The Elders of the Church to Save the Constitution?

[Guest mormonmusic]

I hope the inference here isn't that the sum and essence of the Constitution is capitalism.

I happen to like capitalism. But IMHO it cheapens the Constitution to reduce it to a guarantee of a particular economic system.

I'm glad you used the term "I hope" because one thing I've grown weary of is the misinferences about motives when I've participated in discussion forums in general (not just this one). To the point I just ignore it half the time.

So, because you have left your assumption open to clarification, I will respond to it.

For me, I posed what I thought was an interesting question given the orientation of the Savior toward the poor. "If ye care not for the poor and needy, ye are not my disciple" as it says in D&C near Section 50. Pretty strong commitment to helping that element of society whose needs socialists would like to support. There is also a strong orientation toward wealth redistribution by asking people to give of their substance to help those in need. As a people, we are asked to give up our wealth regularly to help further the mission of Heavenly Father, with teh possibility it will be more than just the regular tithing and fast offering.

On the other hand, our religion tends to produce right wingers if my experience with members is correct in both Canada and the United States. They tend to be capitalists and less socialist. One can only speculate why this is so, and may be the result of the way many people interpret our values as a religion when they make political decisions.

So, how will this tension be resolved? For me that is an interesting question which has nothing to do with trying to claim the constitution guarantees a particular system of government. I'm sincerely interested in seeing how the needs of the poor and needy are met when the time comes we are subject to a divine government.

I have a hunch that wealth redistribution will NOT be legislated, however, the influence of the Savior to change hearts and help people CHOOSE to be charitable will be significant. As a result, there will be enough wealth shared willingly to help the poor, without forcing everyone to do so. And it will be efficient, just as our welfare system is efficient -- with it being executed on a voluntary basis rather than paying people do administer it.

Also, this approach of voluntarily sharing wealth is consistent with the exercise of the Priesthood, which shoots for leading a kingdom to do good "without compulsory means".

With all His divine intelligence, I think we'll see, finally, the most perfect system of government there is when we have a Theocracy on earth led by Christ-- one that combines the motivational and standard of living effects of capitalism, while meeting the aims of socialism in sharing wealth with those who truly need it. And it will all be voluntary and highly efficient.

Edited May 19, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Guest mormonmusic]

Yes!!!!

I have no idea what you mean by this. The question was not a yes or no question.

[Wingnut]

Interesting that it was announced a few months ago that when the new Church Handbook of Instructions is released later this year, that it will include expansion on a new 4th mission of the Church, to add to proclaiming the Gospel, redeeming the dead, and perfecting the Saints. The new 4th part is caring for the poor and needy.

I have no idea what you mean by this. The question was not a yes or no question.

That was his point. The answer to the question was not either part A or part B, but some of both.

[Hemidakota]

Will He subscribe to a socialist or capitalist philosophy, or some other philosophy? Will wealth redistribution, if it exists, be compulsory or voluntary?

What wealth? When there is no monetary system to deal with?

I need to switch parties now - I need to enlist in the theocratic party.

[Guest mormonmusic]

What wealth? When there is no monetary system to deal with?

I need to switch parties now - I need to enlist in the theocratic party.

There will always be people with needs of some kind. Wealth is whatever resources are available to meet those needs.

[rameumptom]

The prophecy of the Constitution hanging by a thread IS found in the unsubstantiated White Horse Prophecy, but is also found in other quotes by Joseph Smith and others. Hence, the White Horse Prophecy is not accepted by the Church as necessarily valid, but many, including Pres Benson accepted the thread prophecy.

My view of it is based upon my reading of the Book of Mormon, and how its history parallels our own. I think what it means is that wicked people will seek to destroy the Constitution, or replace it with a king/ruler. When freedoms are taken away, and wickedness and Gadianton robbers are found throughout the halls of our nation's capitol, we'll see the government collapse.

It will collapse for many reasons: division, economic collapse, over reaching in the world, etc. At that time, many groups will seek to form new governments in various areas of the USA. It will be divided into tribes, as occurred in 3 Nephi. The saints will gather in certain areas, just as in 3 Nephi, for protection. They will resurrect the Constitution and its original intent in their strongholds, which will eventually include Utah and Missouri. Others who also share righteous desires and a love for the Constitution will join us. While tribes that are based on socialism or other concepts will collapse and end in mob violence and destruction; "those who dwell among the wicked who will not lift their sword to fight, must needs flee to Zion for safety" (D&C 45). Eventually, all of the Americas will become Zion, as opposed to Babylon, which will be in the Old World.

[Hemidakota]

Or could be viewed by personal revelations.