Let's Talk Repentence

[Guest sugarbay]

The Savior said we are required to forgive everyone, that he will forgive whom he will forgive. Now, my question is, if we repent, truly ask for forgiveness in the way that we should, personally if possible, and then return to the very same activity that we needed to repent of, does that mean that we are repentent? Or is it a ruse to gain the sympathy of others?

I remember one of the most important steps of repentence AFTER confessing and making every possible restitution, is to turn from that sin and do it no more. If you return to that sin, are you back at the starting point? Or just at the step where you are supposed to do it no more?

These pressing and persistent questions...hmmm.

If it smells like doo-doo it is probably doo-doo. Let us forever be watching where we step. B)

[Aristotle]

To repent means to change. If we claim we are repentent, but do not change, then we have not repented. I am more concerned with those whom we forgive who continue on with the same offensive behaviors. It would seem that they are excused for a time, but never fully acknowledge how their behaviors affect others, so they return to the same offensive, self-defeating behaviors which keep them stuck. Not only do they remain stuck, but they affect the progress of those whom they offend, especially if the ones whom they offend go inactive. We may forgive those whom have offended us, but if the offense is of a very serious nature, it will not be forgotten...and for our own protection, it is best unforgotten.

[Laureltree]

To repent means to change. If we claim we are repentent, but do not change, then we have not repented. I am more concerned with those whom we forgive who continue on with the same offensive behaviors.

My thoughts are this Repentence ( True Repentence) deals with a (Mighty) change of heart, and if those individuals involved continue to there act after they have promised to the lord, themselves, and there bishop not to, it is worse off than if they had not repented at all.

[Fiannan]

I am not sure about this. Let's say someone commits fornication when they are 18, repent, get married, stay away from compromising situations, then their husband dies when she is 55. In a state of lonliness a guy she is good friends with and her have sex. Can you say she is an unrepentant individual because she has fornicated twice (and she had a lustful heart in reality for 3 decades)?

I have heard people say that this is the case but I really don't agree. Even our earthly court of laws say you should be tried and convicted for a crime once -- not serve your time (for example bank robbery) but then swipe an apple from the neighbor's yard, get convicted of petty theft, and then have to serve your time over from the robbery and the apple incident.

[Aristotle]

I am not sure about this. Let's say someone commits fornication when they are 18, repent, get married, stay away from compromising situations, then their husband dies when she is 55. In a state of lonliness a guy she is good friends with and her have sex. Can you say she is an unrepentant individual because she has fornicated twice (and she had a lustful heart in reality for 3 decades)?

I have heard people say that this is the case but I really don't agree. Even our earthly court of laws say you should be tried and convicted for a crime once -- not serve your time (for example bank robbery) but then swipe an apple from the neighbor's yard, get convicted of petty theft, and then have to serve your time over from the robbery and the apple incident.

I really think one should let the spirit be their guide in these matters...to follow your conscience.

[prisonchaplain]

The Savior said we are required to forgive everyone, that he will forgive whom he will forgive. Now, my question is, if we repent, truly ask for forgiveness in the way that we should, personally if possible, and then return to the very same activity that we needed to repent of, does that mean that we are repentent? Or is it a ruse to gain the sympathy of others?

I knew a fellow who, as a Christian, committed the same sin every day for 15 years. And, every night he repented, in sincerity--asking God to grant him the strength to overcome his addiction. After 15 years God set him free. Today, he's a leader in his church--a man with a powerful testimony of God's incredible patience and mercy. The man loves God deeply, because he knows that God has deeply forgiven him.

To repent means to change. If we claim we are repentent, but do not change, then we have not repented. I am more concerned with those whom we forgive who continue on with the same offensive behaviors. It would seem that they are excused for a time, but never fully acknowledge how their behaviors affect others, so they return to the same offensive, self-defeating behaviors which keep them stuck. Not only do they remain stuck, but they affect the progress of those whom they offend, especially if the ones whom they offend go inactive. We may forgive those whom have offended us, but if the offense is of a very serious nature, it will not be forgotten...and for our own protection, it is best unforgotten.

Forgiveness and trust are two different matters. For a most painful example, if a spouse cheats, the innocent one must eventually forgive. However, s/he also may seek a divorce. Trust is broken. Reconciliation is beautiful, but not always possible in such cases.

I am not sure about this. Let's say someone commits fornication when they are 18, repent, get married, stay away from compromising situations, then their husband dies when she is 55. In a state of lonliness a guy she is good friends with and her have sex. Can you say she is an unrepentant individual because she has fornicated twice (and she had a lustful heart in reality for 3 decades)?

I'd say she needs to repent. Can she be forgiven? Of course. Remember that 70X7 line Jesus came up with?

[Aristotle]

Forgiveness and trust are two different matters. For a most painful example, if a spouse cheats, the innocent one must eventually forgive. However, s/he also may seek a divorce. Trust is broken. Reconciliation is beautiful, but not always possible in such cases.

Yes, they are two separate and completely different issues, although we are encouraged in our Church to "forgive and forget". If a serious problem arises, there will be little forgetfulness. I think this would fall under the category of becoming "wise as serpents".

[Laureltree]

I knew a fellow who, as a Christian, committed the same sin every day for 15 years. And, every night he repented, in sincerity--asking God to grant him the strength to overcome his addiction. After 15 years God set him free. Today, he's a leader in his church--a man with a powerful testimony of God's incredible patience and mercy. The man loves God deeply, because he knows that God has deeply forgiven him.

But do you believe he was forgiven after each episode, or did it took place when he no longer did the act?

Heavenly father is very very specific on repentance & foriveness....including when they keep returning to the act, I truly dont believe there repentance is real, until they quit the act and gain a mighty change of heart and do not committ what ever acts they were doing again.

D & C 42: 24-26

(24 Thou shalt not commit adultery; and he that committeth adultery, and repenteth not, shall be cast out.

25 But he that has committed adultery and repents with all his heart, and forsaketh it, and doeth it no more, thou shalt forgive;

26 But if he doeth it again, he shall not be forgiven, but shall be cast out.)

Just my understanding

[prisonchaplain]

But do you believe he was forgiven after each episode, or did it took place when he no longer did the act?

Heavenly father is very very specific on repentance & foriveness....including when they keep returning to the act, I truly dont believe there repentance is real, until they quit the act and gain a mighty change of heart and do not committ what ever acts they were doing again.

1. In this case, I believe he was forgiven each time. My sense is that it was an addiction of some type. He really wanted to quit. He was torn up with each failure. But, he did not give up on God, and God did not give up on him.

2. The case in which forgiveness was not extended by the church involved blatant disobedience. In 1 Corinthians 5 there was a man having an affair with his stepmother. The Church thought he demonstrated God's grace and mercy. Paul said, NO! He was unrepentent. He was not attempting to break away from the immoral relationship. Pauls said they were to put him OUT of the church--turn him over to Satan. Then, perhaps he would come to his senses, and yet be forgiven. In 2 Corinthians there is a passage where Paul tells the church that the repentent brother has been punished enough. Forgive him, and stop rehashing it! While we cannot be certain, many scholars believe this is the same one. If so, what a tremendous story of God's mercy and forgiveness--AFTER true repentence.

3. If someone has molested someone, or cheated, forgiveness does not mean complete trust or restoration. In the case of molestation, "forgetting the sin" does not mean placing a stumbling block (temptation) before the weak brother/sister. Also, when marriage vows are breaking, the "one flesh" relationship has been ripped apart, and an interloper has been thrown into the equation. The result is so tramautic, that though Jesus says, "God hates divorce," this is the one case (other than abandonment) where divorce is permitted. Again "forgetting the sin" does not always mean status quo ante (returning to how it was before).

[Aristotle]

In my opinion, "forgetting the sin" is more apt to pertain to clergy. How can a clergyman possibly remember all of the sins of his congregation?

[Guest Syble]

Enduring is true repentence. Receiving charity which endureth all things (to the end) is true repentence. Anything less is just self-righteousness which does not endure.

[Guest Crazy Horse]

To repent means to change. If we claim we are repentent, but do not change, then we have not repented. I am more concerned with those whom we forgive who continue on with the same offensive behaviors. It would seem that they are excused for a time, but never fully acknowledge how their behaviors affect others, so they return to the same offensive, self-defeating behaviors which keep them stuck. Not only do they remain stuck, but they affect the progress of those whom they offend, especially if the ones whom they offend go inactive. We may forgive those whom have offended us, but if the offense is of a very serious nature, it will not be forgotten...and for our own protection, it is best unforgotten.

Adding my amen here. B)

<div class='quotemain'>

To repent means to change. If we claim we are repentent, but do not change, then we have not repented. I am more concerned with those whom we forgive who continue on with the same offensive behaviors. It would seem that they are excused for a time, but never fully acknowledge how their behaviors affect others, so they return to the same offensive, self-defeating behaviors which keep them stuck. Not only do they remain stuck, but they affect the progress of those whom they offend, especially if the ones whom they offend go inactive. We may forgive those whom have offended us, but if the offense is of a very serious nature, it will not be forgotten...and for our own protection, it is best unforgotten.

Adding my amen here. B)

P.S. Forgetting does not mean putting your head back into the lion's mouth. Just a thought.... B)

<div class='quotemain'>

To repent means to change. If we claim we are repentent, but do not change, then we have not repented. I am more concerned with those whom we forgive who continue on with the same offensive behaviors. It would seem that they are excused for a time, but never fully acknowledge how their behaviors affect others, so they return to the same offensive, self-defeating behaviors which keep them stuck. Not only do they remain stuck, but they affect the progress of those whom they offend, especially if the ones whom they offend go inactive. We may forgive those whom have offended us, but if the offense is of a very serious nature, it will not be forgotten...and for our own protection, it is best unforgotten.

Adding my amen here. B)

<div class='quotemain'>

To repent means to change. If we claim we are repentent, but do not change, then we have not repented. I am more concerned with those whom we forgive who continue on with the same offensive behaviors. It would seem that they are excused for a time, but never fully acknowledge how their behaviors affect others, so they return to the same offensive, self-defeating behaviors which keep them stuck. Not only do they remain stuck, but they affect the progress of those whom they offend, especially if the ones whom they offend go inactive. We may forgive those whom have offended us, but if the offense is of a very serious nature, it will not be forgotten...and for our own protection, it is best unforgotten.

Adding my amen here. B)

P.S. Forgetting does not mean putting your head back into the lion's mouth. Just a thought.... let's not dismiss the predator so out-of-hand either. And predator is the correct term.B)

[Guest MrsS]

I knew a fellow who, as a Christian, committed the same sin every day for 15 years. And, every night he repented, in sincerity--asking God to grant him the strength to overcome his addiction. After 15 years God set him free. Today, he's a leader in his church--a man with a powerful testimony of God's incredible patience and mercy. The man loves God deeply, because he knows that God has deeply forgiven him.

I don't believe that it was God who set him free ~ he finally really repented, and God forgave him. He set himself free when he totally quit the sin, and he remained free because of Gods love and blessings and Christ's Atonement.

# D&C 58: 42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more. Because Heavenly Father "remember them no more", we must remember them no more.

To repent means to change. If we claim we are repentent, but do not change, then we have not repented. I am more concerned with those whom we forgive who continue on with the same offensive behaviors. It would seem that they are excused for a time, but never fully acknowledge how their behaviors affect others, so they return to the same offensive, self-defeating behaviors which keep them stuck. Not only do they remain stuck, but they affect the progress of those whom they offend, especially if the ones whom they offend go inactive. We may forgive those whom have offended us, but if the offense is of a very serious nature, it will not be forgotten...and for our own protection, it is best unforgotten.

# D&C 64: 10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.

# D&C 98: 40 And so on unto the second and third time; and as oft as thine enemy repenteth of the trespass wherewith he has trespassed against thee, thou shalt forgive him, until seventy times seven.

Fiannan said: I am not sure about this. Let's say someone commits fornication when they are 18, repent, get married, stay away from compromising situations, then their husband dies when she is 55. In a state of lonliness a guy she is good friends with and her have sex. Can you say she is an unrepentant individual because she has fornicated twice (and she had a lustful heart in reality for 3 decades)?

prisonchaplain said: Forgiveness and trust are two different matters. For a most painful example, if a spouse cheats, the innocent one must eventually forgive. However, s/he also may seek a divorce. Trust is broken. Reconciliation is beautiful, but not always possible in such cases.

prisonchaplain said: Remember that 70X7 line Jesus came up with?

It is also in the Doctrine and Covenents: D&C 98: 40 And so on unto the second and third time; and as oft as thine enemy repenteth of the trespass wherewith he has trespassed against thee, thou shalt forgive him, until seventy times seven.

[Ray]

To "repent" actually means to "turn away" from something, and if we keep doing something that we really should not do, then we still need to repent from that until we actually do it no more.

And personally, when I truly repent from doing something I know I should not do, I usually get better at repenting from it forever before I actually have no more desire to do it.

And btw, although our Lord has told us that we should forgive everyone, in what I believe is a condition of our forgiveness, our Lord has the right (authority and power) to either forgive or condemn anyone who truly does not repent.

[Guest MrsS]

I got this by email a while back ~ thought it was appropriate.

One rainy afternoon a father was driving along one of the main streets of town, taking those extra precautions necessary when the roads are wet and slick.

Suddenly, his son Matthew spoke up from his relaxed position in the front seat: "Dad, I'm thinking of something."

This announcement usually meant he had been pondering some fact for a while, and was now ready to expound all that his seven-year-old mind had discovered.

"What are you thinking?" Dad asked.

"The rain," he began, "is like sin, and the windshield wipers are like God wiping our sins away."

"That's really good, Matthew. And do you notice how the rain keeps on coming? What does that tell you?"

Matthew didn't hesitate one moment with his answer: "We keep on sinning, and God just keeps on forgiving us."

Remember this whenever you turn your wipers on!

[Ray]

One rainy afternoon a father was driving along one of the main streets of town, taking those extra precautions necessary when the roads are wet and slick.

Suddenly, his son Matthew spoke up from his relaxed position in the front seat: "Dad, I'm thinking of something."

This announcement usually meant he had been pondering some fact for a while, and was now ready to expound all that his seven-year-old mind had discovered.

"What are you thinking?" Dad asked.

"The rain," he began, "is like sin, and the windshield wipers are like God wiping our sins away."

"That's really good, Matthew. And do you notice how the rain keeps on coming? What does that tell you?"

Matthew didn't hesitate one moment with his answer: "We keep on sinning, and God just keeps on forgiving us."

Okay, pretend I’m the Dad in this story and am speaking to the child:

Okay, son, so the rain represents sin... and the wipers represent forgiveness... but where does repentance fit in?

What do you think Matthew would say now?

And btw, I live in the great Northwest, where it rains quite a bit.

[Guest MrsS]

Okay, pretend I’m the Dad in this story and am speaking to the child:

Okay, son, so the rain represents sin... and the wipers represent forgiveness... but where does repentance fit in?

What do you think Matthew would say now?

And btw, I live in the great Northwest, where it rains quite a bit.

The motor on the windshield wipers is the repentence. If there is no repentence, aka w.w.motor, there is no forgivness.

[Ray]

Okay, lets’ see now:

The rain represents sins, committed by people.

The wipers represent forgiveness, granted by God.

And the motor for the windshield wipers represents Repentance, which is God is responsible for???

That would make God responsible for our Repentance, wouldn’t it, son?

Is that really what you’re trying to tell me, son???

(And btw, I’m still pretending to be the Dad of my 7-year old son named Matthew, and if my son were to tell me that that IS what he is saying, I would give him a hearty chuckle which continuing to try to teach him the truth)

[LionHeart]

The repentance represents our action of turning on the windshield wiper.

[LionHeart]

The Savior said we are required to forgive everyone, that he will forgive whom he will forgive. Now, my question is, if we repent, truly ask for forgiveness in the way that we should, personally if possible, and then return to the very same activity that we needed to repent of, does that mean that we are repentent? Or is it a ruse to gain the sympathy of others?

I remember one of the most important steps of repentence AFTER confessing and making every possible restitution, is to turn from that sin and do it no more. If you return to that sin, are you back at the starting point? Or just at the step where you are supposed to do it no more?

It is my belief that it is not the sin that counts. It is our efforts put forth to bettering ourselves that counts. In many cases, someone knows they have a problem, but to change it is more than just an overnight thing. Many times "it requires a constant labor" to overcome it. And I believe that the Lord acknowledges our efforts to do so. So even though we repent, and we fall into the same temptations afterwards, our repentance is still genuine if we continue to put forth the effort to overcome our problem.

In the end, it is not what we have done that counts, but who we have become.

[Ray]

The repentance represents our action of turning on the windshield wiper.

Okay, I think I can see what you're telling me now, son.

We sin (it rains) and then repent from that sin (we activate the switch which we expect (hope with faith) will then activate the wiper motor and wipers) and God then forgives us for that sin (and power goes from the switch to the wiper motor which then sends power to the wipers which then remove the rain from our sight).

Well done, Matthew!!!

Repentance activates the power of forgiveness.

And btw, it only works that way because God set up the system that way, with power through Jesus Christ.

Or in other words, if all we only had a wiper switch, a wiper motor, and some wipers in our cars, with no power and connection between them and without everything put in its place, we would only have a few things in our cars that didn't do anything about the rain.

Right, Matthew?