'll pray for her.

←

Poligamy wasnt permitted in the early church for those who held offices in ministry.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

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Now I can respect that, since it is specific "one wife". Thanks.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally posted by jiggypoo@Jan 6 2006, 12:23 PM

"Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

This is terribly mis-quoted in my opinion.  It simply states the relationship that should exists between husband and wife.  It doesnt imply restriction of number - as this union should be unique between the two individuals and NOT shared (such as a threesome) among the rest.

I have to disagree. I've stated elsewhere that polygamy was clearly something God tolerated, but it was not God's first or best choice for his creation. In this Matthew passage Jesus is actually quoting from Genesis 2. The model at that point was Adam and Eve. A simple reading is that a man and woman leave their parents and cling to each other--and become one flesh. This is God's ideal marriage union. 2 = 1. To say that Jesus did not restrict the arrangement to only two people is an argument from silence. Such contentions are generally weak. For example, are you really suggesting that because Jesus did not say, "And the two--and only two (no 3rd or 4th wives, etc.)..." well then, Jesus must have approved of polygamy!

Keep in mind too that by the New Testament era polygamy was rapidly dying out. It was not a pervasive issue that Jesus needed to address. We do not see examples of it being practiced in the New Testament church, nor throughout church history...until, of course, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young reinstated the arrangement.

[Jason]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Jan 10 2006, 09:18 PM

Keep in mind too that by the New Testament era polygamy was rapidly dying out.  It was not a pervasive issue that Jesus needed to address.  We do not see examples of it being practiced in the New Testament church, nor throughout church history...until, of course, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young reinstated the arrangement.

Actually, that honor belongs to Martin Luther. He gave his blessing to Philip of Hesse in taking a plural wife in 1540.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally posted by Jason@Jan 10 2006, 09:03 PM

Actually, that honor [reinstated polygamy] belongs to Martin Luther.  He gave his blessing to Philip of Hesse in taking a plural wife in 1540.

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Yeah, yeah...and Leif Erickson discovered the Americas before Christopher Columbus. So what? Leif didn't have the technology to repeat the trip. Mass migration did not occur. Likewise, this little tidbit about Martin Luther apparently didn't catch on.

We still celebrate Christopher Columbus Day, and Joseph Smith and Brigham Young still get notice for reintroducing polygamy to western society.

[CharlieDesRosiers]

Jason, don't they call that being a "nit-picker pickin' gnats"?

[Jason]

Originally posted by CharlieDesRosiers@Jan 11 2006, 07:06 AM

Jason, don't they call that being a "nit-picker pickin' gnats"?

←

Something like that.

[Franken]

Our friend has an interesting explanation...his theory is that we will all be married one to another in the hereafter. ;-)

I understand, also, that a man is allowed to be with his second wife only with the first wife's permission.

What first wife in her right mind would give permission though?

Yes, exactly, the question was whose wife she would be since she had been married to seven men over the course of her life. Jesus says we will be like the angels in heaven, in the bible none of the angels are married and they are all discribed as looking like human males.

Incest wasnt good in the old testament either. Lots daughter's childrens were cursed due to this ungodly union. Even tho Lot was a cousin of Abraham, these decendants were excluded from the promises of the children of Israel.

Gen 19:37 And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same [is] the father of the Moabites unto this day. 38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same [is] the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

Deu 2:9 And the LORD said unto me, Distress not the Moabites, neither contend with them in battle: for I will not give thee of their land [for] a possession; because I have given Ar unto the children of Lot [for] a possession.

Deu 2:19 And [when] thou comest nigh over against the children of Ammon, distress them not, nor meddle with them: for I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon [any] possession; because I have given it unto the children of Lot [for] a possession.

Deu 27:20 Cursed [be] he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Deu 27:22 Cursed [be] he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Deu 27:23 Cursed [be] he that lieth with his mother in law. And all the people shall say, Amen.

As for poligamy, that also wasn't of God, but of man.

Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Notice that its one flesh, not one hub and spoke system.

If we are all like angles and we're not married how does that work? I mean we're sealed to our spouse and family right? So how can we be sealed to our spouse and family and not be married?