Guest Starsky Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Jan 18 2004, 10:11 AM Peace,Hey good idea----maybe you can finally explain to church members how the story of Adam and Eve proves there was no organic evolution. Have you prayed about this? Do you really know anything at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Peace---as a matter of fact I have. The answer was loud and clear. It was "use the mental faculties I have given you and you will discover the truth." I did, and have discovered that JS was a fraud, that the BoM is fiction inspite of all the good things that are taught in the Mormon church, it is really no different than a miriad of other religions---all with their good and bad points, but inventions of some charismatic leader of some sort. That is what the Spirit testifies to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antishock82003 Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by Peace+Jan 18 2004, 12:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Jan 18 2004, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--antishock82003@Jan 18 2004, 11:51 AM I have a story for you, and it's True. Two TBM people payed tithing their entire lives. They lived in poverty. Their businesses failed repeatedly. 3 of their 4 children fell away from the Church, and the fourth one who is Faithful broke his back and is paralyzed for life. One was finally felled at age 63 of a heart attack after breaking her leg. The other experienced four strokes in one year, and is mentally incapacitated and living in a trailor park. They paid their tithing. The former worked till the day she died. The latter would be working, but is now dependent on his social security check of $900/mo. to get by. They paid their tithing. Have you thought to ask the Lord why? Have you asked those people what they think? Can you judge their hearts? Do you have a clue at all about what this life is for? Look, the inuendo of the first post was that Paying Tithing ='s Blessings. My not so subtle counter to that was Paying Tithing ='s Nothing. Sometimes good things happen to good people...and bad people...and bad things happen to good people...and bad people. That's the absurdity of Life. To ascribe some sort of equation that paying money to the Divine's Church will result in Good Things is absurd. It makes no difference...except for the Church. The Church benefits. It can build really expensive conference centers. It can pay it's coporate officers six figure incomes. Tithing is income. Nothing more. Nothing less. The only "spiritual blessings" any member gets out of paying tithing are the perceived blessings in his head. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryFields Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Jan 19 2004, 12:42 PM Peace---as a matter of fact I have. The answer was loud and clear. It was "use the mental faculties I have given you and you will discover the truth." I did, and have discovered that JS was a fraud, that the BoM is fiction inspite of all the good things that are taught in the Mormon church, it is really no different than a miriad of other religions---all with their good and bad points, but inventions of some charismatic leader of some sort. That is what the Spirit testifies to me. Cal,I know this was meant for Peace, but this is a message is for all of the members of this board.This is a LDS message board. What gives you the right to come here and say these things about our church? What your posts says is that JS was not a prophet and the Book Of Mormon isn't true. Just for "good measure" you add that the "Spirit" testifies this to you???Cal ~ WHAT ARE YOUR INTENTIONS HERE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Jan 19 2004, 11:42 AM Peace---as a matter of fact I have. The answer was loud and clear. It was "use the mental faculties I have given you and you will discover the truth." I did, and have discovered that JS was a fraud, that the BoM is fiction inspite of all the good things that are taught in the Mormon church, it is really no different than a miriad of other religions---all with their good and bad points, but inventions of some charismatic leader of some sort. That is what the Spirit testifies to me. Did your answer come with illumination, or contention and anger? Were you filled with love and compassion and understanding for JS and his life or hate and hostility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 I'm going to side with Joe and AS here. Another way to look at this situation is as follows: 1) A couple paid their tithing and because of it a deer is dead and a man's car is in need of repair which in turn will raise his car insurance premiums. 2) A couple did not pay their tithing and because of it a deer did not die and the man with the car has no car repair and insurance problems to deal with. Are you really sure that this couple's tithing action and the dead deer are related? M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Mar Kimball Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Utah has one of the highest bankruptcy rates in the nation. Scoreboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 It is a matter of not having any wisdom...or maybe a better word would be judgment. Buying into the TV adds and social peer pressure...instead of being 'real'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Jan 19 2004, 12:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Strawberry Fields @ Jan 19 2004, 12:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Jan 19 2004, 12:42 PM Peace---as a matter of fact I have. The answer was loud and clear. It was "use the mental faculties I have given you and you will discover the truth." I did, and have discovered that JS was a fraud, that the BoM is fiction inspite of all the good things that are taught in the Mormon church, it is really no different than a miriad of other religions---all with their good and bad points, but inventions of some charismatic leader of some sort. That is what the Spirit testifies to me. Cal,I know this was meant for Peace, but this is a message is for all of the members of this board.This is a LDS message board. What gives you the right to come here and say these things about our church? What your posts says is that JS was not a prophet and the Book Of Mormon isn't true. Just for "good measure" you add that the "Spirit" testifies this to you???Cal ~ WHAT ARE YOUR INTENTIONS HERE? What gives me the right? Well, let's see. If I remember right this site is open to buddists, atheists, mormons, baptists etc. Spencer has affirmed that a number of times. So I guess I DO have the right to be here AND say what I believe.I notice that there are several others on this board that don't believe JS was what he claimed to be. I don't see you getting all worked up about them. Perhaps you just don't like the fact that the Spirit would testify anything to me. Do you have a monopoly on what the Spirit can and can't say?By the way, you seem to disbelieve what the Spirit has told me. Are you suggesting that I go against what the Spirit has told me, and just follow what you believe? Wouldn't that be denying the Spirit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lt Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Helen....Im not sure what that has to do with the topic..Please fill me in? Actually I can give another example of tithing....... No matter how hard it got or all the bad stuff that happened....everything in our house hold ends up on a spiritual high afterwards....Tithing has abled us to never hunger...always find a job and always pay our bills. I would rather look at it that way that to say it just all worked out...Because personally after walking through my shoes I know that god was there so...many times because of it and my faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Laurel--Just curious, would you pay your tithing if there were no immediate payoff? OR would you pay it if there were no reward at all, just the joy that comes from giving to a worthy cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest estump Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Cal...I don't expect anything in return, spiritual of physical if I pay my tithing. I couldn't pay my tithing the whole time I was caring for my terminally ill child. I felt no guilt about it, because we had to exhaust all of our money into her health care. I don't expect anything by way of an immediate reward from paying tithing. To me it's all about the intent behind it. It's supposed to be an act of revering, reverancing and obeying God. It's not supposed to be done to keep or gain TR or gain status w/ the Lord. If it's done w/ the intent of receiving spiritual rewards or physical, a person might as well keep their money and do something else w/ it. Their heart isn't in the right place, IMHO. I've never been taught to expect anything in return for paying tithing. I do agree w/ Joe, it's all about attitude and perception. Nothing more or less....I am just happy other's have good experiences w/ it, when I personally struggle w/ the issue.IMHO opinion I don't think God is inconsistant w/ people...I rather think we are more Inconsistant w/ Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFDaw Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 More times than not we've paid our tithing with the idea that we will NOT be rewarded. It's not a matter of rewards for the most part, like "You do this...I'll give you more money" Instead, it's a commandment, simple as that. Do it or not, maybe you'll be blessed, maybe you won't. It's all a matter of faith to the tithing payer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Originally posted by AFDaw@Jan 23 2004, 05:52 PM More times than not we've paid our tithing with the idea that we will NOT be rewarded. It's not a matter of rewards for the most part, like "You do this...I'll give you more money" Instead, it's a commandment, simple as that. Do it or not, maybe you'll be blessed, maybe you won't. It's all a matter of faith to the tithing payer. I think you are right AFDaw. It is a matter of being obedient....John 14: 15 15 If ye alove me, keep my ccommandments.John 14: 23 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.John 15: 10 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my blove; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.D&C 42: 29 29 If thou lovest me thou shalt serve me and keep all my commandments.D&C 95: 12 12 If you keep not my commandments, the love of the Father shall not continue with you, therefore you shall walk in darkness.Just a few reasons for obeying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antishock82003 Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Here's an interesting post from RFM regarding tithing. I'm wondering what a normal TBM response to this would be...seriously. Anyone?My next door neighbor (also my VTeacher) had the tow trucks over today and they towed away his suburban. They are a family of six and now have Zero cars!He was 15 days late on his payment. He has gone through financial hard times and has been struggling financially. While he is hardcore TBM I still like him and he is a good person.My first impulse was to pull out my checkbook and make his car payment for him, but then realized that he DID have the money but chose to pay his tithing instead! How can I help him, when he won't help himself? His marriage is perpetually on the rocks because of the stress of their finances. He pays tithing faithfully and has always paid.Having grown up in relative poverty myself I give up a lot in the here and now to have savings and to remove all my debts. I don't want to be dependant on anybody else, and especially any conditional church.Despite his whole world falling apart, risking his mental health, his marriage, his very happiness he pays money to an organization that would throw him away if it meant a bad image for the church.I cannot express how at times like this that I *edit negative complaining. I usually don't criticize tithing payers because it is their money and their free will, but when it is done blindly, without reason and at the harm of others then I wonder how much is free will and how much is *edit hyperbole.*edit ranting and ravingI feel better now.Tyler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bat Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 I remember reading a post by that dude that cusses a lot on RFM recently where he said that his parents were hitting him up for money, and he was reluctant to help them out because they *HAD* enough money, but they decided to pay their tithing and ask their son for money instead. It made me feel sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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