Fiannan Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 PARIS -- A gang of more than 20 youths -- thought to be North African immigrants -- terrorized hundreds of train passengers in a rampage of violence, robbery and sexual assault on New Year's Day, French officials said yesterday. The five-hour-long criminal frenzy was "totally unacceptable," French President Jacques Chirac told reporters. "Those guilty will be found and punished, as they deserve." The gang of between 20 and 30 youths boarded the train, heading from Nice on the French Riviera to Lyon, in eastern France, early on Jan. 1, as it carried 600 passengers home from New Year's Eve partying overnight. Once inside, they went wild, forcing passengers to hand over mobile phones and wallets, and slashing seats and breaking windows. A 20-year-old woman cornered by several of the marauders was sexually molested. http://www.washtimes.com/world/20060104-115755-9546r.htm20 v. 600 French? What's up with this? Stand by and let a woman be gang raped, people threatened, mugged, etc. and...?I can assure you that if this happened on a Russian train these 20 degenerates would have been beatened by the Russian men onboard (Russia, unlike much of northern Europe still have real men), probably castrated and then the criminals would have the real nightmare begin when the local militia came and administered some "Pulp Fiction" retribution on them.I would also hope that in the USA several good 'ol boys with concealed weapons would have sent these guys to meet their maker real fast. So Europe is this how empires finally die out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Recently, we have looked into getting a concealed weapons permit. A friend of ours took a class from a retired police officer in regard to the rules and regulations and added responsibility of having a concealed weapons permit. For example, if a concealed weapons permit holder witnesses a crime in progress and does nothing to stop it, the permit holder faces criminal charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Originally posted by Fiannan@Jan 5 2006, 09:54 AM20 v. 600 French? What's up with this? Stand by and let a woman be gang raped, people threatened, mugged, etc. and...? I can assure you that if this happened on a Russian train these 20 degenerates would have been beatened by the Russian men onboard (Russia, unlike much of northern Europe still have real men), probably castrated and then the criminals would have the real nightmare begin when the local militia came and administered some "Pulp Fiction" retribution on them. I would also hope that in the USA several good 'ol boys with concealed weapons would have sent these guys to meet their maker real fast. So Europe is this how empires finally die out?←While I understand the "righteous indignation" against these barbaric youth, and to some extent, against the men on the train who remained passive, I rather prefer the approach my church would take.1. We've raised up a strong cadre of prison chaplains to offer hope, rehabilitation, and redemption to the criminals.2. Besides training religious leaders, there are now a significant number of reputable, licensed, trained counseling professionals who infuse their services with faith-filled healing, for the victims.3. We offer holiness teachings against the abuse of alcohol (that likely played a role in the activities of the abusers, and passivity of some of the passengers). Further, we have residential drug/alcohol recovery centers with success rates that are 4-6 times higher than purely medical rehabs.Vigilantism offers short-term feelings of accomplishment and machismo. However, the rather expensive, time-consuming work of healing, recovery, rehabilitation we prove more beneficial in the long run. Let is not tire of doing good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 But Chaplain, what would you have done on that bus at that time? Sure, your solution is a great idea AFTER THE FACT. But it is disturbing that people stood by and let those things happen. I know my husband would have kicked some A@# and not allow that to happen, and I'm pretty sure that most of the men I know here in the good ole USA would! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Originally posted by shanstress70@Jan 5 2006, 12:48 PMI know my husband would have kicked some A@# and not allow that to happen, and I'm pretty sure that most of the men I know here in the good ole USA would!←This is the exception to the rule. Don't be too hard on the French because Americans are well-known for their apathy when witnessing violent crimes...especially places like New York where citizens just want to mind their own business. Isn't New York notorious for that problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Originally posted by Fiannan@Jan 5 2006, 09:54 AMI would also hope that in the USA several good 'ol boys with concealed weapons would have sent these guys to meet their maker real fast. ←Agreed. America has such low rates of violent crime, that we are obviously handling things much better than Europe. This idea of "gangs" is so foreign to me...So Europe is this how empires finally die out?Europe is an empire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 The French consider themselves still an important world player and an empire. Seems like the colonized are coming to colonize the colonizer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Originally posted by Fiannan@Jan 5 2006, 01:12 PMThe French consider themselves still an important world player and an empire. Seems like the colonized are coming to colonize the colonizer.←France is not Europe...it is part of Europe.Anyway...France was an empire...are they still? I don't know enough about 20th Century French history...but my understanding is that Algeria (North Africa) is independent now? There are North Africans/Algerians in France, and maybe they are an oppressed minority, which explains the gang violence. But I don't see this problem as the beginning of the end for France...they have survived much worse enemies.Why are you so angry at France anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Originally posted by Fiannan@Jan 5 2006, 01:12 PMSeems like the colonized are coming to colonize the colonizer.←Sounds like you think this is more than just gang violence...doesn't that make it terrorism? If so, why are you talking like the French are getting what they deserve? I expect you didn't say that about America on 9/11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Originally posted by shanstress70@Jan 5 2006, 12:48 PMBut Chaplain, what would you have done on that bus at that time? Sure, your solution is a great idea AFTER THE FACT. But it is disturbing that people stood by and let those things happen.Well, yes--after the fact. But, more importantly, BEFORE the fact. How many of these incidents do NOT happen, because the criminal "found God" in jail, because the addict found deliverance in a faith-based rehab, and the 'young simmering child of an immigrant' found acceptance, purpose, and love in a house of worship?I know my husband would have kicked some A@# and not allow that to happen, and I'm pretty sure that most of the men I know here in the good ole USA would!←If I'm not mistaken, three American planes were hijacked on 9/11, and only Todd Beamer, and perhaps a few others on one of those planes stepped in.Quite frankly, in a hostage situation, blending in, not being noticed is the generally recommended course of action. If the 20 assailants were armed, and no one else was, then this really was a hostage situation.It's fun to wax Rambo-ish about such incidents. We can perhaps be naively sincere about it. However, I would never judge someone elses actions in such a situation--at least not without knowing the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 What do people think of this theory I do not believe Muslim clerics urge their followerers to go rape infidel women. I do not believe that Muslim parents teach their sons to go out and rape young infidel women either. I do believe, however, that if you move from a society that has certain behavioral expectations and now find yourself living in Sodom and EU then you will communicate your revulsion of western lifestyles from day one to your kids. Most Muslims live in the west because of better economic opportunity or to escape a country that they might have been on the wrong side of the political fence. Some move to escape Islam, but not most. Now add to this a religion that has a great deal of arrogance (we are the best, if you are Christian you are kinda like a stepbrother that you have to tolerate, but can still put in his place, or if you have no religion, or are pagan, you are dust under the believer's feet) then imagine the signals these young people get at home at with their peers. First, you are the chosen people. Second, there's even infidel leftists that teach that your people have been abused by the big, bad white (Christian and Jew) man. Third, due to language barriers you may have a dad trained as a doctor but works at a pay toilet collecting money. Forth, you see women walking around with anti-traditional attitues and dress and men who have been feminized by Euro culture. Well, is this not a recipe for the kinds of trouble we are seeing? One solution of course (which worked in times past) was that very small numbers of immigrants who might come into Europe generally converted to Christianity and melted into the population -- of course, that's when Europeans worshipped God rther than Marx and money (I know it sounds contradictory but anyone with any experience with Euros know what I am talking about). Of course the Euros could convert to Islam (as many are) but I doubt most will. So we will have two societies in one nation (the pattern exists in more countries than France) for the forseeable future. Any bets on how it will turn out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Originally posted by prisonchaplain+Jan 5 2006, 03:51 PM--><!--QuoteBegin-shanstress70@Jan 5 2006, 12:48 PMBut Chaplain, what would you have done on that bus at that time? Sure, your solution is a great idea AFTER THE FACT. But it is disturbing that people stood by and let those things happen.Well, yes--after the fact. But, more importantly, BEFORE the fact. How many of these incidents do NOT happen, because the criminal "found God" in jail, because the addict found deliverance in a faith-based rehab, and the 'young simmering child of an immigrant' found acceptance, purpose, and love in a house of worship?I know my husband would have kicked some A@# and not allow that to happen, and I'm pretty sure that most of the men I know here in the good ole USA would!←If I'm not mistaken, three American planes were hijacked on 9/11, and only Todd Beamer, and perhaps a few others on one of those planes stepped in.Quite frankly, in a hostage situation, blending in, not being noticed is the generally recommended course of action. If the 20 assailants were armed, and no one else was, then this really was a hostage situation.It's fun to wax Rambo-ish about such incidents. We can perhaps be naively sincere about it. However, I would never judge someone elses actions in such a situation--at least not without knowing the details.←OK, if they had guns and my husband didn't, he would probaby wish for the best and hang tight. But if they did not, then yes, my husband would have kicked their butts. Sorry if it sounds rambo-ish, but he would have. My husband is a big man, and they are skinny little girly french 'men'! And he wouldn't have to do it by itself... in the US, I really do think that it would have been a different story... if they didn't have guns. And I don't think the article mentioned that they were armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Taoist Saint states:But I don't see this problem as the beginning of the end for France...they have survived much worse enemies.No they have not. After the plague it took only a short time for them to establish positive population growth and not only replace themselves, but grow again -- the same pattern after wars (you know, the ones France lost in -- except for the civil war, they won that one). They also kept their religious faith (more nominally than most, but still were not self-indulgent humansits).Today the French aren't even replacing themselves. The same pattern holds true for every other nation in Europe (except Muslim Albania). I personally do not consider the immigrants as enemies, they are opportunists just as the Europeans who came to America were -- after the disease epidemics basically knocked out the numerical superiority of various tribes, Europens could just move in. Who is to blame them for taking jobs that would have been taken by all the French, Swedish, British, etc. babies that wound up in buckets destined for incineration rather than allowed to be born and grow up? When Muslim scholars from the Islamic Republic of France and others in the next century write about the demographic switch that took place they will note that Europe decided that materialism and self-gratification were the ultimate death of the native populations. West Europeans have also been pansified -- they are fat sheep that cannot deal with the problems associated with the economic stagnation in immigrant areas. I saw pictures of a huge anti-globalization demonstration in Denmark a few years back and as the protesters destroyed the local businesses the Danish cops looked like bewildered substitute teachers as the classes laughed at them and refused to obey. I immediatly wondered what LA. NY or Moscow cops would have done -- well, no wonder, they would have ended the protests real quick. Euros just aren't used to the new realities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Shanstress70 writes:My husband is a big man, and they are skinny little girly french 'men'! Not quite. First, the attackers were from norht Africa. One of my sons hangs with some Iranian and Iraqi (Kurd and Caldian Christian) kids. They are not small people nor are most people from the Middle East! The French men might be small (last year a thousand Arab kids went on a rampage in Paris and beat up/robbed thousands of high school kids who were protesting for school reform and many Arab youth joked about the French kids being small, weak and not knowing how to fight) but as I said Arabs aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 He'd still take 'em... and win!( Although DH hates message boards, you know I have to show him this topic to stroke his ego a bit!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Actually, you might be right Shanstress70. Chances are they might respect a MAN who stood up to them and showed courage. Weakness and cowardness is something that Middle Eastern culture looks down on the most. A few times in Europe I have been in subways with gang-looking youth around and instead of looking scared I chose to walk a straight line and show no fear even if it meant they might have to move slightly for me to get by and get to my point of destination. I've always noticed these young men move and get a respectful attitude -- usually nodding and saying hello. I would never provoke someone but there's been a few times when with a friend in some less-than-desirable sections of Moscow's Metro at night we purposely open doors (past the groupings of homeless or drunks) by kicking the doors open and showing a bit of irritation. Never been bothered there. Another time a female tourist in my group was being shown a bit too much attention from a Russian Skinhead but by just not going sheepish, and joking with the guy, he shook my hand and patted me on the back and we both parted as he yelled Russia and raised his fist (smiling) and I said "right on!" and diffused what could have been nasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 I'm not really sure what your point is. You appear to be saying that Europeans deserve to be extinct because they are physically weak, and their population might be declining? Or are they morally weak? Just curious...which would you prefer...a Liberal EU or an Islamic Fundamentalist Europe? Ok, I am REALLY done talking politics (or is this prophecy?)...I quit and agree to disagree with your perception or Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted January 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Just curious...which would you prefer...a Liberal EU or an Islamic Fundamentalist Europe?Wow, if given that kind of choice I would have to place it in the context of if I were a sperm doner and had a choice of having my donation either going to a lesbian couple who were atheistic, drank too much, belonged to a left-wing party and were materialistic or to a traditional (not radical) Islamic couple. I would choose my seed to live Islamic -- at least then they would honor God and have the values of the Bible (at lest the Old Testament).In that way I guess I have little if any respect for modern-day humanistic/materialistic European culture. My preference would be that Eastern European Christians would suddenly have a boom in their birthrate and overrun and replace western Europeans. However that is probably not going to happen. I would hope that there are enough Euros to reject so-called modeern culture and return to traditional values, increase their birthrate and replace the tired old left wingers. For that to happen Euros need to recognize the problems that confront them but most live in a state of denial (well, their government and media at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justlooking Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 C'est la vie, en paris! France is the new hot bed for riots. The country was just trashed a few months ago when some muslim kids were killed by cops. Sadly, if they French dont get a handle of on this, things can get worse. These things tend to mushroom unless nipped in the bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 We have had the exact same problem here for decades. The LA riots? Somehow our nation is still surviving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Jan 6 2006, 11:43 AMWe have had the exact same problem here for decades. The LA riots? Somehow our nation is still surviving.←Tao Saint, if it's any consolation, you're right. We're still mad because the French would back us in Iraq. As a prize for garnering at least one supporter, have some Liberty fries on me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Originally posted by prisonchaplain+Jan 6 2006, 02:48 PM--><!--QuoteBegin-Taoist_Saint@Jan 6 2006, 11:43 AMWe have had the exact same problem here for decades. The LA riots? Somehow our nation is still surviving.←Tao Saint, if it's any consolation, you're right. We're still mad because the French would back us in Iraq. I knew it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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